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Stat bonus modifiers can erroneously be applied multiple times allowing stats to grow beyond intended values

pi2repsion

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pi2repsion

pi2repsion

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Posted

When I reached character level 5 I observed that Eder had considerably larger defensive stats than he was supposed to given his level, attributes, and equipment. I cannot say exactly when it happened as I do not save to separate save slots that often, but looking back through my saves, the following saves are the last from before this happened and the first from after it happened.

 

I am running the game on Windows.

 

Saves at dropbox due to forum attachment limit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5sgetpefdousrr/Eder_unexplained_stat_increase.rar?dl=0

 

 

The save before the discrepancy occurs is from temple of Eothan with about half of the first level cleared. Eder is level 4 and when stripped of all gear and buffs, his defenses are 36/53/31/39 - exactly what one would expect given his level and attributes.

 

The save after is from the Black Meadow, two days later. Eder is still level 4, but now when stripped of all gear and buffs, his defenses are 58/63/48/51 and he has also gained +1 perception and +1 resolve (which are responsible for 2 of the reflex and will increases).

 

The total unexplained increase is thus 20/10/15/10, +1 per, +1 res.

 

It is obvious to suspect a bug with respects to stacking stat bonuses that fails to get cleared, as that is a much too common bug in CRPGs, and the suspicion is supported by the stat-bonus gear Eder has been wearing during this time is Fulvano's Amulet (+5 reflex) and Minor Ring of Deflection (+5 deflection) as well, after finding it in the temple, Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil (+1 per, +1 res).

 

The observed discrepancy is thus a perfect match with the stats of Defender mode (with Wary Defender) and the three named items being added once and not cleared when they should be, so it seems very likely that the discrepancy happened at some time after the Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil helmet was picked up and equipped. That still leaves a considerable gap from that point of time in the temple to the Black Marsh save, but it is the closest I can narrow down the gap given the saves on hand.

 

 

...He does make an awesome tank, though, running around at level 5 with 96/73/65/63 defenses when defender mode is activated and he is wearing his equipment, but it is trivializing content.

  • Like 6

When I said death before dishonour, I meant it alphabetically.

219 answers to this question

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alvin_the_elf

alvin_the_elf

Posted
Posted

Awesome,

 

Thanks for the feedback, saves, outputs, and all that stuff. I think we nailed down the steps and I've added the issue to the database and we will work towards a fix for an upcoming update. Until then avoid save loads on Companions home maps.

 

Keep up the good work citizens

 

Hi,

 

Is this the patch that is coming this week or one that will come later? I'm asking because I want to know if I should start playing now or wait for this week's patch.

 

I finally made up my character. Only took 4 days, but still.... worth it. :)

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Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

It's very likely that they all used drag and drop OR just never loaded in Gilded Vale or Caed Nua (saving alone isn't enough for this bug to happen).

 

 

If this is the case...they are not very good testers.  Testers should be testing all possible uses of software.

 

The fact is that they missed major bugs that they should of caught....lets just hope they fix the issues fast and correctly

 

 

You have no idea about how programming and software QA works, right?

 

But let me explain, just so that we can move on:

If you bugtest certain features and elements of your game, you usually bugtest them in isolation for pure functionality, then test only the combinations that have strong cross-references. For example, in case of an inventory system, you check out the basic features: equipping, un-equipping, art changes, etc. ... you don't have the time to test all these routines in every possible combination with each other. You just check the most critical parts and then just assume that the rest works.

 

The Save/Load bug is particulary hard to detect in this case, as it requires multiple conditions to be true at the same time:

1) having the right characters

2) in the right place

3) with the right items

4) and after performing a completely unrelated task (saving and loading)

5) the bugtester actually checks the hero stats afterwards

 

If just one condition is false, the bug doesn't happen or gets by unnoticed.

Chances are the bugtester at some point actually did notice that the stats were changed, but couldn't backtrack it to saving and loading in the particular area. This is basicly the same as charging bike theft against unknown: it's extremely unlikely they can track it down if they don't have the critical information (in this case: location sensitive), especially with this very specific set of conditions. It just isn't going to happen.

 

Just like hundreds of players didn't even notice that their stats changed until they almost completed the game (at the same time complaining about it being way too easy on hard mode) it is very likely they encountered this bug in their playtesting, but marked it as "could not reproduce" as they were in the wrong area and moved on.

 

 

The MMO Archeage had a particular gamebreaking bug (and gamebreaking bugs are even more devestating in online games with a monthly subscription and micro transactions) that only had two conditions to reproduce that were spread silently among players until one player opened his mouth. And even that bug slipped under the radar, simply because without clear instructions to reproduce, it's hard to actually fix a bug in a complicated game.

And the bug I'm talking about was not only damaging from a gameplay perspective, but also damaging from a financial perspective, as it basicly allowed players to create an infinite amount of micro-transaction credits in the game. One would think that this is the most critical system for any MMO developer and that they would properly test it for any possible abuse scenario. But this wasn't the case. You just don't have the resources to catch everything.

Now again, compare this to the stat bug. This bug has 5(!) conditions to properly reproduce, not just 2.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
  • Like 4
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sparklecat

sparklecat

Posted
Posted

Not to mention that if the one person with their recent thread is correct and the problem is a corrupted file that doesn't get installed, the Raedric's Hold bug quite literally did not exist for the testers.

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Jazou

Jazou

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

PLEASE PROVIDE A HOTFIX FOR THIS ONE.

 

 

Dont make the mistake to wait for delivering one big update (1.03) to fix as many bugs as possible.

Instead please deliver hotfixes as soon as possible so that at least some bugs (or even only one) get fixed in short time.

 

Please. It's a really great game but especially this increasing stats bug is totally gamebreaking.

I don't think that anyone won't save e.g. in Gilded Vale. So probably every PoE gamer is affected by this bug which destroys the gameplay totally.

 

They already announced that update 1.03 will probably be released this week. And maybe they just need a few more hours or days to really make sure that their fix doesn't create different problems? It doesn't benefit anybody if they release a rushed hotfix that even causes more problems than it solves. Pe patient (yeah, I know, it's hard) and let them do their job, QA included. They know the problem and they work on it. There is nothing else they can do at this very moment than trying to deliver the best possible solution.

 

 

I'm just scared that the scheduled update 1.03 won't come this week because of many bugs that occured/got attention after the original announcement.

I don't want the upcoming update get delayed just because not "every" bug is already fixed.

 

In some situations it's better to satisfy the crowd step by step instead of waiting to make everyone happy at once. 

Edited by Jazou
  • 0
gingerjordan

gingerjordan

Posted
Posted

 

 

It's very likely that they all used drag and drop OR just never loaded in Gilded Vale or Caed Nua (saving alone isn't enough for this bug to happen).

 

 

If this is the case...they are not very good testers.  Testers should be testing all possible uses of software.

 

The fact is that they missed major bugs that they should of caught....lets just hope they fix the issues fast and correctly

 

 

You have no idea about how programming and software QA works, right?

 

But let me explain, just so that we can move on:

If you bugtest certain features and elements of your game, you usually bugtest them in isolation for pure functionality, then test only the combinations that have strong cross-references. For example, in case of an inventory system, you check out the basic features: equipping, un-equipping, art changes, etc. ... you don't have the time to test all these routines in every possible combination with each other. You just check the most critical parts and then just assume that the rest works.

 

The Save/Load bug is particulary hard to detect in this case, as it requires multiple conditions to be true at the same time:

1) having the right characters

2) in the right place

3) with the right items

4) and after performing a completely unrelated task (saving and loading)

5) the bugtester actually checks the hero stats afterwards

 

If just one condition is false, the bug doesn't happen or gets by unnoticed.

Chances are the bugtester at some point actually did notice that the stats were changed, but couldn't backtrack it to saving and loading in the particular area. This is basicly the same as charging bike theft against unknown: it's extremely unlikely they can track it down if they don't have the critical information (in this case: location sensitive), especially with this very specific set of conditions. It just isn't going to happen.

 

Just like hundreds of players didn't even notice that their stats changed until they almost completed the game (at the same time complaining about it being way too easy on hard mode) it is very likely they encountered this bug in their playtesting, but marked it as "could not reproduce" as they were in the wrong area and moved on.

 

 

The MMO Archeage had a particular gamebreaking bug (and gamebreaking bugs are even more devestating in online games with a monthly subscription and micro transactions) that only had two conditions to reproduce that were spread silently among players until one player opened his mouth. And even that bug slipped under the radar, simply because without clear instructions to reproduce, it's hard to actually fix a bug in a complicated game.

And the bug I'm talking about was not only damaging from a gameplay perspective, but also damaging from a financial perspective, as it basicly allowed players to create an infinite amount of micro-transaction credits in the game. One would think that this is the most critical system for any MMO developer and that they would properly test it for any possible abuse scenario. But this wasn't the case. You just don't have the resources to catch everything.

 

 

I actually work as a developer and work with a QA team and I really don't think that these types of bugs should be missed.  They are pretty major bugs that effect character stats and totally unbalance the game.

 

But anyway....we will have to disagree.  I think that they should of caught these bugs and you don't.

 

Lets just hope that they can fix correctly and in good time.

  • Like 1
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Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm just scared that the scheduled update 1.03 won't come this week because of many bugs that occured/got attention after the originally announcement.

I don't want the upcoming update get delayed just because not "every" bug is already fixed. In some situations it's better to satisfy the crowd step by step instead of waiting to make everyone happy at once. 

 

 

Fortunately, we already gathered almost all the critical information on how to perfectly reproduce almost any of the bugs. This makes it a lot easier for the devs to fix these bugs.

 

I have been programming mods for several games for almost a decade now and I can tell you that most bug reports done by players are next to useless, as they tend to leave out context-critical info. This is fortunately not the case here.

 

 

A bug report like "My character has more INT that he should have" is virtually useless for a dev, whereas a bug report like "If I equip item A, then get into a fight, drop my endurance below 50%, then kill the enemies, my INT raises permanently by two points. Confirmed happening for all other characters aswell." is basicly winning the lottery.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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sanpats

sanpats

Posted
Posted

I think my issue (as post here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73474-deflection-fortitude-reflex-will-what-determines-their-base-values/) is the bug people are flagging in this topic.

 

However, as far as I can tell, my party's attributes haven't changed, only their defenses. Does that align with what some folks are experiencing?

 

Thanks!

Possibly, it depend on the equipment you wear when save-load game in the recruiting area. Please read the first page.

  • 0
Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Posted
Posted

I think my issue (as post here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73474-deflection-fortitude-reflex-will-what-determines-their-base-values/) is the bug people are flagging in this topic.

 

However, as far as I can tell, my party's attributes haven't changed, only their defenses. Does that align with what some folks are experiencing?

 

Thanks!

 

If you don't have items equipped for the corresponding companions that boost stats, then yes, it's very likely that only the saves change (assuming you have the cloak that boosts those by 5 equipped on one of those chars).

  • 0
pi2repsion

pi2repsion

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

I'm just scared that the scheduled update 1.03 won't come this week because of many bugs that occured/got attention after the originally announcement.

I don't want the upcoming update get delayed just because not "every" bug is already fixed. In some situations it's better to satisfy the crowd step by step instead of waiting to make everyone happy at once. 

 

 

Fortunately, we already gathered almost all the critical information on how to perfectly reproduce almost any of the bugs. This makes it a lot easier for the devs to fix these bugs.

 

I have been programming mods for several games for almost a decade now and I can tell you that most bug reports done by players are next to useless, as they tend to leave out context-critical info. This is fortunately not the case here.

Yes, it is usually pretty obvious when reading player submitted bug reports concerning technical problems which are from players who are professional software developers or modders and which are not, but we must remember that everybody submitting bug reports in the first place are trying to be helpful within the limits of their experience, and as a developer myself I would always much rather receive nearly useless bug reports than no bug reports at all, since as infuriating as they can be to deal with, knowing that there is a problem in the first place is half the battle. :yes:

 

Too bad that the other half is the hard part, but well, you can't have everything.

When I said death before dishonour, I meant it alphabetically.

  • 0
LastSoloer

LastSoloer

Posted
Posted

 

 

I'm just scared that the scheduled update 1.03 won't come this week because of many bugs that occured/got attention after the originally announcement.

I don't want the upcoming update get delayed just because not "every" bug is already fixed. In some situations it's better to satisfy the crowd step by step instead of waiting to make everyone happy at once. 

 

 

Fortunately, we already gathered almost all the critical information on how to perfectly reproduce almost any of the bugs. This makes it a lot easier for the devs to fix these bugs.

 

I have been programming mods for several games for almost a decade now and I can tell you that most bug reports done by players are next to useless, as they tend to leave out context-critical info. This is fortunately not the case here.

Yes, it is usually pretty obvious when reading player submitted bug reports concerning technical problems which are from players who are professional software developers or modders and which are not, but we must remember that everybody submitting bug reports in the first place are trying to be helpful within the limits of their experience, and as a developer myself I would always much rather receive nearly useless bug reports than no bug reports at all, since as infuriating as they can be to deal with, knowing that there is a problem in the first place is half the battle. :yes:

 

Too bad that the other half is the hard part, but well, you can't have everything.

 

I found out that a certain item that increases +2 intelligence when above 50% endurance, stacks the int stat once you go down 50% endurace and recover it back to over 50%. As a Result my character got over 100 Intelligence.

 

This item is Drinking Horn of Moderation. Idk if you found out what causes the stat modification or not, or if this problem of mine is related or not, just wanted to share it here.

  • 0
Jazou

Jazou

Posted
Posted

I found out that a certain item that increases +2 intelligence when above 50% endurance, stacks the int stat once you go down 50% endurace and recover it back to over 50%. As a Result my character got over 100 Intelligence.

 

This item is Drinking Horn of Moderation. Idk if you found out what causes the stat modification or not, or if this problem of mine is related or not, just wanted to share it here.

 

 

 So. this happens even without saving/loading?  ;(

  • 0
LastSoloer

LastSoloer

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

I found out that a certain item that increases +2 intelligence when above 50% endurance, stacks the int stat once you go down 50% endurace and recover it back to over 50%. As a Result my character got over 100 Intelligence.

 

This item is Drinking Horn of Moderation. Idk if you found out what causes the stat modification or not, or if this problem of mine is related or not, just wanted to share it here.

 

 

 So. this happens even without saving/loading?  ;(

 

What do you mean? That item at least increases the stat on each fight u get under 50% endurance. If u save, your game saves your character with that "corrupted stat" at that point. . But it doesnt corrupt all the files. The bug actually works pretty nicely to be honest xD Its just the game adding stat over and over again without control.It Shouldnt be hard to fix.

 

If you load before your stat was increased by that item you are normal and good to go. I dont really understand your question. What the item does is to add intelligence +2 each time you get from below %50 endurance to  over 50% endurance, nt else pretty simple.

Edited by LastSoloer
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cw8

cw8

Posted
Posted

My Eder has 66 Deflection rating at level 4 with Wary Defender. With a big shield, he has like 82. Is that normal?

  • 0
sanpats

sanpats

Posted
Posted

 

Hey guys, check the link out! We can fix this bug without waiting for the patch and can continue to play now. :)

 

I tried, and it works, except figment's table lack the endurance (called stamina in the table) bonus, which can be faulty as well. I modified figment CT file to include the endurance bonus successfully. My chars are all fixed. I will try to upload my mod CT file here.

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wagnerferreira

wagnerferreira

Posted
Posted

Durance is with 4597% more damage!

I killed Adra Dragon with 1 hit. This bug really broke the gameplay. Will wait a patch  :banghead:  Sad.

  • 0
sanpats

sanpats

Posted
Posted (edited)

Durance is with 4597% more damage!

I killed Adra Dragon with 1 hit. This bug really broke the gameplay. Will wait a patch  :banghead:  Sad.

Why don't you use the fix I posted above?

Edited by sanpats
  • 0
dancingcrab

dancingcrab

Posted
Posted

I haven't really looked into your fix, but is there any chance it'll break the upcoming patch?

 

Thanks.

The Dude abides.

  • 0
Zornack

Zornack

Posted
Posted

 

 

Hey guys, check the link out! We can fix this bug without waiting for the patch and can continue to play now. :)

 

I tried, and it works, except figment's table lack the endurance (called stamina in the table) bonus, which can be faulty as well. I modified figment CT file to include the endurance bonus successfully. My chars are all fixed. I will try to upload my mod CT file here.

 

Sweet, will do, thanks! I was debating whether I would wit for the patch or restart, but it looks like I won't have to do either!

 

Quick question, though: does this also edit AoE % increase? Aloth's 1.1% AoE increase from his armor has been stacked a number of times in my save. 

  • 0
sanpats

sanpats

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Hey guys, check the link out! We can fix this bug without waiting for the patch and can continue to play now. :)

 

I tried, and it works, except figment's table lack the endurance (called stamina in the table) bonus, which can be faulty as well. I modified figment CT file to include the endurance bonus successfully. My chars are all fixed. I will try to upload my mod CT file here.

 

Sweet, will do, thanks! I was debating whether I would wit for the patch or restart, but it looks like I won't have to do either!

 

Quick question, though: does this also edit AoE % increase? Aloth's 1.1% AoE increase from his armor has been stacked a number of times in my save. 

 

CT file with AoERadiusMult (original CT file credit to tfigment):

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s9t5kc11orwjcau/PillarsOfEternity_1.0.2_figment_addenduranceandaoe_v2.CT?dl=0

  • Like 1

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