Stat bonus modifiers can erroneously be applied multiple times allowing stats to grow beyond intended values

[pi2repsion]

When I reached character level 5 I observed that Eder had considerably larger defensive stats than he was supposed to given his level, attributes, and equipment. I cannot say exactly when it happened as I do not save to separate save slots that often, but looking back through my saves, the following saves are the last from before this happened and the first from after it happened.

 

I am running the game on Windows.

 

Saves at dropbox due to forum attachment limit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5sgetpefdousrr/Eder_unexplained_stat_increase.rar?dl=0

 

 

The save before the discrepancy occurs is from temple of Eothan with about half of the first level cleared. Eder is level 4 and when stripped of all gear and buffs, his defenses are 36/53/31/39 - exactly what one would expect given his level and attributes.

 

The save after is from the Black Meadow, two days later. Eder is still level 4, but now when stripped of all gear and buffs, his defenses are 58/63/48/51 and he has also gained +1 perception and +1 resolve (which are responsible for 2 of the reflex and will increases).

 

The total unexplained increase is thus 20/10/15/10, +1 per, +1 res.

 

It is obvious to suspect a bug with respects to stacking stat bonuses that fails to get cleared, as that is a much too common bug in CRPGs, and the suspicion is supported by the stat-bonus gear Eder has been wearing during this time is Fulvano's Amulet (+5 reflex) and Minor Ring of Deflection (+5 deflection) as well, after finding it in the temple, Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil (+1 per, +1 res).

 

The observed discrepancy is thus a perfect match with the stats of Defender mode (with Wary Defender) and the three named items being added once and not cleared when they should be, so it seems very likely that the discrepancy happened at some time after the Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil helmet was picked up and equipped. That still leaves a considerable gap from that point of time in the temple to the Black Marsh save, but it is the closest I can narrow down the gap given the saves on hand.

 

 

...He does make an awesome tank, though, running around at level 5 with 96/73/65/63 defenses when defender mode is activated and he is wearing his equipment, but it is trivializing content.

[Tanred]

Another forum member (can't remember his username) reported that the stat-stacking bug also appears in areas where characters haven't been recruited (i.e. certain districts in Defiance Bay). I don't think there's a way to fully avoid this problem for the time being.

 

I agree. That's why I am checking all my characters stats upon loading a game in any new area for the first time.

[ISC]

Yeah, and my PC has 34 Intellect; pretty sure I didn't recruit her.

 

Putting the game aside until this is fixed, and really really hoping it fixes current saves as well.

 

But since this seems to be the same bug there must be some way to figure out when it happens to the PC as well. It is def not when saving in any area.

[Aesymnetes]

Bump!

 

I can only hope they will fix it retroactively.

 

To quote myself from two other threads:

 

"In my case the problem/ bug seems to be even more serious.

For no apparent reason, my defenses of Edér at lvl 4 are D:112 F:113 R:91 W:99.

I suppose it could be some kind of stacking regarding the defender stance..."

 

"There seems to be a problem/ bug with possibly stacking attribute items?

 

In my current playthrough the following happened at some point (maybe continuously):

 

- Aloth has 16 Might now. Should only be 13 (12 base + 1 Hermit´s Hat)

- Kana has 28 Intelligence now. Should only be 18 (17 base + 1 Kana´s Turban)"

[sparklecat]

 

Yeah, and my PC has 34 Intellect; pretty sure I didn't recruit her.

 

Putting the game aside until this is fixed, and really really hoping it fixes current saves as well.

 

But since this seems to be the same bug there must be some way to figure out when it happens to the PC as well. It is def not when saving in any area.

 

And I've had Kana with his turban in my party since before I noticed my AoEs going crazy, but he's only 1 Intellect over where he should be.  Maybe I'll go poke through my old saves, try to narrow down when this started.

 

 

eta: okay, first thought, it might be tied to the Drinking Horn of Moderation which is also bugged in other ways for ciphers; she's wearing both that and a helmet that increases her perception and resolve, and I just found a save where her intellect is up 2 from where it should be, but her perception and resolve are fine

 

eta2: and I've narrowed down when it first happened to between two saves 45 minutes apart...

 

in the Sanitarium.  Which is, incidentally, bugged in other ways and reloading the game where this problem first shows up made a bunch of wichts spawn around me that never appeared my actual time going through the place.  First save is after finding out in the basement that Azo is up to something and going back upstairs to report to the statue (upstairs area), second save is after going back down and killing the patients and constructs that attack you (downstairs area).

 

 

Devs and QA people, I'm going to PM one of you a link to a zip file with the relevant saves and such, since I can't upload files.

 

eta3: see below, I managed to isolate what in particular was causing my PC's intellect to increase like this; it is the horn, whenever she goes under 50% endurance in a fight

Edited March 30, 2015 by sparklecat

[Andre]

Did you have any +int gear on your PC to get 34 int? Because that's connected to the bug somehow.

 

But check my monk PC's health, I have no +health gear. I don't even know if it exists. (I do have a +1 CON item, but that would have to increase endurance as well...)

 

[sparklecat]

Yep, the Drinking Horn of Moderation gives +2 Intellect when you're above 50% endurance... I wonder if perhaps my endurance dipped under that in the fight between the two saves and it ended up reapplying the Intellect bonus without actually taking it off first?

 

brb testing

Edited March 30, 2015 by sparklecat

[Insolentius]

Every time someone reports this "health" bug, they're playing as a monk. I believe this specific bug is tied to that class.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Oh goddaaaaamm

[sparklecat]

YES.  Got it.  Drinking Horn of Moderation equipped, go into a fight with 34 Intellect, go under 50% endurance during the fight (at which point Intellect shows "properly" as 32), finish fight and regenerate endurance, Intellect now at 36.  Looks like when you go back up over 50% it's both... taking off the penalty and applying the bonus again, in a sense.

 

So that's one of the situations that causes this sort of thing tracked down, at least.

Edited March 30, 2015 by sparklecat

[Illuminaire]

Oh, that explains why my Eder has 97 deflection and 80+ Reflex/Fort/Will .

 

And I thought fighters are supposed to be that tanky =(

 

 

Would definitely explain why the game is much too easy on "Hard" difficulty. My barbarian gets shredded in comparison. I always let Eder tank in choke points (doorways etc.) and have 5 rangeds attacking from behind. Removed my rogue and barbarian because I found them useless and getting 2 shotted all the time.

 

Now I am tempted to restart the game, because I went though 80% of my progress with an invincible juggernaut =(

[Tanred]

Oh, that explains why my Eder has 97 deflection and 80+ Reflex/Fort/Will .

 

And I thought fighters are supposed to be that tanky =(

 

 

Would definitely explain why the game is much too easy on "Hard" difficulty. My barbarian gets shredded in comparison. I always let Eder tank in choke points (doorways etc.) and have 5 rangeds attacking from behind. Removed my rogue and barbarian because I found them useless and getting 2 shotted all the time.

 

Now I am tempted to restart the game, because I went though 80% of my progress with an invincible juggernaut =(

 

Yeah, I also thought that hard difficulty is too easy. Until I'd found that Eder's deflection is 30 points higher than it should be. Forced me to restart the game.

[sparklecat]

Andre, I don't know much about monks, but is there anything similar to what I just said about what's causing my PC's intellect to increase?  An ability or something giving you a temporary boost to your hp where it's being taken off again by some trigger and then putting it back up when the trigger no longer applies, so the bonus ends up stacking permanently over time?

Edited March 30, 2015 by sparklecat

[zephiris]

Sigh, that explains why Hardmode became easier by the time I cleared the later parts of Act 1.

I will confirm tonight on my characters, but I most likely have this too, as I save a lot of times and quickload as well.

Especially in the temple as I died many maaaaaaany times over and over again.

 

:< If this is true, I can't continue playing tonight which sucks!!

And I don't feel like starting over again, as I already did that 2 times (cuz of other (knowledge) issues)

Hope to see this fixed ASAP, until then I wont touch the game. (If affected) :S

[Andre]

Andre, I don't know much about monks, but is there anything similar to what I just said about what's causing my PC's intellect to increase?  An ability or something giving you a temporary boost to your hp where it's being taken off again by some trigger and then putting it back up when the trigger no longer applies, so the bonus ends up stacking permanently over time?

No, I don't think so. I went through all my spells/abilities/items. I have nothing that would actually add HP. Kana does have the triage talent which restores some health, but I remember having high amount of HP before recruiting him. I think I had around 400HP at level 2.

 

The only thing that I can think of that is monk specific is the wound mechanic. Basically you receive "wound" points after you lose HP. Maybe that somehow bugs out the health.

 

Also Insolentius who else reported this bug? I can't find anything. The only other mention is by McPartyson in this thread, his Edér has 827 HP at level 3. Check the previous page, one of the first posts.

 

I don't think this HP bug is the same thing as the stat stacking one.

[Insolentius]

 

Also Insolentius who else reported this bug? I can't find anything. The only other mention is by McPartyson in this thread, his Edér has 827 HP at level 3. Check the previous page, one of the first posts.

 

 

Maybe I read it on Codex, Reddit or NeoGAF... I can't recall. Too many bugs to juggle. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Insolentius

[MikeWiz]

Do we have starting stats for companions to compare?

 

I guess I'll use previous saves just to check.

[Tanred]

Do we have starting stats for companions to compare?

 

I guess I'll use previous saves just to check.

 

You can look here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72070-companions-builds-ouch/?p=1603571

 

And you can check the initial deflection stat for each class at the character creation screen when you start a new game.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Tanred

[Brutii]

I've been trying to recreate this bug in my game and It seems to me this only happens in "outside" areas like Gilded Vale or Caed Nua. When I go to the Temple of Eothas in Gilded Vale or inside the keep at Caed Nua I can't seem to recreate the bug. I'm not 100% sure on this, because it needs allot more testing, for all I know it could still affect your companions at other "inside" locations but I am gonna assume it's allot less buggy to save "inside" then saving "outside".

 

 

 

*EDIT* Typo.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Brutii

[pi2repsion]

I've been trying to recreate this bug in my game and It seems to me this only happens in "outside" areas like Gilded Vale or Caed Nua. When I go to the Temple of Eothas in Gilded Vale or inside the keep at Caed Nua I can't seem to recreate the bug. I'm not 100% sure on this, because it needs allot more testing, for all I know it could still affect your companions at other "inside" locations but I am gonna assume it's allot less buggy to save "inside" then saving "outside".

This comes as absolutely no surprise, as the temple of Eothas is a different zone from Gilded Vale, where Eder is recruited, and the keep of Caed Nua is a different zone from Caed Nua, where Kana is recruited. There is no "inside" or "outside" in either place as far as the code is concerned, just different zones linked by different zone transitions.

Edited March 30, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Tanred]

I've been trying to recreate this bug in my game and It seems to me this only happens in "outside" areas like Gilded Vale or Caed Nua. When I go to the Temple of Eothas in Gilded Vale or inside the keep at Caed Nua I can't seem to recreate the bug. I'm not 100% sure on this, because it needs allot more testing, for all I know it could still affect your companions at other "inside" locations but I am gonna assume it's allot less buggy to save "inside" then saving "outside".

 

 

 

*EDIT* Typo.

As far as the save/load bug is relating to companions only it seems that the best "safe" location for loading a game is any location where you haven't recruited anyone. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Tanred

[Insolentius]

Can anyone replicate this bug in open areas in Defiance Bay? I haven't reached that location yet, but someone mentioned that the bug occurs there as well.

 

Here's the post...

 

 

Sadly I don't think that's it: I got the bug with Durance in one of the Defiance Bay maps.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Insolentius

[sparklecat]

Well, Pallegina's outside in Defiance Bay, in Ondra's Gift; maybe that's the area they're referring to.

[Cronstintein]

Before anyone restarts over this, you can fix attributes with console commands.  Either by unlocking them via "iroll20s" or downloading the IEmod (if you care about achievements)

[Insolentius]

This also affects Aloth's Leather Armor with the Overseeing effect (extra 10% AoE).

 

After quicksaving and quickloading around 15 times in front of the Black Hound Inn, this is the result...

 

 

The red circle is the default AoE.

 

Also, his defenses while wearing the Minor Cloak of Protection during the same test...

 

 

I really don't feel like playing this game if this bug is gonna force me to constanly check the character sheets to see whether one or multiple stats have ballooned in the meantime.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Insolentius

[Brutii]

 

This comes as absolutely no surprise, as the temple of Eothas is a different zone from Gilded Vale, where Eder is recruited, and the keep of Caed Nua is a different zone from Caed Nua, where Kana is recruited. There is no "inside" or "outside" in either place as far as the code is concerned, just different zones linked by different zone transitions.

 

 

 

 

As far as the save/load bug is relating to companions only it seems that the best "safe" location for loading a game is any location where you haven't recruited anyone. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarfication guys, I was slightly confused about the same thing Insolentius mentions below, it allready got answered by Sparklecat. So yeah definitely no saving/loading in the zones where you have recruited companions. Cheers!

 

 

 

 

Can anyone replicate this bug in open areas in Defiance Bay? I haven't reached that location yet, but someone mentioned that the bug occurs there as well.

 

Here's the post...

 

 

Sadly I don't think that's it: I got the bug with Durance in one of the Defiance Bay maps.

 

 

Well, Pallegina's outside in Defiance Bay, in Ondra's Gift; maybe that's the area they're referring to.