Which Attributes for which class? And how high?

[Kordanor]

I am wondering which attributes are actually useful for which class. While for some attributes it seems pretty obvious, other attributes either seem to be gimped now according to videos or have very limited usability.

 

So what I will do now is to list the attributes and the description from the Wiki and ask my questions about them. (Haven't played the Beta)

 

Might

±3% Damage

±3% Healing

±2 Fortitude

Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.

This one is probably the most obvious one. I don't see any class not massively profiting fromt hat one. Maybe there are classis which have mainly spells like buffs which don't scale with attributes? But I am not aware of that.

 

Constitution

±3% Endurance

±3% Health

±2 Fortitude

Constitution is a combination of the character's overall health and stamina. Although it is not used much in interactions, it is sometimes checked to withstand pain or endure a physically taxing ordeal. In combat, it affects maximum Health and Endurance and contributes to the Fortitude defense.

In this case it's just the question: Who is getting hurt the most? Probably a matter of how you play the class. But those characters you keep in the back don't need constitution I guess.

 

Dexterity

±3% Action Speed

±2 Reflex

Dexterity is an abstraction of a character's hand-eye coordination, balance, and overall grace. In interactions, it can be used for sleight-of-hand and fast reactions. In combat, it affects the character's Action Speed with all attacks, spells, and abilities and contributes to the Reflexes defense.

According to

You don't even get one extra attack by speed with 9 dex of difference within 38 seconds. So I don't see a point in taking this skill for any class.

 

Perception

±3 Interrupt

±1 Deflection

±2 Reflex

Perception represents a character's senses as well as their instinctive ability to pick up on details. In interactions, it can be used to catch someone in a lie, to make an observant comment about their appearance, or to notice something happening in the background. In combat, it grants a bonus to Accuracy with all attacks, contributes to the Reflexes defense, and increases the Range of all non-melee spells, abilities, and attacks.

Another skill where I don't see any use for any class. Maybe if you make a pure "interruption" based build. But I am pretty sure that such a build wouldn't be really useful. So who should take this attribute?

 

Intellect

±6% Area of Effect

± 5% Duration

± 1 Will

Intellect represents a character's logic and reasoning capabilities. In interactions, it can be useful for deduction, sudden realizations, and problem-solving. In combat, it contributes to the Deflection and Will defenses and influences the sizes of Areas of Effect.

Intellect seems to be one of the more useful skills again. Probably mages or specific builds which focus on AoE effects. Enverxis used it for his

, so does it have an effect on Blunderbusses in general?

Can you name a couple of classes which have viable AoE options?

Of course it also increases duration, so it might also be interesting for classes which are based heavily on buffs/debuffs.

 

Resolve

±3 Concentration

±1 Deflection

± 2 Will

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances. In combat, it helps characters maintain Concentration, increases the durations of spells and abilities, and contributes to the Will defense.

Probably the Attribute where I have the least imagination what it is good for. It says in the text that it increases the durations of spells and abilities but doesn't say so in the bonus section. In addition Intellect is already doing that apparently (or is that an error in the wiki?)

Now what is concentration good for? I guess the casters need to stay in the back anyways and ideally don't get interrupted all the time anyways. Or is there one class which has so long spells in general that it's worth to take this spell to avoid the possibility to get interrupted there?

 

 

In addition according to the wiki 10 is the base value, and higher/lower values will actually start modifying your character. Is the effect for each additional point somewhat exponentional or rather linear? I mean does putting 9 instead of 10 points into Resolve for example hurt as much as putting 8 instead of 9 into it?

As far as I understand the saving throw system the first 5 points difference in a defense value actually "convert" a 5% miss chance into a 5% crit chance (150% of dmg instead of 0%). And the next 45 points would convert a glancing blow to a critical blow (150% instead of 50%). So as long as you are already so low that you don't get the 5% miss chance, it doesn't really matter anymore if you are 10 points or 15 points below. Each additional point will hurt the same way. And if you are playing on Path of the Damned difficulty, which includes that enemies have 50% higher attributes you will be beyond that point anyways. Or do I miss something?

[Namutree]

The wiki is useless and out dated. Now moving on:

 

MIG: Useful for any build focusing on DPS. Obviously so... Not much to say here.

 

CON: Useful mostly for classes with high health and endurance since it raises by percent rather than integer. A must for any tank build.

 

DEX: The value of DEX changes depending on what kind of build you're using. If you're not using armor than your recovery time between attacks is very low and the value of DEX is high as you'll be attacking more often. Also, DEX also increases how quickly you'll drink potions and what-not so it has defensive value as well as offensive value.

 

PER: Perception right now is a little under-powered; it can be useful against enemies with slow attacks (since interrupting a slow but powerful attack is helpful), but it needs a minor buff. The deflection bonus it has can also be useful for tanks as deflection is the most important defense stat.

 

INT: It's pretty dang good, and nearly every build should use it. Most classes take advantage of either it's AoE effect or it's ability duration boost.

 

RES: The worst attribute in my opinion. Like PER it needs a boost. Only useful for certain tank builds. The concentration bonus is basically meaningless and Obsidian really needs to buff the concentration bonus by +1. The only value it has it that it grants a deflection bonus and a will bonus.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Namutree

[Veevoir]

Note that PER and RES most likely be heavily used in diaolgue. Res is used for lying/"mental intimidation" and PER for obvious stuff.

As for DEX - in the video the slowest weapon in game is used. The more attacks per minute you make the more you gain from dex.

[Luckmann]

All Casters: Max INT followed by MGT or DEX.

Tanks: Max RES followed by MGT or INT.

Everyone else: Max MGT, DEX or INT, or a combination.

 

Done.

 

Speaking specifically for classes, you should max about what you'd expect, it's pretty clear-cut. There are some non-intuitive combinations, though, for example Barbarians does amazingly with extreme Intellect, and unless you're building a very, very tanky Paladin (and nothing else) you will do poorly with Resolve.

 

Note that PER and RES most likely be heavily used in diaolgue. Res is used for lying/"mental intimidation" and PER for obvious stuff.

 

As for DEX - in the video the slowest weapon in game is used. The more attacks per minute you make the more you gain from dex.

There's really no reason to assume that PER or RES will be used more in dialogue than anything else, especially if we take scripted interactions into account.

[Kordanor]

Thanks for your answers so far!

 

What about the very last part I wrote? Is it actually useful to bring all values to 10? Even the ones not actually needed for the class? Or is it fine to just keep them at like 3? Especially on Path of the Damned?

 

About Dex: In the comments of the video Enverxis points out that the problem is also that Damage reduction is an absolute number and not a relative one.

 

So if you hit once with 20 dmg vs 10 armor you do 10 dmg as 10 is absorbed.

If you hit with 12 dmg vs 10 armor twice, your net damage is still just 4.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Kordanor

[Luckmann]

Thanks for your answers so far!

 

What about the very last part I wrote? Is it actually useful to bring all values to 10? Even the ones not actually needed for the class? Or is it fine to just keep them at like 3? Especially on Path of the Damned?

 

About Dex: In the comments of the video Enverxis points out that the problem is also that Damage reduction is an absolute number and not a relative one.

 

So if you hit once with 20 dmg vs 10 armor you do 10 dmg as 10 is absorbed.

If you hit with 12 dmg vs 10 armor twice, your net damage is still just 4.

 

...I'm not sure how that's "about Dex", but yes, that is correct.

[Odd Hermit]

The wiki is useless and out dated. Now moving on:

 

MIG: Useful for any build focusing on DPS. Obviously so... Not much to say here.

 

CON: Useful mostly for classes with high health and endurance since it raises by percent rather than integer. A must for any tank build.

 

DEX: The value of DEX changes depending on what kind of build you're using. If you're not using armor than your recovery time between attacks is very low and the value of DEX is high as you'll be attacking more often. Also, DEX also increases how quickly you'll drink potions and what-not so it has defensive value as well as offensive value.

 

PER: Perception right now is a little under-powered; it can be useful against enemies with slow attacks (since interrupting a slow but powerful attack is helpful), but it needs a minor buff. The deflection bonus it has can also be useful for tanks as deflection is the most important defense stat.

 

INT: It's pretty dang good, and nearly every build should use it. Most classes take advantage of either it's AoE effect or it's ability duration boost.

 

RES: The worst attribute in my opinion. Like PER it needs a boost. Only useful for certain tank builds. The concentration bonus is basically meaningless and Obsidian really needs to buff the concentration bonus by +1. The only value it has it that it grants a deflection bonus and a will bonus.

 

I have used low con tank builds with success, they work fine you just have to rest slightly more frequently as the tank's health wears down. Deflection and DR are the main source of mitigation anyway. Con just adds a bit of padding. There are a few enemies that get through deflection/DR more frequently that extra stam helps with, but I just use beetle shell on those fights or some extra healing.

 

I think Con is just the worst attribute overall.

[Azmodiuz]

 

The wiki is useless and out dated. Now moving on:

 

MIG: Useful for any build focusing on DPS. Obviously so... Not much to say here.

 

CON: Useful mostly for classes with high health and endurance since it raises by percent rather than integer. A must for any tank build.

 

DEX: The value of DEX changes depending on what kind of build you're using. If you're not using armor than your recovery time between attacks is very low and the value of DEX is high as you'll be attacking more often. Also, DEX also increases how quickly you'll drink potions and what-not so it has defensive value as well as offensive value.

 

PER: Perception right now is a little under-powered; it can be useful against enemies with slow attacks (since interrupting a slow but powerful attack is helpful), but it needs a minor buff. The deflection bonus it has can also be useful for tanks as deflection is the most important defense stat.

 

INT: It's pretty dang good, and nearly every build should use it. Most classes take advantage of either it's AoE effect or it's ability duration boost.

 

RES: The worst attribute in my opinion. Like PER it needs a boost. Only useful for certain tank builds. The concentration bonus is basically meaningless and Obsidian really needs to buff the concentration bonus by +1. The only value it has it that it grants a deflection bonus and a will bonus.

 

I have used low con tank builds with success, they work fine you just have to rest slightly more frequently as the tank's health wears down. Deflection and DR are the main source of mitigation anyway. Con just adds a bit of padding. There are a few enemies that get through deflection/DR more frequently that extra stam helps with, but I just use beetle shell on those fights or some extra healing.

 

I think Con is just the worst attribute overall.

 

 

not if you choose to play a barbarian... hell, don't even need deflection after you use 18+ con

[Heijoushin]

Great thread. I've been wondering about this as well. After years of using the old D&D system, some of these aren't so clear. I hope the final version of the game will contain useful tool tips.

 

MIG & CON are the easiest to understand. Let's talk about the rest (have patience with us, we haven't played the beta!)

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

You say INT is good for everyone? Do even non-spellcasters have abilities that you would want extended? I mean, aren't fighters abilities all things like "knockdown" which are instant?

 

Is there anything good for ranged attacks? Like, normally, PER sounds like something you're give your archer. But I take it this is not the case? It just helps with defense?

 

You say the concentration bonus for RES is useless? Do wizards not get interupted so much in this game?

[Namutree]

 

 

I have used low con tank builds with success, they work fine you just have to rest slightly more frequently as the tank's health wears down. Deflection and DR are the main source of mitigation anyway. Con just adds a bit of padding. There are a few enemies that get through deflection/DR more frequently that extra stam helps with, but I just use beetle shell on those fights or some extra healing.

 

I think Con is just the worst attribute overall.

 

The value of CON varies on the class you are using, but it is a huge help when you use a class with lots of health/endurance. RES is easily the worst attribute overall; followed by PER.

[Namutree]

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

 

 

You say INT is good for everyone? Do even non-spellcasters have abilities that you would want extended? I mean, aren't fighters abilities all things like "knockdown" which are instant?

 

Knockdown is instant, but how long they stay down (and thus prone) is based on your INT. So yes, INT is good for every class.

 

 

 

You say the concentration bonus for RES is useless? Do wizards not get interupted so much in this game?

Nobody gets interrupted much and being interrupted isn't that big a deal anyway. It doesn't cancel your spell/ability if you were interrupted while using it; it simply delays the said spell/ability.

 

EDIT: Interrupt does force a spell or ability to need to be re-used, but it isn't considered "lost" like it would in say, an IE game. Also interrupt ends engagement, but that's not a big deal really.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2015 by Namutree

[Heijoushin]

Thank you for answering m(_ _)m

[Giantevilhead]

How exactly does dexterity work? How is it calculated? Does it just reduce the time it takes to perform an action or does it speed up how fast an "action meter" fills up? Is there a recovery time that it can't reduce? Is there a minimum action speed?

 

Like if I use a weapon hits every 2 seconds on a character with 20 Dex, does that mean the weapon will hit every 1.4 seconds? Or are there other variables and calculations involved?

Edited March 20, 2015 by Giantevilhead

[Namutree]

How exactly does dexterity work? How is it calculated? Does it just reduce the time it takes to perform an action or does it speed up how fast an "action meter" fills up? Is there a recovery time that it can't reduce? Is there a minimum action speed?

 

Like if I use a weapon hits every 2 seconds on a character with 20 Dex, does that mean the weapon will hit every 1.4 seconds? Or are there other variables and calculations involved?

Dexterity speeds up your attack's speed, not the time between separate attacks.

 

If I swing a mace and the attack animation is 5 seconds long; than 20 (+10% attack speed) Dex will make that attack 4.5 seconds long, but the delay between attacks is unchanged. The only way to reduce the delay between attacks is to not wear armor, or at least use lighter armor.

[gkathellar]

Dexterity does help with firearm reload times, note.

[Tartantyco]

 

The wiki is useless and out dated. 

 

You can help with that, you know?

[Namutree]

 

 

The wiki is useless and out dated. 

 

You can help with that, you know?

 

I'd rather wait until after release. Don't know what changes have been made.

[Namutree]

Dexterity does help with firearm reload times, note.

Yeah, I should have said "action speed" to be precise.

[Judicator]

 

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

Doesn't DEX also affect accuracy? Or am I wrong? Because if it doesn't you can just slap on heavy armor on a tank char and pump STR and CON without caring too much for DEX.

[Namutree]

 

 

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

Doesn't DEX also affect accuracy?

Nope.

[Judicator]

 

 

 

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

Doesn't DEX also affect accuracy?

Nope.

 

So I guess that means offenisive characters are going to need to pump the hell of out of Dex for action speed, while tanks are going to have moderate Dex.

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

 

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

Doesn't DEX also affect accuracy?

Nope.

 

So I guess that means offenisive characters are going to need to pump the hell of out of Dex for action speed, while tanks are going to have moderate Dex.

 

 

Tanks need no Dex. In general, it's easy to avoid penalties in PoE and often you may not even want to dump stats below 10, because you might just not want the penalties, but if one wants to, Dex is definitely something you can just throw out the window completely as a Tank.

[Judicator]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So DEX is good only if you don't wear heavy armour? So a monk might have lots of DEX but not a fighter? (or wait, do monks wear armour in this game?)

 

Anyone can wear armor and yes, DEX's value is directly tied to whether or not you're using armor. The less armor you have, the more often you attack. The more you attack the more you gain from the boost in attack speed.

 

 

Doesn't DEX also affect accuracy?

Nope.

 

So I guess that means offenisive characters are going to need to pump the hell of out of Dex for action speed, while tanks are going to have moderate Dex.

 

 

Tanks need no Dex. In general, it's easy to avoid penalties in PoE and often you may not even want to dump stats below 10, because you might just not want the penalties, but if one wants to, Dex is definitely something you can just throw out the window completely as a Tank.

 

But wouldn't that make you slow as hell? I know a tank's main role is to, well, tank but you'd think they still need to deal some decent damage to keep the enemy locked down?

[Namutree]

But wouldn't that make you slow as hell? I know a tank's main role is to, well, tank but you'd think they still need to deal some decent damage to keep the enemy locked down?

 

 

Tanks need no Dex. In general, it's easy to avoid penalties in PoE and often you may not even want to dump stats below 10, because you might just not want the penalties, but if one wants to, Dex is definitely something you can just throw out the window completely as a Tank.

 

 

Simply wearing heavy armor makes you slow as hell. At that point it wouldn't matter much how faster your attack speed is as the recovery time between attacks is huge and unaffected by DEX.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Namutree

[Tartantyco]

Tanks don't really need to deal damage. They should soak it up, keep enemies tied up, and disrupt them. While they can pack a punch on the frontline with the relevant abilities, major DPS is usually better served on other party members.