Armours in the beta - it's a jungle out there

[IndiraLightfoot]

Having begun to play around with various armours, I am overwhelmed.

It's not just DR, that's for certain!

First impression is like What the...?

 

Pierce, Corrode, Crush, Slash, Banana, Tinky-Winky... You name it.

 

And what benefits my character most: a plate mail or a fine brigandine mail, for instance?

Both 12 DR and -50% recovery, but then, it's like mind-meld.

 

Any learned players out there who can bring clarity?

 

 

[Odd Hermit]

There are different damage types. The basic DR of an armor reduces damage taken by that much. The other values are for the exceptions.

 

So if you've got DR 12, Pierce 15, Crush 6, Burn 2  The armor is better against piercing, worse against crushing and burning.

 

Plate for example, IIRC, is better against Piercing than Brigandine, but weaker against Shock.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[IndiraLightfoot]

Odd Hermit, you're a life saver!

 

I had no idea. Now it all makes sense. Very well explained too. If this wasn't a beta forum, I'd say, this info ought to be stickied.

[Sensuki]

Tank - plate mail (or Fine Brigandine if you're facing enemies with crush ... most are slash or pierce or some other DR though.

Everyone else - no armor, or something minimal so their DPS isn't decreased too much - eg. Fine Padded or the Night Runner Leather Armor.

 

Those alternate DR types are a percentage as well, not flat numbers so if an armor has 15 DR base DR and 7 burn DR, the 7 will actually be 7.5

Edited March 15, 2015 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

If DR types are percentages and not integer values, what's the equation for Burn 7 turning into 7.5, the base DR being 15?

[Sensuki]

50% ?

 

Various UI elements just round the number down. The combat log shows the correct value.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

Sounds a bit weird and opaque to me.

 

Let's take a more extreme value.

We still have 15 DR base value, and then Shock 2.

Would that just not be DR 2 vs Shock?

 

If not, what does the percentage calculation look like?

[Sensuki]

Yeah they could do a much better job at explaining mechanics through the UI - I mentioned it in a bug report about the description for DR. It hasn't been corrected yet though.

 

 

 

If not, what does the percentage calculation look like?

 

You're looking at it the wrong way man, put on your maths cap

you just do 15 * x%, and then the value is rounded up or down by the UI so you don't know that it's a decimal.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

I'm feeling particularly daft right now, hehe.

 

Damage Reduction (or "DR") means this, no?

When an attack hits, there is one primary means of mitigating damage: Damage Reduction. Damage Reduction value is usually derived from armour, but many creatures have natural DR or can raise it through the use of magic. Abilities, Talents, or other equipment.

Damage Reduction is subtracted directly from all incoming damage, just like Odd Hermit mentioned.

So, for instance, an attack that initially does 20 damage to a target with 7 DR would be reduced to 13.

 

This means, in my example, if someone attacked me with a crush weapon for 20 damage and I have plate mail DR 15:

I merely take 5 damage (no percentages shown UI-wise).

And if that plate has Shock 2, and the damage of 20 was indeed shock, I'd sustain 18 (almost the full amount, still no percentage, or?)

 

 

I found this too:

"Damage will never be reduced below 20% of the initial incoming amount. When this minimum value is hit, you will see a MIN message in the combat log on the attack line.

Note that many suits of armour and many creatures will grant different Damage Reduction values against the different Damage Types. Lower DRs protect against less damage, making the target more vulnerable to attacks of that type."

[Sedrefilos]

Sorry for jumping in and going off-topic but I *LOVE* the word "armour" instead of "armor"!  That's is. Carry on. Don't mind me

[Sensuki]

IndiraLightFoot

 

Read this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70820-poorly-explained-mechanics-in-the-cyclopedia/

[IndiraLightfoot]

Holy crap! For such a basic and important stat in the game, it's like that humungous office in that Kafka novel: utter confusion.

[wanderon]

Forget all that number crunching - the game will do all those calculations for you - meanwhile just choose the armor that looks or feels or sounds the best for each character - after all isn't this the game where all options are viable? 

[Sensuki]

But if the mechanics are not explained clearly, how are you supposed to make informed decisions ?

[wanderon]

But if the mechanics are not explained clearly, how are you supposed to make informed decisions ?

 

That's my point if all builds are viable there is no need to fret over the numbers - ignorance is bliss - choose armor by color coordination and weapons by kewlness factor - make sure you have decent lore and int for dialoge choices and roll with it -  

[Sensuki]

Some people pick things because of how they work mechanically / because of the numbers - rather than roleplaying it.

[wanderon]

Some people pick things because of how they work mechanically / because of the numbers - rather than roleplaying it.

 

True but it seems like a lot of extra work to me - and then there's MATH to deal with   

[Voss]

Some people pick things because of how they work mechanically / because of the numbers - rather than roleplaying it.

aside here- I've never understood why this is supposed to be a disconnect. These characters are risking their lives repeatedly- knowing how things work and what can save their lives is good role playing, unless the character is an inbred simpleton. They won't express it in terms of metagame numbers, but they'll know that spiders poison and plate is bad against the Lightning bug, and so on. Ignoring the system because of Real Roleplaying is absolute nonsense. Edited March 15, 2015 by Voss

[wanderon]

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information. 

[Luckmann]

I roleplay, and I find it an utterly ridiculous premise that because I roleplay and because everything is "viable", my character would settle for anything less than what works the best.

In-universe, the characters would know what would be best, based on available information and experience. If anything, it's a disconnect between roleplaying and mechanics when you are unable to make the most reasonable of calls, because math.

[gkathellar]

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information. 

 

There is a difference between "obsessing," and switching to a suit of armor that's better against cold If you knows you're going into a cave full of Ice Spiders^TM.

[Voss]

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information. 

Of course you don't.  You don't have to obsessed to be knowledgable, nor do you need encyclopedic knowledge of every last creature to know what works best in the general case or what not to use in specific cases.

 

Do you go put on plate mail to walk around golf courses in a lightning storm?  No?  You must be obsessed.  

[wanderon]

 

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information. 

 

There is a difference between "obsessing," and switching to a suit of armor that's better against cold If you knows you're going into a cave full of Ice Spiders^TM.

 

 

Is that the cave with the sign at the entrance - beware of Ice spiders? How many suits of armor should your average adventurer carry "just in case"?

[Luckmann]

 

 

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information. 

 

There is a difference between "obsessing," and switching to a suit of armor that's better against cold If you knows you're going into a cave full of Ice Spiders^TM.

 

 

Is that the cave with the sign at the entrance - beware of Ice spiders? How many suits of armor should your average adventurer carry "just in case"?

 

 

If they had access to a limitless stash that could be accessed everywhere?

 

Is that a trick question?

[Voss]

 

 

You don't have to ignore the system to avoid obsessing over it nor does your character need to be an inbred simpleton to not be aware of the detailed damage abilities of every creature in the world and choose his armor based on that information.

 

There is a difference between "obsessing," and switching to a suit of armor that's better against cold If you knows you're going into a cave full of Ice Spiders^TM.

Is that the cave with the sign at the entrance - beware of Ice spiders? How many suits of armor should your average adventurer carry "just in case"?

Oh dear. It's against RP to scout now too?

 

Quiet feet, sneaky feet. Yep, looks like ice spiders in this cave made of ice. What should we do, boss?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Voss