Racial/Culture bonus poll

[Headbomb]

Should be pretty self explanatory. Only select one race in the second part of the poll, it couldn't support 13 options, so I had to break it down in two.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Headbomb

[Voss]

Only one?  They are almost all entirely bad, circumstantial bonuses against very specific things and shoddy bonuses for losing fights.  

Hearth orlan is one of the best, and island aumaua is useful if you're trying to do very specific things.  The rest might as well be garbage.  I'd rather just have more stat bonuses, since those objectively matter all the time.

 

 

So other:  racial stat bonus like now, culture stat bonuses like now, but more stat bonuses to replace the largely worthless side bonuses

 

But if I have to pick a race... death godlike, as it is exactly backwards.  Damage bonus should be against high health enemies (though probably smaller), as a bonus against a critter almost defeated already doesn't have much value.  

Edited March 14, 2015 by Voss

[Headbomb]

I'm fine with a circumstancial bonus, but I can't see myself ever liking +stats if you're losing a fight. Nature godlike gets the my worst bonus award, and I'd pick the human side bonus as a second worse. I quite love the moon godlike bonus though. The aura of healing when you're losing... that's something that legimitely affects how the fight is going.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Headbomb

[Voss]

True, moon is an easy buff.  I forgot about that one.  But I dislike it for being too easy to cheese.  Moon Monk for extra benefits!

[Cantousent]

I dunno. I think the human one is actually pretty lame. At least if I remember it right. I dislike bonuses that kick in for things going south because the idea is to build characters who work sufficiently that you can keep things from going south in the first place. Better to have something that helps you win faster rather than lose slower in my opinion.

 

EDIT: Although, in my admittedly mostly ignorant of the beta party in the party thread, I used Moonlike for a member.

[Odd Hermit]

Nature is hands down the worst.

 

You can't wear helms, and your racial is only active when you're low health and it's not that substantial anyway.

 

 

As for culture bonus, we get skills and an attribute from culture already so I was confused and picked other.

[Quadrone]

I voted Nature Godlike for the reasons Odd Hermit already pointed out.

But the actual answer would be all Godlike, none of their bonuses are really any better then the others and certainly don't counteract the added downside of not being able to wear helmets.

[Sensuki]

I don't like the "triggers at 50% Endurance" ones. The Human one is alright though.

[gkathellar]

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far, so I'll see if I can sum up:

• Godlike bonuses are bad, with the exception of Moon, and that's still not good enough to make up for the loss of helms. Personally, I'd say that Godlike bonuses have to scale with level, or else they will naturally fall behind helms.
• The bonuses in general are absurdly situational - special mention goes to the island aumaua ability in particular, which is downright insulting. But what's worse is that they're mostly boring. I just ... find it difficult to care about most of them (except Wood Elf and Hearth Orlan).
• Abilities that have nothing to do with Endurance that trigger at certain Endurance percentages kind of feels like a class or talent thing, and inappropriate on races.

To my mind, races and cultures both need a group of several small features (to make them feel distinct), and one significant (but passive) feature each so you can get a little mileage out of them.

 

As for stat bonuses? As they're insignificant unless you max the stat, I find myself not caring at all about them. I'd rather have geegaws and shinies.

[Sensuki]

The Island Aumuaua one is actually good, IMO. It rules for gun builds.

[Macsen]

I don't understand the dislike for the Death Godlike.  1.2 extra damage what's not to like?  The question is when does it trigger (what is low endurance)... if it's anything under half it's amazing, if it's like 5% endurance left then it'd be crap.

I dislike the human one, nature one and the more rare circumstances ones like pale elf and arboreal dwarf.  For me I can think of builds in which I would use all the rest, though some are much more useful than others.

[Odd Hermit]

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far, so I'll see if I can sum up:

• Godlike bonuses are bad, with the exception of Moon, and that's still not good enough to make up for the loss of helms. Personally, I'd say that Godlike bonuses have to scale with level, or else they will naturally fall behind helms.
• The bonuses in general are absurdly situational - special mention goes to the island aumaua ability in particular, which is downright insulting. But what's worse is that they're mostly boring. I just ... find it difficult to care about most of them (except Wood Elf and Hearth Orlan).
• Abilities that have nothing to do with Endurance that trigger at certain Endurance percentages kind of feels like a class or talent thing, and inappropriate on races.

To my mind, races and cultures both need a group of several small features (to make them feel distinct), and one significant (but passive) feature each so you can get a little mileage out of them.

 

As for stat bonuses? As they're insignificant unless you max the stat, I find myself not caring at all about them. I'd rather have geegaws and shinies.

 

Island Aumaua is one of the best for gun collectors. It's a bit niche but one of the most substantial ones for the builds it is good for. I used an Island Aumaua Rogue with 3 Blunderbusses(I got lucky and found an extra from random loot), being able to quickly use Blinding and 2 Crippling strikes w/Penetrating Shots from Blunderbuss is hilarious. Especially with 21 Might, haha.

 

Coastal is good too, for melee, since prone attacks are quite common on other melee enemies.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Macsen]

Also what bonuses can you get on helms?  An intelligence bonus would make taking the Godlike races a lot less attractive.

[Osvir]

I like the bonuses, they provide their own little form of utility.

Get Endurance potions on the Godlikes and their Racial gets much more useful more often (It'll trigger more than once during a fight at the very least).

During my Solo Rogue as a Fire Godlike I engaged some fights (duelist). And with stuff like Blinding Strikes and Crippling Strikes, enemies can barely hit you, and if you're low on Endurance, your racial will explode several times (it also heightens DR by 3?).

I can see how a Moon Godlike can sync really well with other Godlikes for this reason.

These are the ones I've barely touched:
- Mountain & Boreal Dwarf's (Well, BB Fighter is a Mountain Dwarf, but I've barely made any Dwarf characters is what I mean)
- Island Aumaua
- Wild Orlan

[Voss]

I don't understand the dislike for the Death Godlike.  1.2 extra damage what's not to like?  The question is when does it trigger (what is low endurance)... if it's anything under half it's amazing, if it's like 5% endurance left then it'd be crap.

It just happens too late.  No point in a damage bonus if one or two more hits will kill the thing anyway.  Simple because of the way damage works (the random factors), you'll almost never hit the threshold exactly and then follow up with exactly the amount of strikes to get the most use of it. Odds are you'll put the critter decently under the limit and then kill it off regardless of the bonus.

 

In a normal sized party,  since combat often turns into a dogpile (focus fire is generally superior to spreading damage), it is entirely reasonable to expect that the godlike often won't even benefit from the damage bonus at all-  the other party memebers will get the hits, rendering it entirely moot.

 

Then on top of *that*, it benefits slow weapons significantly more than quicker weapons, which means you're even more unlikely to get the strikes, unless you're purposefully holding back the other party members from finishing the critter off (which is just plain dumb). With fast weapons the low base damage isn't significantly multiplied by the bonus.  It is pretty much self-defeating in every way possible.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Voss

[Macsen]

 

I don't understand the dislike for the Death Godlike.  1.2 extra damage what's not to like?  The question is when does it trigger (what is low endurance)... if it's anything under half it's amazing, if it's like 5% endurance left then it'd be crap.

It just happens too late.  No point in a damage bonus if one or two more hits will kill the thing anyway.

 

Thanks for replying, you've not convinced me , needing one less hit to kill an opponent could be huge they still do the same damage to you regardless of how much endurance/health they have.  The Death Godlike trait would in theory be used significantly more than many of the other traits too, most are much more circumstantial, but your often likely to be up against damaged opponents (almost every combat).

 

EDIT:  I replied to your post before seeing your edit more to think about

 

 

Edited March 15, 2015 by Macsen

[Odd Hermit]

Also what bonuses can you get on helms?  An intelligence bonus would make taking the Godlike races a lot less attractive.

 

There's a +Dex and Athletics helm in the BB. Presumably there'll be a variety of stat bonuses similar to that, I would imagine intellect included.

[Whipstitch]

The human talent is pretty underrated. Several racials give worse benefits while being if anything more circumstantial--of all the effects present in this game, "damage" is the only universal, which makes it a handy bonus for tanky dps characters who you don't mind taking a couple hits on their mad rush to curb stomp wizards. Bonus irony points when Folk hate gets combined with Island Aumaua hate--people are openly pining for proactive abilities that let you snuff out trouble before it even starts yet gunslinger Islanders are about the only racial that really fits the bill.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Whipstitch

[Macsen]

 

Also what bonuses can you get on helms?  An intelligence bonus would make taking the Godlike races a lot less attractive.

 

There's a +Dex and Athletics helm in the BB. Presumably there'll be a variety of stat bonuses similar to that, I would imagine intellect included.

 

I just had a look for spoilers on the wiki so I guess I know the answer to that you can't enchant hats/helmets I believe so you'd be reliant on acquiring special items.  So having some Godlikes I guess wouldn't really be a drawback since you'd be unlikely to find 6 amazing hats/helms. 

[Karkarov]

Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too late in the game to change any of this other than racial skill tweaks so not sure the point of question one.  Especially since the current system works just fine.  Racial wise human is by far the lamest but none of them downright suck completely, just some are clearly better than others for specific things.

[Luckmann]

I've said it before and I'm saying it again; the human racials should be split up, and I think the poll should reflect that.

But yeah, I'm going to go with the Deathlike, and it's racial is meh as balls.

[Tartantyco]

Other: Race and culture should only affect your interaction with the world and other characters. Maybe a minor class neutral skill for races.

 

Some quests would be available or unavailable to certain Races/Cultures. Different quest resolutions would be available or unavailable based on R/C. NPCs of different R/Cs might be positively or negatively affected by your R/C, some merchants may raise their prices or deny you service entirely, while others might give you discounts or give you quests. That kind of stuff.

 

It's obviously way too late for that for this game, but I hope they consider doing that for the sequel, instead of the boring and class-prejudiced stat bonuses currently in place. As much as possible, a player should never choose their race or culture because it has the bonuses that most improve their chosen class.

[Quadrone]

I just had a look for spoilers on the wiki so I guess I know the answer to that you can't enchant hats/helmets I believe so you'd be reliant on acquiring special items.  So having some Godlikes I guess wouldn't really be a drawback since you'd be unlikely to find 6 amazing hats/helms. 

 

 

Pffffhahaha, are you serious? You think there are less than 6 enchanted helmets in the game? The enchantment doesn't even have to be amazing. A permanent +stat and +skill beats +20% dmg when the enemy is under 15% health any day.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Quadrone

[Macsen]

 

I just had a look for spoilers on the wiki so I guess I know the answer to that you can't enchant hats/helmets I believe so you'd be reliant on acquiring special items.  So having some Godlikes I guess wouldn't really be a drawback since you'd be unlikely to find 6 amazing hats/helms. 

 

 

Pffffhahaha, are you serious? You think there are less than 6 enchanted helmets in the game? The enchantment doesn't even have to be amazing. A permanent +stat and +skill beats +20% dmg when the enemy is under 15% health any day.

 

No, that's not what I was implying I'd put money on it there's lots more, but there not all going to be useful for every character build.  Where'd you get the under 15% health from by the way you're the only source I've heard that from???

[gkathellar]

 

I just had a look for spoilers on the wiki so I guess I know the answer to that you can't enchant hats/helmets I believe so you'd be reliant on acquiring special items.  So having some Godlikes I guess wouldn't really be a drawback since you'd be unlikely to find 6 amazing hats/helms. 

 

 

Pffffhahaha, are you serious? You think there are less than 6 enchanted helmets in the game? The enchantment doesn't even have to be amazing. A permanent +stat and +skill beats +20% dmg when the enemy is under 15% health any day.

 

 

QFT. Godlike have a small advantage for the 10 minutes it'll take you to find better headgear. Maybe Silver Tide will hold up, but I find it unlikely.