Similarities between older RPGs and the new ones

[Diogenes]

Don't go on tvtropes.

[Gorth]

Moved to general gaming forum...

[Althernai]

I think that there is a basic angle that has been missed in this discussion: if you want a game with a boygirl humanelfdwarforcother protagonist you are forced to a very limited set of plot devices.  If you want your protagonist to have context - actual relationships that predate the game period - you don't get to mix and match gender / species / background in arbitrary ways.

 

What made Torment special was that you were able to figure out, as the story progressed, that you actually *had* connections to the other characters and history.

This is true, but having a predefined protagonist comes with a significant drawback: if you can't stand the character, you're not going to enjoy the game. My little sister loved Baldur's Gate 2, but she simply refused to play Planescape: Torment for more than a couple of hours, even when I explicitly asked her to give it a chance.

[Ohioastro]

It's definitely true that you have to have a good story.  My point was that computer RPGs have such a narrow set of plots because the constraints of the game format itself (start with a random player character) don't tend to allow a rich associated plot.

[Amentep]

 

You're kidding, right?  The amnesiac chosen one on a journey of self discovery, and finding out that his past self is a bad person?  

That is 100% cliche.  

The 'weird' elements aren't a function of the computer game, but the D&D setting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but the (lack of) originality isn't the reason why.

 

See "Angel Heart" an early Mickey Rourke film or "Memento" I'm sure it's been done before elsewhere aswel.

 

The 1987 film "Angel Heart" was based on a 1978 book by William Hjorstberg called "Falling Angel".

 

For earlier - similar but not the same - ideas you can see the 1928 novel "The House of Dr. Edwardes" by Francis Beeding (made into the Hitch**** film SPELLBOUND) or "The Black Curtain" (1941) by Cornell Woolrich (made into the film STREET OF CHANCE) both featured amnesiac protaganists trying to uncover their past (and in both cases being implicated in murder as they start to uncover who they are).

[Zwiebelchen]

I don't think that it's a bad thing if you go by tropes. In a way, you can't avoid touching several tropes in any story. This is because there exists a trope for almost anything: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage

 

But tropes aren't a bad thing. In fact, tropes are helpful tools to tailor your story. The trick is to mix your tropes up with less popular tropes or unexpected twists. This is what makes a memorable story. And there are always tropes that are completely under-used and interesting.

 

 

Just a quick example: how much RPGs have you played where the protagonist is a mother? Heck, even for party members it's rare to find a woman who has kids. One would assume that in a world where everyone should have had a mother at some point that you would at least find one character who has children?

The oddest thing about this is, that the premise alone spawns numerous of interesting plot possibilities that almost never get explored in any triple-A game yet.

It seems that in RPGs, any real-world struggles are completely out of question.

 

 

That being said, some games surprised me with how they played with tropes and expectations and twisted them around for memorable moments. The earliest example I ever played was Lufia II for the SNES back in the glorious 16-bit era. When the game starts, you are immediately presented with the typical childhood-friend girl-next-door. Absolutely the "the first girl wins" trope. It's getting hinted over and over again that there will be a romance plot at some point. And then I was amazed to find out that the protagonist is just one of those douchebags that completely forgets about her as soon as a hotter girl shows up. Unexpected and awesome with a touch of realism!

Edited March 4, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Blodhemn]

One thing that puts me off many RPGs is that they start off in the most uninteresting and unimaginative ways. It's as if it's an RPG staple to be as lame as possible from the outset, which is one of the reasons why Bloodlines is so good - it's one of the few games that is extremely top heavy in story/action/content.

 

I also think that the strongest aspect of the Witcher series is precisely that this isn't yet another condemned prisoner / amnesiac / adopted foster child - it's a lead character who is embedded in a culture and roles with others.

That not game developer's doing, though. CD Projekt just made the right call taking novels of a decent writer as a base, starting out with solid fleshed out world and several charismatic characters, including Geralt himself. That blasted "sex happens every time you turn around" part that so many people hated outright was just another thing brought up from novels in sake of consistency. It resulted in slight confusion when the game's script poses itself as continuation of the events in the books and uses entire scenes from those at the same time. What, it's all happened again in exactly the same way as before?

 

In context of rpgs, I guess writer have to use different tricks depending on whether protagonist is a predefined person or supposed to be fully customazible by player. The latter tends to be a little nonsense-generating occasionally.

 

Too bad none of that actually helped the dialogue writing in the Witcher, which ranges from edgy ****goblin insults to overly wordy, unnatural conversation. They need a writer who knows how to be concise with something other than insults. And the Witcher 2 does have the amnesia storyline...

[Bryy]

I wanted to have a brainstorm about all kind of repetitive and reused elements in many plots and games and even to discuss about why the same specific elements or plots can click together and make one amazing story in one game and an awful one in another.

And whenever anyone has engaged you in exactly that, you've said "nu-uh! no!".

 

Discussion is not just opinions you agree with.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Bryy