Accuracy be-gone?

[Luckmann]

I know, but it's not particularly clear on the matter. Coming from IE (and other games) interrupt is something that practically only affects casters, and exactly how interrupt works in PoE isn't.. clear at all.

Also, I keep asking myself why Perception would grant Interrupt at all, really. A well-placed blow interrupts better than a regular blow? I mean.. I'd expect them to pretty much just interrupt just as well. I'd just expect interrupt to be a function of damage or pain caused, and.. I don't know.

 

I think the Ability Scores still need adjustment and be moved around a bit more, but at this point it's hard to discuss specifics because we haven't seen how it works at the moment, and v392 doesn't apply anymore due to a wide variety of changes.

[Shevek]

They could do to accuracy what they did to deflection. Split the bonus between two attributes. I would go with dex and perc each giving .5 per point. I would keep the bonus small. You could then move the full deflection bonus to resolve (none on perception). Even doing this, I can see people wanting to max per and dex for 8 more accuracy.

 

I think its fine with accuracy gone tho.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Shevek

[forgottenlor]

interrupt has the potential to be very useful as it interrupts more than just casters.  as far as we can tell, just about any current queued action can be interrupted.  it is unfortunate, but from a practical pov, am complete baffled by how interrupt is modified by abilities.  am recalling back in summer 2014, folks took a shot at explaining the math behind interrupt and it seemed to be a mess. regardless, it appeared as if the attribute modification o' interrupt chance were very small.

 

in the early bb releases, we had an extreme useful ranger that were based on an interrupt concept, but as our current ranger's summoned bear is no longer a meat-shield but rather a twisted s&m pain transfer device, our dedicated interrupter no longer has appeal. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I completely agree with you. I see interrupt as being possibly very useful. I could see a fast attacking high interrupt character really messing up a warrior wielding a slow two handed weapon. I just think explaining how the mechanic works is very difficult. If my characters is doing circa 50 damage, then I understand that +10% damage yields 5 more points on average, or how +5% critical hit chance works. Explaining how interrupt works seams a lot more challenging.

[Odd Hermit]

 

interrupt has the potential to be very useful as it interrupts more than just casters.  as far as we can tell, just about any current queued action can be interrupted.  it is unfortunate, but from a practical pov, am complete baffled by how interrupt is modified by abilities.  am recalling back in summer 2014, folks took a shot at explaining the math behind interrupt and it seemed to be a mess. regardless, it appeared as if the attribute modification o' interrupt chance were very small.

 

in the early bb releases, we had an extreme useful ranger that were based on an interrupt concept, but as our current ranger's summoned bear is no longer a meat-shield but rather a twisted s&m pain transfer device, our dedicated interrupter no longer has appeal. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I completely agree with you. I see interrupt as being possibly very useful. I could see a fast attacking high interrupt character really messing up a warrior wielding a slow two handed weapon. I just think explaining how the mechanic works is very difficult. If my characters is doing circa 50 damage, then I understand that +10% damage yields 5 more points on average, or how +5% critical hit chance works. Explaining how interrupt works seams a lot more challenging.

 

 

I'm assuming it checks against concentration. So slower attacking characters could get extra concentration to mitigate.

 

Slow attacks with high DT bypass seemed like the way to go so far though(I wonder if damage per hit factors into interrupt?). Perhaps they're still tweaking that stuff. Interrupts are nice but a well built/balanced party should have enough CC to not rely on RNG interrupts. I never thought "better use a high interrupt character to disrupt this caster", I just dropped a disabling ability/spell on them as its more reliable/ on demand.

[Gromnir]

 

 

interrupt has the potential to be very useful as it interrupts more than just casters.  as far as we can tell, just about any current queued action can be interrupted.  it is unfortunate, but from a practical pov, am complete baffled by how interrupt is modified by abilities.  am recalling back in summer 2014, folks took a shot at explaining the math behind interrupt and it seemed to be a mess. regardless, it appeared as if the attribute modification o' interrupt chance were very small.

 

in the early bb releases, we had an extreme useful ranger that were based on an interrupt concept, but as our current ranger's summoned bear is no longer a meat-shield but rather a twisted s&m pain transfer device, our dedicated interrupter no longer has appeal. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I completely agree with you. I see interrupt as being possibly very useful. I could see a fast attacking high interrupt character really messing up a warrior wielding a slow two handed weapon. I just think explaining how the mechanic works is very difficult. If my characters is doing circa 50 damage, then I understand that +10% damage yields 5 more points on average, or how +5% critical hit chance works. Explaining how interrupt works seams a lot more challenging.

 

 

I'm assuming it checks against concentration. So slower attacking characters could get extra concentration to mitigate.

 

 

what is "it" and how exactly is it generated? 

 

*shrug*'

 

with early builds, interrupt checks were mathematical enigmatic.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lephys]

You'd think, at the very least, stats could still modify other Accuracy modifiers. Take Perception. Maybe when it's dark, or someone used "Throw Sand In Face" or something (i.e. "Blinded" you, even if you're not completely blind), instead of receiving a -20 to Accuracy, you'd only receive a -7 because you have ridiculously good Perception. OR, maybe normally, a person wouldn't have very good Accuracy with a bow at 100 feet, but, because of your awesome Perception, you maintain your accuracy at longer distances.

 

These options don't let you "pump Accuracy" with your stats, but they still let you affect it (the ranged-weapon thing, most notably, since "I want to be a sniper" seems like a pretty valid archetype for an archer character, as opposed to someone else who might have much less Perception, and rely on closer-range skirmishy ranged attacks with short bows/crossbows/firearms, etc.).

[Karkarov]

Interrupt is highly undervalued by most, because like Luckman I believe suggested, it can interrupt anything.  I do mean anything.  Even standard melee attacks.  Also I didn't mean to imply the reflex thing was new, it isn't, but it does also do that so you need to list it .  I think it may buff it more now than it used to though, hard to be sure.

 

Perception is a strong stat for anyone who attacks quickly, because faster attacks leads to more interrupt chances.  I have experimented with interrupt dual wielding fighters in such in the past.  No their damage wasn't the be all end all, but trust me, they worked and were effective.

[Sensuki]

And it's a dump stat for anyone who doesn't.

[Shevek]

All stats dont have to be of value for all possible builds.

[Karkarov]

All stats dont have to be of value for all possible builds.

You can say that again.  Accuracy getting removed was a foregone conclusion at this point, it is too powerful compared to the other stat bonuses and trivialized every other stat.  It is okay to have a stat that is a "dump stat" for the grogs making a high damage two hand weapon user, but not a dumper for say a rogue dual wielder.  That is a good thing in fact.

[Sensuki]

See, I don't know about that. What's more of a concern to me is that Interrupt and (especially) Concentration are horrible as primary stats for Attributes.

 

I would like to try the new patch to see how it plays, but I think it does call for a thorough examination of the issue again. Hopefully Matt will have some time to assist me on that.

[Gromnir]

See, I don't know about that. What's more of a concern to me is that Interrupt and (especially) Concentration are horrible as primary stats for Attributes.

 

 

am gonna disagree. it all depends on just how much a point o' perception affects tendency to successful interrupt and how necessary concentration becomes to effective mitigate interrupts... and o' course the degree to which a point o' resolves contributes to such mitigation.

 

the problem with interrupt attributes in previous builds were not that interrupt were weak as'posed to strong, but rather that adding or reducing points in the interrupt attribute had negligible benefits and/or penalties. it made far more sense to hit opponents more frequent via boosted accuracy and to make appropriate weapon choice for your potential interrupter character than to spend attribute points specific to boost interrupt. also, playing on hard, we were needing to kill enemies so freaking fast that interrupt were becoming less noteworthy than were pure damage potential.

 

concentration is a bit different. regardless o' how effective interrupt is, if enemy ai or behavior is such that opponents rare interrupt, then regardless o' the potential usefulness o' interrupt, one might not need concentration. it remains to be seen just how much we needs to boost concentration.  also, at hard level o' difficulty, we frequent die if we is hit successful more than once, so our fear o' being interrupted, in addition to being a corpse, is a largely incidental concern.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 3, 2015 by Gromnir

[Sensuki]

They work literally no different from how they used to, except that you now get +6% per point instead of +3%. Interrupt still relies on Accuracy to actually have an impact. In v257 and v278, Interrupts were actually playing on misses as well (due to a bug) so it 'seemed' more effective than it actually was.

 

Also my apologies, crits are 101+

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sensuki

[Gromnir]

They work literally no different from how they used to, except that you now get +6% per point instead of +3%. Interrupt still relies on Accuracy to actually have an impact. In v257 and v278, Interrupts were actually playing on misses as well (due to a bug) so it 'seemed' more effective than it actually was.

well, doubling the impact o' the attribute point boost is seemingly a noteworthy "except." the thing is, the +3% were near complete negligible, so am not certain that doubling is enough. if the developers didn't change the way interrupts is generated beyond doubling the impact o' the attribute point, am dubious that the 6% will add requisite value.

 

that being said, am thinking some difficulties in judging the usefulness o' attributes and derived stats has as much to do with play difficulty than anything else.  is kinda counter-intuitive, but hard difficulty actual robbed us o' many strategic and tactical considerations.  at hard difficulty level, our strategy were to build characters that could deliver as much kill as fast as possible.  yes, very complex. many tactical considerations is similarly moot if one needs kill everything extreme fast. hard difficulty is frequently, and ironically, a bit o' a mindless hackfest.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 3, 2015 by Gromnir

[Sensuki]

Also keep in mind that it's +6% of the base interrupt of the weapon, all fast attacking weapons have low interrupt values (as do firearms).

 

I agree that Hard difficulty actually limits tactical options. This is my experience as well, particularly with movement and positioning - Engagement makes higher enemy numbers really not fun to play against.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sensuki

[Shevek]

Considering that fights should last considerable longer, interuppt builds may have more time to shine. Hearth Orlan Skaen Priest with high perpection and intelligence that dual wields stilletos. Yup, that might have to be my main depending on how it plays next patch.

[Luckmann]

And it's a dump stat for anyone who doesn't.

 

Which is really my main gripe with the changes. While yes, in v392 Perception reigned supreme thanks to the +Accuracy and Accuracy being incredibly overvalued, the new system seems to have created several dump stats.

 

Also keep in mind that it's +6% of the base interrupt of the weapon, all fast attacking weapons have low interrupt values (as do firearms).

I didn't even know that; yet more questions related to Interrupt that I didn't even know I had.

 

I agree that Hard difficulty actually limits tactical options. This is my experience as well, particularly with movement and positioning - Engagement makes higher enemy numbers really not fun to play against.

Which is why I really dislike Engagement "as is". It doesn't do anything interesting or add something meaningful when it's not necessary for it to fulfil it's stated function (i.e. when you face a low number of opponents; you're going to win anyway) and it's detrimental to gameplay when it would need to fulfil it's stated function and actually contribute something meaningful (i.e. a large number of opponents).

 

It just doesn't add anything useful. It's effective function alternates between doing nothing meaningful, and actively taking large creamy dumps on the player for trying to play the game.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Luckmann

[Sensuki]

When the next patch comes out, I'll be looking into improving the "Remove Engagement" part of the IE mod.

 

Once the full game is out, it will require some asset editing as well, that may make taking full advantage of the IE mod a bit inconvenient (as you will have to manually replace more files) ... although we'll see.

[forgottenlor]

So interrupt only works with weapons? Or does it effect damaging spells as well? Would it be useful for a wizard, for example?

 

Also if I understand correctly, a weapon with 10% interrupt would have 13% interrupt in the hands of a character with a 15 perception or a 7% interrupt in the hands of a character with a 5 perception. Is that correct?

Edited February 3, 2015 by forgottenlor

[archangel979]

When the next patch comes out, I'll be looking into improving the "Remove Engagement" part of the IE mod.

 

Once the full game is out, it will require some asset editing as well, that may make taking full advantage of the IE mod a bit inconvenient (as you will have to manually replace more files) ... although we'll see.

I would love if someone modded Engagement to just slow down units instead of allowing attacks.

[Sensuki]

No it works with every damage-based attack and spell.

 

40 Interrupt is considered 'Average', I believe. Base Unit Concentration I believe is 50.

[forgottenlor]

No it works with every damage-based attack and spell.

 

40 Interrupt is considered 'Average', I believe. Base Unit Concentration I believe is 50.

 

Thanks for the information. I think you could build some useful builds around it. If 40 is the base interrupt, a 15 perception grants 52 interrupt and a 20 perception would grant 64, which seems like it could be pretty useful for characters built around that concept. I agree though that its a good dump stat for priests and other classes which are concentrating on things like buffing.

[Sensuki]

Or you know, killing things.

[Killyox]

This may sound strange but... I would limit engagement to NPCs only. As in we can lock NPCs down with engagement but they don't do it back to us unless very few specific NPCs.

 

Not like w ehave to have same stuff for PC and NPC seeing how Health and Endurance is already different from waht NPCs have.

 

PS

 

Did anyone actually play decent amount with talents that reduce chance to be hit by disengagement attacks?

[forgottenlor]

Or you know, killing things.

 

I agree but in a party of six characters don't you think an interrupter could be quite useful? A barbarian or fighter, for example, or maybe even a wizard seem like they could function well in this role.

Edited February 3, 2015 by forgottenlor