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Thieving skills ?


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Is everything for stealth / mechanics going to cover thieving ? Like pickpocketting ? maybe this has been covered somewhere, but I didn't find it.

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scripted interaction ? Really? Like if you have high enough mechanics and stealth the dialogue option is there, otherwise its not ?

 

can you elaborate or provide link to where this is discussed. I can not comment on whats present if anything is present, in the beta yet.

Obsidian wrote:
 

​"those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

 

 Now we know what's going on...

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Basically, all we know is that pickpocketing will likely be possible in very specific situations, rather than whenever you'd like to freely click on a skill button, then on an unsuspecting NPC. I don't think we know much more about pickpocketing specifically. However, I don't think it'll be limited to just actual dialogues (you won't need to be necessarily talking to anyone, or engaged in a conversation). There are scripted interactions that are just that: interactions that utilize the "dialogue" interface, so that you choose options. Kind of like your DM describing your surroundings, in a PnP session, then asking your party "what do you do?", but with a limited set of options instead of whatever-you-can-possibly-think-of-that-isn't-against-the-rules.

 

So, I'm guessing, where applicable, you'll have pickpocketing opportunities (if you have sufficient Stealth skill/what-have-you.)

 

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can provide links to more specific info, though.

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Will the chance to pickpocket possibly depend on if you are in stealth, or be a mechanics skill, like technique or would it be manual dexterity based, these are genuine concerns.

Obsidian wrote:
 

​"those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

 

 Now we know what's going on...

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Doubtful it will depend on being in stealth at the moment you initiate it. More likely just based on actual stealth skill and/or dexterity stat.

 

A popular point of reference for this is the interactions with the Dusties and the pickpockets early on in Planescape Torment.

Edited by Tamerlane
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Doubtful it will depend on being in stealth at the moment you initiate it. More likely just based on actual stealth skill and/or dexterity stat.

 

A popular point of reference for this is the interactions with the Dusties and the pickpockets early on in Planescape Torment.

 

but you could use normal thieving skills once you were a thief in Torment, normally.

Obsidian wrote:
 

​"those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

 

 Now we know what's going on...

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I believe he's referencing a specific bit of Torment. Not the systems of the entire game. Hence him citing "the Dusties and the pickpockets early on in Planescape Torment," rather than "it'll be like stealing was in Planescape Torment."

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Don't overcomplicate it. Thieving will be available when Obs want it to be (you won't have control over who you want to rob), ie. scripted interactions. As for where/when it was said, it was a while ago in one of Josh's rare Obsidian forum interactions.

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Well, I don't think it's going to be a scripted interaction for the sole purpose of pickpocketing.

 

"You see before you a man with things in his pockets. What will you do?:

 

1) Attempt to take all the things.

2) Go away and not do anything."

 

I think it'll be more just an option in a given situation, where applicable. Like... if you wake up in a jail cell. Maybe one of the options is to try and pickpocket the keys off the guard to open the door.

 

You know, not so much "that guy could have things in his pockets that I could procure, just because," and more "it would be particularly useful to be able to take a specific item off that man's person without his knowing, in this situation."

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Well, in the jail cell example, the importance is more on there being an alternative to getting out of your cell, rather than getting the item which happens to be one way to get out of your cell. Maybe if you have good enough Perception, you can find something that will work as a lockpick, and do that instead. Or maybe you can provoke the guard, then snap his neck or something. In which case I guess you'd have the key (the pickpocketable item). But... my point is that I don't believe they're simply replicating the "procure spiffy items from people," just in scripted interaction form instead.

 

It's possible some of the pickpocketing situations will allow you to get something spiffy (that you're after for the sake of having that thing, rather than as a means to an end), but it seems like the majority of them will focus on the utility of pickpocketing in order to alter a scenario/achieve a specific goal (like getting out of the jail cell).

 

Of course, I'd love to see the consequences of your decisions/actions go beyond just "did you get this thing or not?". Maybe, for example, you can use pickpocketing in a situation to, say, procure some important document. But, that person's PROBABLY going to notice it's missing within a short time. So, maybe you have the document -- as opposed to not-having it if you didn't pickpocket it, and having to handle the situation without possession of the document -- but now people are chasing your party, whereas they wouldn't have been if you hadn't stolen the document.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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The drawback of limiting pickpocketing to scripted behavior is that it does not encourage creative approaches. There's no emergent game play, just a choose your path adventure book.

Edited by rjshae
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So long as there is an alternative to getting whatever you would have gotten by stealing it, Im cool. After all, why should I be punished for not having a high level Rogue? Isnt that the mantra?

 

Yeah, today it's important that it's all like some Skyrim catch-em-all cannot-possibly-fail everything-works-out-no-matter-what I don't know what I was going with that, honestly, but seriously, screw that form of design. There absolutely should be no-win scenarios or scenarios that are locked out because of choices made.

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The drawback of limiting pickpocketing to scripted behavior is that it does not encourage creative approaches. There's no emergent game play, just a choose your path adventure book.

True enough. But the, there's the drawback to fully-free pickpocketing, which is that whatever skill governs pickpocketing just becomes the "arbitrarily get free items all the time/insta-fail the game if you try it on the wrong person" skill. Or, to put it another way, with the emergent gameplay comes a boatload of "just run around stealing from whomever." Especially if you throw dice rolls in with it, 'cause you get stuck between "be really careful who you try to steal from or you'll have to reload on account of the town being hostile to you now" and "just steal from everyone and reload until you're successful because you're going to unluckily have to reload sometimes anyway."

 

Anywho... I dunno, simply put, a game's all about what goals are present, and what limitations are in place, resulting in your capabilities to achieve those goals (whether it be all of them, or some of them, solution variance, etc.). So, I think I'd rather have something like "You can only pickpocket when it's significant" than "you always have a chance to get free stuff from any given wandering person, even though the game design's kind of tarnished by your having all that free stuff, and also sometimes, as a side effect, you get emergent gameplay in situations where it already would've been an applicable skill." IF the limited "only when we let you" approach covers a good deal of situations.

 

There're pros to both approaches, though.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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The drawback of limiting pickpocketing to scripted behavior is that it does not encourage creative approaches. There's no emergent game play, just a choose your path adventure book.

 

I don't know how emergent the pickpocketing gameplay in the IE games was. All the goodies you could pickpocket had to be placed there by the designers after all.

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Pocketing is major in IE games IMO. how could you play without it ? you'd be missing so much good gear, unless you kill everything. 

Obsidian wrote:
 

​"those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

 

 Now we know what's going on...

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FWIW I don't think I've ever pickpocketed in the IE games. It's not like there's a shortage of stuff in them even without it.

 

Yeah, I was about to say that. I'm pretty sure I tried it once or twice, the enemies went hostile and I just never tried it again.

 

Pickpocketing is ridiculously useful in the IE games (Or rather, at least in BG2). It is a gateway to such profits that it's borderline broken, once you pump it up to ~240-250 (with potions). Primarily for five-finger discounts at stores, but there are also a lot of loot to be hand from pickpocketing the right targets. Not just specific targets (like Ribald, for his Ring of Regeneration) or for quests (which sadly often ends up with the quest becoming disjointed), but also more "randomized" targets (such as the Amnish Guards, who has a chance of carrying high-level spell scrolls, up to lvl cool.png.

 

Pickpocketing is awesome. And if you piss someone off, just fleeing often works, but really, just try to not piss people off.

 

I don't know how emergent the pickpocketing gameplay in the IE games was. All the goodies you could pickpocket had to be placed there by the designers after all.

Not very, although not all the goodies are pre-placed, but anyway, the point I was going to make is that the IE games isn't the end-all be-all measuring stick of well-implemented mechanics. Pickpocketing definitely has the potential to be better implemented than in the IE games, and I think that relegating it to "scripted only"-interactions is a sad cop-out.

Edited by Luckmann
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In BG and BG2 pickpocketing was quite superior skill as you can get some of the best equipment in the game in near beginning of those games.

Planescape: Torment pickpocketing was done in much better fashion in my opinion as you could use it to get forward in quests, although it usually just meant that you skipped over some (dialog/exploration) content in the game.

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More i read, more i like.

 

I never pickpocket anything on BG1, BG2, BG2 expansions, IWD, IWD2 or TORMENT, actually my principal character was always a Paladin so this is nice to know. The thing is that like Elerond say best items can be found only pickpocketing on those games, that mean i have a nice chance to found good and nice items without get forced to use pickpocketing. Adios pixel battle and fake pc calculations.

Yes i know, my english sux.

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