Ambient sounds + NPCs : cities too empty ? + Animations of characters

[Luckmann]

Minsc is one of the worst PNJ's in BG. He's a complete POS. I usually tell him to GTFO, ASAP.

 

Edit: LOL.

I absolutely loathe Minsc. In BG1, he was alright, but in BG2, he's infuriating, a clear victim of flanderization.

 

BG2 always suffered in the character department, especially compared to BG1, but the whole thing was exacerbated by the fact that multiple NPC:s were either useless (Cernd) or just plain lolrandum retarded with no redeeming qualities (Minsc, Jan) or one of the good ones even killed off (Yoshimo).

 

Out of all the characters they could've taken from BG1, such as Kivan, Xan, Eldoth, Garrick, Kagain, Yeslick or Ajantis, they decided that some of the absolute worst ones were in the "end party"; Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir and.. ugh.. Minsc. Even those that they took from BG1 that were awesome, Viconia and Edwin, were relegated to showing up later.

 

BG2 has a great many good qualities, but it could've done far, far, far better in the CNPC department, starting with killing Minsc in a tragic cartwheel incident.

 

And now we have PoE, with a grand total of 8 CNPC:s for a 6-man party. That's nothing short of sad.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Luckmann

[Sonntam]

And now we have PoE, with a grand total of 8 CNPC:s for a 6-man party. That's nothing short of sad.

 

If you ask me, that's great. It means I get to shove all my favorite companions in one party and won't agonize over the decison whether to leave Pallegina or Eder at stronghold.

 

Plus, it's better to have 8 well written companions with lots of content for each one of them, instead spreading it thin on 16 characters.

[anameforobsidian]

BG2 always suffered in the character department, especially compared to BG1, but the whole thing was exacerbated by the fact that multiple NPC:s were either useless (Cernd) or just plain lolrandum retarded with no redeeming qualities (Minsc, Jan) or one of the good ones even killed off (Yoshimo).

 

Out of all the characters they could've taken from BG1, such as Kivan, Xan, Eldoth, Garrick, Kagain, Yeslick or Ajantis, they decided that some of the absolute worst ones were in the "end party"; Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir and.. ugh.. Minsc. Even those that they took from BG1 that were awesome, Viconia and Edwin, were relegated to showing up later.

 

BG2 has a great many good qualities, but it could've done far, far, far better in the CNPC department, starting with killing Minsc in a tragic cartwheel incident.

 

And now we have PoE, with a grand total of 8 CNPC:s for a 6-man party. That's nothing short of sad.

 

 

So:

1.  PE does have the adventurer's hall.  It provides you with as many mechanically useful party members as possible.

2.  BG1 threw everything it had and the kitchen sink into its npcs.  Remember the memorable characters like Branwen or Dynaheir?  You seem to like strong, stoic, and boorish characters.  It had those in spades.  For the life of me, I couldn't tell why you would want Xan or Adjantis in a party other than completionist and mechanical reasons.  

3.  Also, you complain about characters being late to BG2, but keep in mind BG1 introduced several characters in late chapters of the game like Cloakwood forest or actually in Baldur's Gate.  It takes a lot longer to get Alora in your party than it takes to find Viconia.

4.  Finally, Planescape Torment had 8 CNPCs for a 6-person party.  Every single one had a superior quantity and quality of writing than any BG1 character.

Edited January 18, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[Luckmann]

 

BG2 always suffered in the character department, especially compared to BG1, but the whole thing was exacerbated by the fact that multiple NPC:s were either useless (Cernd) or just plain lolrandum retarded with no redeeming qualities (Minsc, Jan) or one of the good ones even killed off (Yoshimo).

 

Out of all the characters they could've taken from BG1, such as Kivan, Xan, Eldoth, Garrick, Kagain, Yeslick or Ajantis, they decided that some of the absolute worst ones were in the "end party"; Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir and.. ugh.. Minsc. Even those that they took from BG1 that were awesome, Viconia and Edwin, were relegated to showing up later.

 

BG2 has a great many good qualities, but it could've done far, far, far better in the CNPC department, starting with killing Minsc in a tragic cartwheel incident.

 

And now we have PoE, with a grand total of 8 CNPC:s for a 6-man party. That's nothing short of sad.

 

 

So:

1.  PE does have the adventurer's hall.  It provides you with as many mechanically useful party members as possible.

2.  BG1 threw everything it had and the kitchen sink into its npcs.  Remember the memorable characters like Branwen or Dynaheir?  You seem to like strong, stoic, and boorish characters.  It had those in spades.  For the life of me, I couldn't tell why you would want Xan or Adjantis in a party other than completionist and mechanical reasons.  

3.  Also, you complain about characters being late to BG2, but keep in mind BG1 introduced several characters in late chapters of the game like Cloakwood forest or actually in Baldur's Gate.  It takes a lot longer to get Alora in your party than it takes to find Viconia.

4.  Finally, Planescape Torment had 8 CNPCs for a 6-person party.  Every single one had a superior quantity and quality of writing than any BG1 character.

 

 

1) Adventurer's Hall doesn't count. All of the IE games (sans PS:T) allowed you to do that, too, but soulless mooks without dialogue or background doesn't count when it comes to counting the number of available CNPC:s, for very obvious reasons.

 

2) See, I hated Branwen and Dynaheir, and found them about as memorable as wet blankets. To call Eldoth, Garrick, Xan or Kagain "strong, stoic and boorish" is just sad, but more to my point is that you and I clearly like different kinds of characters; BG1 allowed you to make a party that fitted your character, it allowed you to make a party based around most concepts, and/or it allowed you to just plain pick and choose characters you found interesting on a personal, non-roleplaying level (I would, for example, never had Ajantis and Kagain in the same party, even though I liked them both, personally).

 

PoE won't let you do anything like that (and honestly, neither did BG2).

 

3) I wasn't complaining about that at all, and I have no idea why you'd think I was. I'm fine with CNPC:s being spread out in places that makes sense, rather than dumping them all on you in the first 1/4th of the game (as PoE no doubt will, and BG2 certainly did).

 

4) Yes, that is entirely correct. PS:T also suffered from an *extreme* lack of potential CNPC:s. The difference in quality of writing has nothing to do with that; it was most welcome.

 

But PS:T was also entirely different in writing and approach than BG/2, which made that lack make more sense. Each CNPC was functionally unique in every single way, and didn't so much adhere to a certain formula as much as they were unique characters, each, in their own right.

 

The idea of a themed party or a party appropriate to the character has to be considered absurd in that context. But even so, the extreme lack of potential CNPC:s in PS:T was always something that marred an otherwise near-perfect game.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Luckmann

[anameforobsidian]

The downside of having themed parties of npcs is that the npcs have much less dialogue and interact with each other much less, especially if you don't pick the right combinations.  How many conversations does Viconia have in BG1 vs.  BG2?  How about Adjantis vs. Keldorn?  A lot of times in BG I'll pick up a character, play with them for a few hours, and then throw them away forever because they're not saying anything interesting.

 

You may not like the type of characters they chose for BG2 (and I could take or leave about half of them) but the ones they did include are significantly more unique and fleshed out.  That makes for a less thematic party selection in replay, but it makes the party you do have more vibrant when you're originally experiencing it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[Sanquiz]

The downside of having themed parties of npcs is that the npcs have much less dialogue and interact with each other much less, especially if you don't pick the right combinations.  How many conversations does Viconia have in BG1 vs.  BG2?  A lot of times in BG I'll pick up a character, play with them for a few hours, and then throw them away forever because they're not saying anything interesting.

 

You need a friend.

 

Remember don't throw him away because he don't call you.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Arturo Sanquiz

[cloudpm]

Friends, coming back to the topic (or the devs will lose us ^^), so in general, some of us agree that, excluding storylines and other stuff, the cities need a little bit more "live" in them ?

 

I understood that for others, it seems "ok".

 

I do not remember who was talking about this but true, please add a little more pets, cows, butterflies, wandering NPCs.

That would be it for me for the moment

[Sanquiz]

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

[cloudpm]

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

I guess NPCs with sombreros, smoking cigarillos would also be nice.

 

If you wanna talk about your life, I guess there is another topic. Here the topic was about the emptyness of some towns. You don't wanna talk about it, be rude and ironical, your place won't be here. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by cloudpm

[Sonntam]

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

 

There actually are butterflies in game! I noticed one when Josh went through city gates. I was pretty happy to see that butterfly. 

[cloudpm]

 

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

 

There actually are butterflies in game! I noticed one when Josh went through city gates. I was pretty happy to see that butterfly. 

 

He was trolling and making fun of us. At some time, there will always be some wankers who will come and try to fu** every conversation up.

Edited January 18, 2015 by cloudpm

[Sonntam]

 

 

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

 

There actually are butterflies in game! I noticed one when Josh went through city gates. I was pretty happy to see that butterfly. 

 

He was trolling and making fun of us.

 

Who cares, I'm still damn excited about the butterfly. Crickets and butterflies. Who needs populated cities, when our insect overlords are in game.

[cloudpm]

 

 

 

Yes, the game need butterflies to be more alive also some mosquitos will be nice.

 

There actually are butterflies in game! I noticed one when Josh went through city gates. I was pretty happy to see that butterfly. 

 

He was trolling and making fun of us.

 

Who cares, I'm still damn excited about the butterfly. Crickets and butterflies. Who needs populated cities, when our insect overlords are in game.

 

I do agree with you bro

[Junker]

This is probably the number one reason why I am waiting for this game to go on sale before I buy it. The game looks so boring, safe, and empty. I'm sure the writing is great but I'm not interested in running around some pre rendered backgrounds reading paragraphs from a book.

 

Jack up the non interactables. Towns should be busy during the day and cities should be downright bustling.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

^^ I think they keep them so empty because of the pathing issues of the party size. If there were npc's hustling about our player's would be walking into them like a robot vacuum cleaner.

[cloudpm]

Other than that, I can hardly believe that they will not incorporate life in the cities. It is so obvious.

 

I mean, it's been more than 10 years now that players have all the same references in terms of RPG (BG, Planescape, Fallout...).

 

Larian Studios has done it. I mean before the streaming never I would have thought that those details would have missed in the final release.

[illathid]

As I've said before, the BB has hints that there could be a reason for the lack of population.

[Lord Wafflebum]

It's better to repetitively state your dissatisfaction than to read possible explanations from fellow forum members.

[Gromnir]

comparing b1 to bg2 joinable npcs, and finding the bg2 joinables lacking in the measuring is either delusional or insane. the bg1 joinables were little more than a collection o' 2-3 catchphrases and a character record sheet. a few o' the bg1 joinables maybe had a "quest" that were little more than a fed-ex mission. huzzah. folks is not being honest if they compare joinables from bg1 to bg2 and are finding the first iteration to be superior in any way save for in terms o' numbers... and possibly portrait artwork.

 

*chuckle*

 

bg1 corran likely got more development than any other jnpc in bg1, and all that you were able to reveal 'bout him were that he were an unrepentant, deadbeat dad. 

 

rose-colored glasses or insane?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[illathid]

It's better to repetitively state your dissatisfaction than to read possible explanations from fellow forum members.

 

Apparently...

[StrangeCat]

The game doesn't need more people it needs an alive world!  They need to step and say "yes were going to make out world come alive."

They need to add things that you would run into in a town by a Bay.  Birds, people sitting down, garbage, dogs, etc.

 

There are three parts to a city:  You have the Rich upper Class, Middle Working Class, and the poor beggers, and thieves, the under belly of the city.  Then you have the Theme of the City, what is the heart of the City, what is it's story.

 

Every area in the game should have things that make that area come alive.  Memory is poor excuse, find away around it.

 

In any event if the game is released as is Modders will create a Mod that will add more to areas like main City.

[Sarex]

It's better to repetitively state your dissatisfaction than to read possible explanations from fellow forum members.

 

Possible =/= actual. Critique was given, if there is an explanation that invalidates that critique then ignore it and move on. We can only critique what we see and know.

 

You do realize that the forum is not only for...hmmm let me put this in a nice way...patting the devs on the back and saying good work? Critique is much more useful then, "omg Obz you rock!".

Edited January 18, 2015 by Sarex

[Lord Wafflebum]

Heh, yes I understand, Sarex. The critique was responded to, the responses ignored, and received a restatement of his critique without regard to any possible explanations given.

 

If one isn't here for discussion, then why bother following up?

[Sarex]

Heh, yes I understand, Sarex. The critique was responded to, the responses ignored, and received a restatement of his critique without regard to any possible explanations given.

 

If one isn't here for discussion, then why bother following up?

 

Ah well that is another problem entirely, Josh has an aversion to this forum and responds once in a blue moon, which is strange because he is active on other forums and social media. That critique has also been given, and his answer was that he couldn't access this site from his home computer (believe it or not). That was over a year ago...

 

Though now that I read your post again, I may have misunderstood you.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Sarex

[Lord Wafflebum]

Lol, I think Sensuki has become Josh's unofficial spokesperson since they seem to be pretty tight on Something Awful.