Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity

[Stun]

@stun

 

Baldur Gate 2' s story was masterpiece and it wasn't simple neither.

 

it's not every game you play will have a good/bad guy chasing a mad wizard with asperger's disorder

 

Irenicus was actually refreshing villain for bg 2 time, and even in bg 1 you could see irenicus was a well flesh out character in BG universe

 

Just go to the cloakwood in Bg 1 and speak to a fat lolth wantobe

 

Even if irenicus wasn't part of Aluando's prophesy, it 's not like Gorian ward didn't have a life outside of the prophesy and Irenicus didn't have hidden motives.

Oh for crying out loud. Can we please try and not miss the point on this one?

 

Anyone who's ever endured my ranting on this forum for the past 2 years knows full well that BG2 is the greatest game ever created according to me, and that I rank it up there with Sex in awesomeness.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that it is NOT a continuation of BG1's plot. It's literally a "Here, Bhaalspawn, take a side trip in your life while the prophesy simmers somewhere else. We will later thrust you back into it".

Edited January 9, 2015 by Stun

[PrimeJunta]

Getting ambushed is one thing. I ran plenty of those. But I would never, ever start an encounter with "You find yourself in melee with a dozen orog and a slaver." Getting ambushed means that they automatically get initiative on the first round, and Dex bonuses to AC don't apply. That's it. It does not excuse the kind of shoddy encounter design we had here.

 

That's a relatively minor criticism though. Pushing through de'Arnise keep, I've got a bigger one: the maps here are just bad. The corridors are super-narrow, and with the awful pathing in the IE, it feels like I'm trying to herd cats getting my party through them. That's not fun either.

 

What was a bit fun was the first interesting encounter: a yuan-ti mage with a troll that split into smaller trolls. Wasn't too hard, just had to Dispel his protections before beating him to death, then clobber the troll(s). But something at least.

 

And more LOLworthy writing with Nalia's snooty aunt. They do rather belabor the point, don't they?

[Sensuki]

This actually prompted my first reload because one of the waylays was one of those encounters I hate -- somehow I was entirely surrounded and mixed in with baddies, who croaked Aerie before I had time to hit the pause key. She wasn't in the best of health because I wasn't resting, being in a hurry to get to the keep. And of course Raise Dead (or Jaheira's equivalent) doesn't work on elves. So, reload.

 

Wait you lost someone to Suna Seni? Wat!!!!111212131 Cast Stoneskin on Aerie, problem solved.

 

Also with the Golems in Irenicus' Dungeon, I usually go Long Sword proficiency and you get a Long Sword +1 like literally in the second room in the game, so once I get that I just quite literally walk into the room they are in and kill them both in the room, and they don't show up later. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Sensuki

[Enoch]

Just in case the negativity is getting you down, PJ, I'm quite enjoying this. 

 

I mean, I'm guessing that you anticipated the reaction you're getting-- you had to know that people tend to be very resistant to any kind of critical examination of stuff they liked when they were younger.  But you're not going full troll (and even if you were, the bites you're getting are worth the price of admission!), and your criticism sounds fair so far. 

 

 

And, yeah, David Warner is totally the star of BG2.  Just imagine if every line were voiced... [ducks impending wave of rotting garbage]

[PrimeJunta]

Okay, now THIS was cool. Met a guy called Glaicus who was apparently the chief of the guards and according to Nalia a good kind of fellow. He glugged a potion (speed?) and charged. I had Aerie slap a Dominate on him. To my delight, that snapped him out of it, and we had a friendly conversation instead of a fight. 

 

Nice job. It's moments like this that make all the difference!

 

(But yeah, the keep maps. The outdoors are really hard to navigate because the perspective obscures such a lot, and the indoors are hard to navigate just because of the really narrow corridors and what the pathfinding does to them. Not fun.)

[PrimeJunta]

Wait you lost someone to Suna Seni? Wat!!!!111212131 Cast Stoneskin on Aerie, problem solved.

 

Also with the Golems in Irenicus' Dungeon, I usually go Long Sword proficiency and you get a Long Sword +1 like literally in the second room in the game, so once I get that I just quite literally walk into the room they are in and kill them both in the room, and they don't show up later. 

 

That was after Suna Seni, and I already used her Stoneskin with that encounter. She only got croaked because I was surprised and didn't hit Pause fast enough. In the reload I got her out of trouble with Sanctuary. The encounter wasn't tough, just the first suckerpunch.

[500MetricTonnes]

I remember when I first played BG2...I had not played the first game and I was largely unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms setting. As a result, the game would continually make references to people, places, deities, events, and so on that I was utterly clueless about. It wasn't until I went back and played the first game and read a few Forgotten Realms novels (the quality of which were...debatable) that I really started enjoy BG2.

 

As for the comments about how "cheesy" the writing and characters are, while others might surely disagree, that's exactly the reason that I enjoy it so much. Modern fantasy has this tiresome obsession with "gritty realism," and it's a breath of fresh air to have some humour and levity in the genre. I'll gladly take Minsc's silliness or Edwin's arrogant smugness over Anders' melodrama or Fenris' angst. I even find characters who are widely disliked, like Aerie or Anomen, to be vastly preferable to other RPG characters I could mention (*cough* *cough* Geralt *cough*)

 

And the inventory system, I never really had a problem with it. I honestly don't know why developers have largely abandoned the grid system:

 

 

Every item is represented by an easily-identifiable icon. Your entire inventory is visible at once. Equipping an item is as simple as clicking and dragging. If this were a modern RPG, the inventory would likely be one big list that you'd have to scroll through just to find something.

[Sensuki]

I agree, I really like the IE inventory. That particular version is the BG2:EE one, which is 'better', but doesn't have a nice fullscreen UI

[PrimeJunta]

... continuing ...

 

Haha wow. Golems. This was my first save-and-reload-repeatedly encounter. Tried a few things, but it seems I just don't have any weapons that'll put a ding in that iron golem's armor. So I had Iggy glug a potion of Speed, go ... 

 

 

... grab the loot, scoot back out, with the rest of the party safely in the little room nearby, out of reach of Mr. Iron Golem's farts. Dismantled the other golems, left the big one stomping around angrily in the courtyard. (It must've been assembled there as it wouldn't fit through the secret door.) 

 

Anyway, that was fun. Take-home point: you can put really mean monsters in, as long as they're not blocking progress.

 

Onward.

[Sensuki]

Haha wow. Golems. This was my first save-and-reload-repeatedly encounter. Tried a few things, but it seems I just don't have any weapons that'll put a ding in that iron golem's armor. 

 

There's one in the room they are in lol ... it's on one of those pedestals

 

It's the Warhammer +1; +4 vs Giantkin

Edited January 9, 2015 by Sensuki

[prodigydancer]

I honestly don't know why developers have largely abandoned the grid system

Consolitis. WL2 and D:OS are PC exclusives and they have grid-based inventory.

[PrimeJunta]

deeper... and... deeper...

 

Scouting ahead with Yoshimo. Oh crap, umber hulks. Checks memorized spells. No Chaotic Commands memorized. No items that give immunity to Confusion. Don't wanna rest for this, so I do what any sensible inquisitor would: have Nalia cast Web from beyond visual range, and Aerie use that single-charge wand of Cloudkill to gas the nasty little creatures. Was just taking up inventory space anyway.

 

Proceeding...

 

Edit: sheeeit, one of them survived. Almost took Minsc down before I managed to clobber him. This is exciting!

Edited January 9, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Enoch]

 

Haha wow. Golems. This was my first save-and-reload-repeatedly encounter. Tried a few things, but it seems I just don't have any weapons that'll put a ding in that iron golem's armor. 

 

There's one in the room they are in lol ... it's on one of those pedestals

 

It's the Warhammer +1; +4 vs Giantkin

 

While I believe you that this works, as a mechanical matter, it's not very clear at all to a player that it would.  Golems don't sound like they would be considered "Giantkin," so one would guess that it would only be +1 against them.  Why would a player think to try it after discovering that their other +1 weapons were ineffective?

 

I'm guessing that this is essentially an exploit-- it only works because the engine can't accomodate different enchantment levels for immunity purposes on the same item. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Enoch

[Cubiq]

There's one in the room they are in lol ... it's on one of those pedestals

 

It's the Warhammer +1; +4 vs Giantkin

Guess he missed flail of ages as well...

[Cubiq]

@PrimeJunta

Before you leave the keep look for a furnace (not the kitchen) on the ground floor and try to find a way to use it for something, you won't regret it.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Cubiq

[500MetricTonnes]

... continuing ...

 

Haha wow. Golems. This was my first save-and-reload-repeatedly encounter. Tried a few things, but it seems I just don't have any weapons that'll put a ding in that iron golem's armor. So I had Iggy glug a potion of Speed, go ... 

 

 

... grab the loot, scoot back out, with the rest of the party safely in the little room nearby, out of reach of Mr. Iron Golem's farts. Dismantled the other golems, left the big one stomping around angrily in the courtyard. (It must've been assembled there as it wouldn't fit through the secret door.) 

 

Anyway, that was fun. Take-home point: you can put really mean monsters in, as long as they're not blocking progress.

 

Onward.

If you don't want to fight the golems, just have your cleric cast Sanctuary, then have them run in and grab the loot while your party members remain out of sight.

 

And if you think Iron Golems are bad, just wait until you encounter Adamantite Golems, which can only be hit with +3 weapons or better, and have 90% resistance to all forms of physical damage.

[Enoch]

Isn't one of the FoA heads in that very room?  So he'd have to run in, grab the loot, run downstairs, forge the Flail, and then go back and smack the Golem with it? 

 

PJ did what most players without AD&D metaknowledge would do-- first try the approach they use with nearly every other creature they encounter.  After the Golem smacks them down, they reload and maybe try to look for a different way around it.  (And, as he said, it was fun.)

 

He's not looking for tips-- he's exploring a game with fresh eyes and a critical mindset. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Enoch

[Cubiq]

Isn't one of the FoA heads in that very room?  So he'd have to run in, grab the loot, run downstairs, forge the Flail, and then go back and smack the Golem with it?

Yes the xp you get at this level is worth it.

 

And i said he missed it because he's already at the umber hulks

Edited January 9, 2015 by Cubiq

[Sensuki]

I just man fight the Umber Hulks in there lol, it's not that hard. You can pull a few of them at a time as well. I think Potion of Mirrored Eyes works too, IIRC.

[archangel979]

 

 

2. BG1 is a tutorial for BG2. Bioware never meant for people to play BG2 directly. And even if you did, between Irenicus dungeon and manual (it was normal to read the manual then) you learned all you needed to learn. If still a problem, you could lower the difficulty.

Neither BG1 nor Irenicus dungeon teach how to efficiently handle a mage hiding behind several layers of defensive buffs, and lowering the difficulty barely helps on that point. While the manual does give all the info needed, it's just buried in the huge spell list.

I am interested a lot about "how to properly fight in IE games" part just to compare it to my own experiences

Whatever works.

I half remember my first completed BG2 playthrough more than ten years ago, when I never cast buffs or status effect, brute-forced enemy mages' defensive buffs or waited for them to wear off on their own. Replaying now, with all my fancy Stoneskin, Chaos, True Sight, Breach and Pierce Magic, I wonder how I managed to finish it back then. I think that was thanks to spell books filled to the brim with summoning spells, a tactic I borrowed from my previous BG1 playthrough.

Funny post. First you say Bg1 was not the tutorial and than you say you passed challenges using things you learned from BG1?!

 

Isn't it glorious that Bg2 let you beat challenges in multiple very different ways? Also Bg1 supported it.

 

Will PoE support this?

[Cubiq]

I just man fight the Umber Hulks in there lol, it's not that hard. You can pull a few of them at a time as well. I think Potion of Mirrored Eyes works too, IIRC.

It was only last year that i discovered you can actually cook a dog stew for them

I can't believe i still find new stuff in the game.

[PrimeJunta]

Proceeding.  Had Minsc glug a couple potions to get him back on his feet. Scouting with Yoshimo. Cells, umber hulk feeding spot, could probably do something with this but what, hmm, and behind this door... an ominous hall... sneak sneak sneak... oops, discovered, it's the boss, a talkative troll. 

 

Fight ensues. Yoshimo runs back to the party, pulls Boss Troll with him. Hahaa, both Aerie and Nalia have some Melf's Special Troll Remedy memorized, and start spamming those while Iggy, still on speed, wails away with that annoyingly talkative two-hander, Jaheira casts a bug swarm, and Yoshimo pelts him with fire arrows 'cuz I have lots. 

 

That didn't last... very long. Finish off the two giant trolls who for some reason didn't follow their boss, and we're about finished here. Still have these three flail pieces I meant to assemble though, so gonna do that. Also, both Iggy and Minsc went up a level. Both also get a proficiency pip. Gonna give MInsc, umm, flail, but what to give Iggy?

 

... annnd ... here's another of my pet peeves: the trap weapon choices. I'm really nervous about this one. I want to pick another two-handed weapon because I already have a pip in two-handed weapon style, and also it makes it easy to switch between main and ranged. But which one? I've been bit in the posterior with bad weapon proficiencly choices before. 

 

Since I've got two pips in two-hander, I'd want a two-handed bludgeoning weapon. The only one is quarterstaff, but most good quarterstaves are either druid or wizard only; I just learned this in IWD the hard way. What to do, what to do... cheat. Googling quarterstaves in BG2. ... glance through a couple on the list ... hey cool, there are high-level quarterstaves usable by paladins here. Quarterstaff it is then. 

 

So, off to make a flail.

[Stun]

Ugh.... The artstyle of the enhanced edition of BG2 makes my eyes bleed.

 

Anyway....

somehow I was entirely surrounded and mixed in with baddies, who croaked Aerie before I had time to hit the pause key. She wasn't in the best of health because I wasn't resting, being in a hurry to get to the keep. And of course Raise Dead (or Jaheira's equivalent) doesn't work on elves. So, reload.

Ok, I see how this thread is shaping up. So I will preface my response to this particular 'point' of yours with 4 things that should be GIVENS to anyone who claims to want an honest debate.

 

1) BG2 is real time with pause.

2) BG2 does not reward reckless non-thinkers.

3) There's a counter to everything in BG2.

4) Raise dead and resurrection work on ANY party member unless they get chunked.

 

So....what happened to Aerie in your game? She died? Ok... why? Wait. I'll tell you why. She died because of #2. You decided to travel across the map when someone in your party is hanging on to life by a thread. Silly. Aerie herself is a healer. Why didn't you have her cast cure light (or moderate, or serious) wounds on herself while walking to the edge of the city gates? Actually forget about that. There's no excuse for her dying in that encounter EVEN if she begins it with 1hp. (see #1 and #3). You could have made use of the auto-pause settings. Set the game to pause on enemy sighted. Problem solved. Hell, forget about that. Aerie is a Cleric/Mage, which means you just weren't thinking. Sanctuary is a 1st level cleric spell. Invisibility is a second level mage spell. Stone skin is a 4th level mage spell....and it has a casting time of 1, which means you wouldn't have been interrupted.... and once cast, she becomes immune to the blows of the melee guys surrounding her...for several rounds.... long enough for her to mirror image herself.... then heal herself then blast every enemy in that encounter out of existence.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Stun

[Stun]

... annnd ... here's another of my pet peeves: the trap weapon choices. I'm really nervous about this one. I want to pick another two-handed weapon because I already have a pip in two-handed weapon style, and also it makes it easy to switch between main and ranged. But which one? I've been bit in the posterior with bad weapon proficiencly choices before.

That's a non issue in BG2 and you know it.

[sibakruom]

Funny post. First you say Bg1 was not the tutorial and than you say you passed challenges using things you learned from BG1?!

 

Isn't it glorious that Bg2 let you beat challenges in multiple very different ways? Also Bg1 supported it.

 

Will PoE support this?

 

 

I said "efficiently handle." When they created mage battles, I'd wager BioWare didn't have in mind players standing outside the enemy mage's field of vision, sending one summon at a time to get killed, making the mage waste their powerful offensive spells on sacrifices while their defensive spells slowly wore off, before eventually summoning a Fire Elemental to finish the fight. That was abuse of the AI, not clever design.