Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity

[Sensuki]

Kensai or Kensai/Mage is super fun (and a lot easier than many of the other classes). Sorcerer is also really good. I like Undead Hunters as well.

 

Assassins are also great. Ranger/Cleric is supposed to be pretty good too, but I've only played one in BG1 and IWD1.

 

I also highly, highly recommend Two-Weapon Fighting

 

Oh yeah Monks are cool too.

 

I would also try doing the Kalah quest with the pointers that I think Mr. Magniloquent or Stun gave you. You can also do the slaver quest in the Copper Coronet in 'reverse order', meaning that you can either do the Copper Coronet back room stuff first and then go through the sewers, OR you can go outside the Copper Coronet, kill the slaver guard outside their compound, pick the lock to the door and go in that way then go through the sewers and come out in the back rooms of the Copper Coronet (just make sure you talk to Lehtinan first so he gives you access and stuff too).

 

I would advise taking some side trips to the Graveyard (find the Crypt King's Tomb) and maybe to the Crooked Crane Inn in the City Gates and find the secret door there. If you're going to do the Temple District stuff, go to the Guarded Compound before the sewers IMO.

 

The Bridge District quests are also pretty easy, and one of them (which you get from below the Inn) takes you to the Sewers in the Temple District anyway.

 

I'd also swing by the Government District and have a look at Viconia and Jan Jansen too.

 

So yeah ... after you do the slaver stuff, don't commit to any quest straight away - it's not necessary. You can do your own exploring.

 

Trademeet and the Umar Hills content are fairly suitable for around level 8-9 as well. Windpear Hills is a bit harder.

 

edit 3: Also I don't know if you knew, but you can buy a license in the government district to cast spells outside in the city for 5,000 GP.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sensuki

[Sensuki]

Here are the proper links sorry:

 

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=696

 

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=695

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sensuki

[Sarex]

Vanilla Paladin is the way to go (I recommend going Carsomyr).

[PrimeJunta]

@Sensuki Thanks, those links worked.

 

Any thoughts on mage/thief? One of my annoyances was scouting; Nalia was terrible at it and Yoshimo wasn't so good either. I'd like to have hide/move silently/find traps high enough for my scout that I don't need to do that click-wait-click-wait thing to successfully stealth. OTOH thieves aren't much fun in combat because of the THAC0.

 

Don't want to dual-class, I hate hate hate the part when they're baggage.

[sibakruom]

I would advise taking some side trips to the Graveyard (find the Crypt King's Tomb) and maybe to the Crooked Crane Inn in the City Gates and find the secret door there. If you're going to do the Temple District stuff, go to the Guarded Compound before the sewers IMO.

 

Let's be realistic here. Neither the Guarded Compound nor the Crooked Crane Inn are appropriate for low level parties. Of course, they're feasible (what isn't?), but on a blind playthrough they will take several die-and-try-again.

[Sarex]

Of course, they're feasible (what isn't?), but on a blind playthrough they will take several die-and-try-again.

 

Isn't that what's fun about them?

[Sensuki]

@Sensuki Thanks, those links worked.

 

Any thoughts on mage/thief? One of my annoyances was scouting; Nalia was terrible at it and Yoshimo wasn't so good either. I'd like to have hide/move silently/find traps high enough for my scout that I don't need to do that click-wait-click-wait thing to successfully stealth. OTOH thieves aren't much fun in combat because of the THAC0.

 

Don't want to dual-class, I hate hate hate the part when they're baggage.

Yeah I'm not big on Mage/Thief. Not really my thing, but I'm sure it's pretty good if you pick the right spells (such as Tenser's Transformation and stuff like that).

 

Assassins have poison which is really effective, and at higher levels they can use any item - which is really good and makes up for the THAC0 deficiency.

 

Let's be realistic here. Neither the Guarded Compound nor the Crooked Crane Inn are appropriate for low level parties. Of course, they're feasible (what isn't?), but on a blind playthrough they will take several die-and-try-again.

There's nothing about the Guarded Compound that's hard counter related - it's all about movement, positioning, targeting priority and spell use.

 

Crooked Crane is a different story, but it's a lot easier than other encounters of that type. Very easy to beat actually.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sensuki

[PrimeJunta]

Looked at Assassin. How do you get around the lousy THAC0?

[PrimeJunta]

Fuuuu... fine, I'll give it a shot. Despite it not being your thing, going with a mage/thief. Neutral Evil just to be a not-paladin and see if the game has more to offer on that side.

[Sensuki]

You backstab as much as possible. Thief play in BG2 can be pretty good but you have to make good use of either Stealth or Invisibility Potions (just buy a stack of them, and keep repeating it).

 

Assassin's can get up to x7 Backstab multiplier and their poison on top of that makes for some nasty stuff. There are some enemy types you can't backstab though.

 

I *think* if you go an Elf, you get +1 bonus with Long Swords and Bows in BG2:EE ?? as well so that sort of makes up for it. I think there's a few Assassin guides out there. I think Stalkers and Fighter/Thieves are better at straight combat.

 

Btw, if you get stuck just do a few searches and you might find some tips

 

eg: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13301/mage-thief-discussion

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sensuki

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Fine, but how am I supposed to know which order I'm supposed to play them? ("By playing it repeatedly.") ("But I much prefer the feeling of discovering new things to playing through stuff repeatedly.")

 

You can skip most of the quests in chapter 2 and go straight to Spell hold. After the Underdark and when you come back to Athkatla, you can do those quests from Chapter 2 in Chapter 6. It's up to you how you want to play.

 

eg. Do I want Imoen in my party as a companion? Yes or No?

 

If my answer is yes, Do I go straight away? I can skip nearly everything in Chapter 2, go to Spell hold, pick her up and then go back and do all those quests I missed.

If I think she'll be okay for the time being before rescuing her, I can decide to pick up a few companions and do some quests before hand.

If I don't want her as a companion, then I'll forget about Imoen and may decide to do everything in Athkatla and the surrounding areas.

 

The good thing is I can do those side quests at the beginning of the game or near the end of the game. And I think that's great.

[Luckmann]

You backstab as much as possible. Thief play in BG2 can be pretty good but you have to make good use of either Stealth or Invisibility Potions (just buy a stack of them, and keep repeating it).

 

Assassin's can get up to x7 Backstab multiplier and their poison on top of that makes for some nasty stuff. There are some enemy types you can't backstab though.

 

I *think* if you go an Elf, you get +1 bonus with Long Swords and Bows in BG2:EE ?? as well so that sort of makes up for it. I think there's a few Assassin guides out there. I think Stalkers and Fighter/Thieves are better at straight combat.

 

Btw, if you get stuck just do a few searches and you might find some tips

 

eg: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13301/mage-thief-discussion

Elves get +1 with Longswords and Longbows, afaik, yeah. I believe it's unlisted for some damn reason.

 

Dammit you people, now you are making me want to play Baldur's Gate II again.

 

Not sure whether I should go Assassin or Undead Hunter.

 

Is Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition worth it over BG2 with Mods? I've heard some good with the bad and vice versa.

 

Edit: I checked out the "features" for BG2:EE, saw the UI on a Let's Play on YouTube and just nope nope nope nope noope. BG2:ToB with Mods it is.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Luckmann

[GordonHalfman]

Mage Thief can be sort of fun, since you can mem a bunch of invisibility spells and use them to repeatedly go for backstabs in the fight,  and early game you can get the arbane sword and cast webs everywhere like a fighter mage would. Unfortunately your THACO will be lousy though unless you use Tensers which is a level 6 spell. Although you can use items and priest buffs to help as well. Fighter-Thief is probably the best thief class, they can dual weild and get 2 attacks per round. Multi-class in general is good at the start of SoA but starts to fall off a bit because of the way the leveling curve works. (It's a long time between levels in the second half of the game.) 

 

If you like thieves and bards you can consider the rogue rebalancing mod:

 

http://avenger981.github.io/doc/readme_rr.html

 

It has some cool stuff, designed to make single class rogues more viable. Crucially it adds dual wielding, which is straight up better in this game unfortunately. 

 

I also liked the spell revisions and item revisions mods over at gibberlings3. These are more for experienced players just to give the game a different look.

[Luckmann]

Anyone else have troubles with the Spellhold Studios site? It always loads alright at first, but then I get "Disallowed Key Characters" no matter what I do. Tried different browsers, but problem persists.

[prodigydancer]

Playing as a paladin was clearly a mistake, since the game doesn't actually let me play as a paladin.

BG2 doesn't let you play a one-dimensional LG-bound freak. If that's how far your definition of Paladin class goes, it's probably a bad idea to roll a paladin in any game.

 

But don't be so upset - it's a very common mistake. Many people think that playing a paladin is about casting Detect Evil before talking to anyone and, in general, smiting some "evil" at every corner. "Hey you! You, crossing the road in the wrong place! Feel my holy wrath!"

Edited January 11, 2015 by prodigydancer

[Sensuki]

The Un-Nerfed THAC0 by Blucher component of BG2 Tweaks is really good for offsetting THAC0 issues.

[Jarmo]

:shrug: Fair enough. I was playing it wrong.

 

Be as it may, I was disappointed that the game did not acknowledge my choice of alignment and class in any way, and the only options offered were "accept quest/don't accept quest."

 

The last time I played BG2 was with a scounderlish character, fighter mage multiclass or something, lying thieving kind of guy.

Which I picked for RP reasons, (we are stealing everything not nailed down, after all, attacking with little provocation and so.)

 

So I was perfectly happy saying I'll take the quest, assuming I'll get to talk with the wizard and find out what's going on.

Didn't even occur to me I'm bound by my word and actually on an assassination mission.

 

So it's not just playing the paladin wrong. It's the game,

[Starwars]

 

Playing as a paladin was clearly a mistake, since the game doesn't actually let me play as a paladin.

BG2 doesn't let you play a one-dimensional LG-bound freak. If that's how far your definition of Paladin class goes, it's probably a bad idea to roll a paladin in any game.

 

But don't be so upset - it's a very common mistake. Many people think that playing a paladin is about casting Detect Evil before talking to anyone and, in general, smiting some "evil" at every corner. "Hey you! You, crossing the road in the wrong place! Feel my holy wrath!"

 

 

What BG2 offers in roleplaying is a *lot* more limiting than simply not being able to play a "one-dimensional LG-bound freak". Choices in quests is not something BG2 does well generally.

 

In my mind, the game excels at exploration and its large sense of scale. Not because it offers multitudes of ways to solve things.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Starwars

[sibakruom]

Is Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition worth it over BG2 with Mods? I've heard some good with the bad and vice versa.

 

Playing it right now. It's not bad - I mean, it's still BG2 - but it's probably not worth the price tag.

Aside from the bugfixes and widescreen, there's a slightly improved AI for boss battles - all of which can be modded in BG2 AFAIK. The only real difference are the four new companions and their personal quests. Those quests are quite a bit longer than the personal quests of the original companions, and they also continue in ToB. However, their recruitement quests are a lot shorter (no equivalent to the Planar Sphere or De'Arnise Keep, for example).

[Jarmo]

Don't want to dual-class, I hate hate hate the part when they're baggage.

 

Not sure if I remember correctly, but couldn't you take a bunch of the first class in the beginning and almost immediately reach the same level with the second class. Could you even do the switch in character creation?

[Sensuki]

No it's not the game. There is no strict rule that all quests in all games should be able to completed and reward XP for all available outcomes. The fact of the matter is, if you do not murder Rayic Gethras or tell Edwin to - you cannot complete the Mae'Var questline.

Rayic Gethras attacks you anyway because he's a Cowled Wizard, he has scrying abilities. He knows that you've been hired to assassinate him (even if you didn't intend to) and is unreasonable about it. I think that's fair enough.

There are several moments like that in other games I can think of too, it's just that because they're presented in 3D usually 1st/3rd person, you don't think about the gameplay and choices the same way that you might in the Infinity Engine games. Sure, it would be nice if there were more options - but you could say that about literally any quest in any game.

 

Both the Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate games have dialogue options that are the best/winning option - that's just how they did it back then. Yes, I agree that it's nice that we've now moved on from those days in regards to how quests are structured, but we often do not get the sprawling multi-part/multi-map quests that BG2 gave us and we certainly don't get anywhere near as good gameplay in anything.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Sensuki

[PrimeJunta]

 

Playing as a paladin was clearly a mistake, since the game doesn't actually let me play as a paladin.

BG2 doesn't let you play a one-dimensional LG-bound freak. If that's how far your definition of Paladin class goes, it's probably a bad idea to roll a paladin in any game.

 

But don't be so upset - it's a very common mistake. Many people think that playing a paladin is about casting Detect Evil before talking to anyone and, in general, smiting some "evil" at every corner. "Hey you! You, crossing the road in the wrong place! Feel my holy wrath!"

 

If you read this thread, you'd find out that I attempted to have my paladin infiltrate the Shadow Thieves and Mae'varis's outfit in order to rat both out to the Cowled Wizards so they would take them down. The game did not let me, and several people on this thread objected loudly that a paladin couldn't do that to start with. One of them went as far as to say that accepting to work for Bloodscalp would have been an automatic fall from grace in PnP.

 

I.e., it's not my idea of what a paladin can or can't do that you're arguing with.

[Sensuki]

You wouldn't be able to do that in Icewind Dale 2 either, pretty sure you have to act very bluntly as a Paladin in IWD2, you can't accept certain rewards and you have to say certain dialogue options to certain people IIRC.

[archangel979]

There is a huge difference between smiting anyone that registers on a detect evil and being a undercover cop.

Prodigy was talking about all the stuff in between.

 

As for your next play take a Blade. Lots of fun character.

Edited January 11, 2015 by archangel979

[Luckmann]

 

Don't want to dual-class, I hate hate hate the part when they're baggage.

 

Not sure if I remember correctly, but couldn't you take a bunch of the first class in the beginning and almost immediately reach the same level with the second class. Could you even do the switch in character creation?

 

 

Annoyingly, BG2 doesn't allow you to dual-class on character creation. Importing a BG1 character has some very notable perks compared to creating a BG2 character, most notably the +1 Tomes and being able to dual-class at lower levels than 6 or 7.

 

That said, "the part when they're baggage" is extremely short depending on when or where you decide to do it. Starting as one class and instantly changing into a dual-class is actually extremely advantageous in BG2, if you can stand the fact that you'll never be able to give yourself a Kit on your second class (Hahaha, Shadowkeeper, you so funny).

 

 

I picked up Sarevok in ToB and dual-classed him into a Thief just so I'd eventually be able to give him Use Any Item, and he got over those dead levels remarkably fast due to the way experience works in BG1/2.

 

 

This all reminds me that I think I'm actually going to start as a straight Fighter and then Dual-Class into Assassin at lvl 7 or 9.