Priests - Thoughts and Issues

[Luckmann]

I thought we'd take some time to look at the Priest, and I wanted to share some preliminary thoughts of my own. First, I want to make it clear that I have very little play experience with the Priest, and my assertions may be faulty to some degree or another.

 

There may also be outstanding issues that merits discussion, that I know nothing about. Please raise those issues or point them out so they can be looked at. In particular, I have no problem with saying that I know jack squat about the quality of the spell selection, for example.

 

I've come to think of two issues that I consider notable:

First, the Priest has a number of "Dead" levelups. Going through the levels:

1. Creation. Here, the Priest get's it's First-Level spells and gets to pick a Deity. Notable to me is that even though a Deity should be a major choice for a Priest and - roleplaying wise - it may be, it has no immediate or noticeable effect. It affects what unique Talent you can pick (although odds are that there's really no point). Many other classes either get to pick an Ability out of a minimum of two, pick spells for their spellbook, or choose chants. The Priest gets to tick a deity that may give you access to a Talent that may or may not appeal to you.
2. You spend Skill Points and pick a Talent. Alright.
3. You spend Skill Points and you gain access to Second-Level spells. That's it. While that sounds significant (and probably is) it is done practically without input from the player. There is no choice, you don't pick Abilities or choose what to add to your Spell Book, you get Second-Level Spells, full access no choices. The only single thing you do on this level is spend Skill Points.
4. You spend Skill Points and you gain a Talent. Fair enough.
5. You spend Skill Points and... Third-Level spells. Again. Done. From a player input, character build and levelup perspective, this is again a dead level.
6. Again, Skill Points and Talent. Note that by now you'll probably be hoarding Skill Points for next level, so you'll probably not spend any anyway.
7. Again, Skill Points, Fourth-Level spells and no input.
8. Again, Skill Points and Talent.

Aside from the notable emphasis on every-other-level resulting in a wide swing in potential power (the access to new Spells at a New Level is easily a "high point" in power increase compared to a single new Talent), this is actually terrible. Every levelup should be meaningful to some degree and include input from the player.

 

While Talents can have a fair degree of effect on how a character plays, odds are that any two Priests will be very similar, bar choices that aren't actually associated with builds mechanically (such as your choice of weapon, what armour you wear, etc).

 

This is very late in development, so I realize that it is unlikely that the Priest will get any overhaul in these regards to a meaninful degree, but possible solutions would be to grant a Deity-specific power or Ability to emphasize that different Priests are different, and to give the player more of a sense of meaning already in creation, in their choice of Deity. Another possibility would be to add Deity-specific spells for each level, that may have to be chosen when gaining a new Spell-Level.

 

Second, the optional Deity-specific Talents are notably lackluster in some regards. Let's review them:

• Berath, The Palid Hand: Accuracy bonus with Mace and Great Sword, can cast a form of Concelhaunt's Corrosive Siphon.
• Magran, Inspired Flame: Accuracy bonus with Sword and Arquebus, can cast a form of Burst of Summer Flame.
• Ondra, Hope Eternal: Accuracy bonus with Flail and Morning Star, can cast a special healing spell that shortens the effects of Frightened and Terrified.
• Skaen, Prey on the Weak: Accuracy bonus for Stiletto and Club, and grants Minor Sneak Attack (similar to the Rogue).
• Wael, Incomprehensible Revelation: Accuracy bonus with Quarterstaff and Rod, and can cast a form of Arkemyr's Dazzling.

Now, knowing so little about the select spells themselves, it is entirely possible that those are wildly underpowered or overpowered, but my primary concern isn't first and foremost that, but rather that there's a pretty wide discrepancy in who gets what. Skaen gets an interesting Passive, that may actually influence how the character plays. Ondra actually gets a special spell, not just a modified or baby version of a pre-existing spell, even though it's somewhat lackluster, being a "simple" Healing Spell, it is still unique.

 

Several get at least some good options in terms of weapons, such as Berath and Ondra (although it's arguable that Flail and Morning Star are too similar), while Wael gets... Quarterstaff and Rod? Also, Magran gets Sword and Arquebus, but not Pistol and Blunderbuss? While mechanically appropriate (everyone gets 2) it is very conceptually questionable.

 

The Priest does not have the same Accuracy as, for example, a Paladin, and I don't think it should have. But at the same time, it is a Talent that needs to be spent (and you can pick very few talents), that gives you added accuracy in two weapons.

 

Personally, I would see nothing wrong with extending it to four weapons each, if one chooses to become a warrior of the Faith, with each deity-talent being centered around a theme (which should be obvious; Sword, Arquebus, Pistols and Blunderbuss for Magran, Stiletto, Club, Daggers and Hatchets for Skaen, etc). Additionally, each one of them should give an effect or ability that is functionally unique in some way, not simply lesser versions of pre-existing powers.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Sensuki]

I don't really care too much about the odd style of level ups (the Druid is the same) as I'm more interested in how they actually play. I do agree that the Deity-specific Talents could use a bit of tweaking.

 

For The Pallid Hand - Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon isn't a very good spell to begin with.

Inspired Flame is fine

Hope Eternal is good

Prey on the Weak is really good, but light weapons in general are pretty weak, and Clubs are *only* useful when dual wielded against enemies in Chainmail.

Incomprehensible Revelation is okay, but Rods are just bad on anyone but a Wizard with the Blast talent.

It does feel strange that none of them have bonus accuracy with a War Hammer.

[Luckmann]

And of course I completely and utterly missed the one thing that actually sparked the thread.

Yeah, it feels very odd that none of them have bonus accuracy with War Hammers.

 

I realize it's not DnD, I realize that it might not fit one of the chosen gods like a glove, but a Cleric with a Warhammer is so iconic that I think it'd be strange to leave it out.

 

Also, the Talents and their benefits should be mentioned in the discription of each of the Deities upon character creation. Without prior knowledge of the rules, there's actually no way someone would know that Magran would favour Arquebus (Arquebuses? Arquebi?) and Swords, or Berath maces. It is very possible someone chooses to take Magran as their Deity, but actually consider the use of Maces (Berath) more integral to their idea of what they want to play.

As it is right now, he could go through the entire game not knowing that had he only taken Berath, he could've used Maces to his heart's content.

[Sensuki]

I'd actually prefer if Magran was War Hammer over a Sword, because that's what Cadegund used in her concept art and I generally find War Hammers more useful in the game so far anyway.

[Osvir]

 

1. Creation. Here, the Priest get's it's First-Level spells and gets to pick a Deity. Notable to me is that even though a Deity should be a major choice for a Priest and - roleplaying wise - it may be, it has no immediate or noticeable effect. It affects what unique Talent you can pick (although odds are that there's really no point). Many other classes either get to pick an Ability out of a minimum of two, pick spells for their spellbook, or choose chants. The Priest gets to tick a deity that may give you access to a Talent that may or may not appeal to you.
2. You spend Skill Points and you gain access to Second-Level spells. That's it. While that sounds significant (and probably is) it is done practically without input from the player. There is no choice, you don't pick Abilities or choose what to add to your Spell Book, you get Second-Level Spells, full access no choices. The only single thing you do on this level is spend Skill Points.m a player input, character build and levelup perspective, this is again a dead level.
3. Again, Skill Points, Fourth-Level spells and no input.

Yep, the dead levels, excellently put. Same with Druid, lost potential in my opinion.

 

Deities:

IF Obsidian would do try "Spell Point per level" gain thing on level up (Like Wizard, Chanter, Cipher), they could even lock some (1 or 2?) spells to a specific deity, to make them ever so slightly more varied. Heck, they could even try this even if they don't try the "spell point per level". It'd make the Priests more interesting too, I think.

[PrimeJunta]

Yeh, the priest could use some spicing up. The spell selection is highly useful, even borderline essential, but there's not a whole lot of pizzazz to it. In combat, usually the most advantageous thing for a priest to do is to cast a buff, so that's what she keeps on doing. This is not at all like DnD priests which can -- even in AD&D, by making a fighter/priest -- skew in all kinds of directions, from pure spellcasting (offense/defense/debuff/heal) to self-buff + melee, to even utility (I had a cleric/thief in my latest IWD playthrough and he did the job great).

 

I think your ideas about the choice deity changing important features about it is a good one (cf. spheres in DnD3). As it is I can't really see making a priestly PC, although I'd def. want one in the party.

[Sensuki]

Actually if you haven't already, try the spell Iconic Projection AFTER the initial melee has settled. Way better than casting a single heal and it damages every enemy in the ray. The damage is also Foe only.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Sensuki

[PrimeJunta]

Okay, I was overstating the case. Iconic Projection is good, as is the one that deals bludeoning damage and knocks enemies down. But still, where's mah Rigid Thinking, Hold Person, and Dominate?

[Sensuki]

Don't worry, I absolutely agree with you there.

[illathid]

About the "dead" levels when you get new spells. What if they had something like domain spells from D&D 3e/3.5e? Give you a choice of two spells based on your God, pick one. They could even take the spells from other spell lists like they did in D&D.

[Sock]

Really, I'd prefer to see their spells revisioned.

 

Let your spell selection reflect the diety you've chosen. There are, of course, "general" cleric spells, like healing and blessing and so on and so forth, but perhaps all things related to Fear should be tied to Skaen, etc.

 

Or maybe your diety choice includes a modifier to related spells? For example, pick Ondra and all heals have a larger AoE.

[White Phoenix]

I played beta with priests many times (it will be my class for first play-through in full PE) and here is what I think:

 

• Spells are really good and have benefit I don't see in IE games: I use spells from lower level all the time (in Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale I really did it rarely, because they were weak comparing to powerful toys from higher levels if I got them). Priest spells are not 'copy' of themselves in more powerful version (maybe some of them are, but not majority). And everything is AOE (I love AOE, hate single healing in IE). I wish only there were spells specific for chosen deity (maybe on higher levels, one per level in the future or added by modding).
• Talents - a lot of talents to build your priest as you wish, so much choices (as a whole). But I don't like 'cut' abilities (i.e. Interdiction) which were made talents (what for?). There could be changes for spells as wizards have (it would distinguish specific gods followed by player, for example Magran priests possess stronger burn effect in their spells, and so on). I wish only to see more talents specific for chosen god than the only one (Hope Eternal for Eothas, not Ondra, disappointed  me. What it had to be? I expected some offensive spell like for the rest of gods. Nevermind, maybe there will be more talents, I heard paladins have two for each order.
• And Iconic Projection rocks! I never used it until now. This spell is overpowered. 99% of won battles, saving ass of my party.
• And rod for Wael follower is... odd. Maybe there should be some fast weapon? And if I remember correctly none of gods has a spear or pike as a preferred weapon.

 That's all I think and wanted to ask - has Might (Damage and Healing) any effect on priest's healing abilities? I built him with high Might but didn't notice changes (expect for being 'killing machine' if added high Perception too). I always kept it not so high as Intellect or Resolve. Maybe it affects only paladin abilities?

Edited January 8, 2015 by White Phoenix

[Sensuki]

I like the deity spell idea on odd levels. I would support that. It is probably too late now though but yeah.

 

I do like the fact that Priests get access to all their spells, it's quite handy. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Sensuki

[DigitalCrack]

Deity specific spells would be the thing that takes the priest to a chanter level of interesting.  Honestly if both the paladin's orders and priest's deities were distinct and unique from each as far as what they added to the class, it would make them feel a lot less generic.  Maybe there are plans to do this that we simply haven't seen.  Right now what you have are these interesting history and back-stories to pick from and then the character immersion they create is broken and the mystique gone once you realize your the same as any other priest or paladin sub choice.  Sure maybe there are some dialogue choice specific to what you choose, but how your character plays and the talents and abilities available should reflect the ideology you chose for your character too.

[NikoBolas]

I agree it would be more interesting if each deity granted a specific spell at each level, that was only available to its followers. That way picking a deity felt more important (I'm picking this deity and getting this spell) and getting new spell levels would also be slightly more exciting (what spell does my deity give me now that I have 2nd level spells?). I really like the idea of making this class shift more based on the deity choice while still sticking with an overall class mold. Having access to slightly different spells and different talents seems to be fitting with the legacy of IE games. Even different weapon proficiencies would be neat (and a god of war should allow a priest to take weapon focus and more martial talents).

[Pray]

I don't really care too much about the odd style of level ups (the Druid is the same) as I'm more interested in how they actually play. I do agree that the Deity-specific Talents could use a bit of tweaking.

 

For The Pallid Hand - Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon isn't a very good spell to begin with.

Inspired Flame is fine

Hope Eternal is good

Prey on the Weak is really good, but light weapons in general are pretty weak, and Clubs are *only* useful when dual wielded against enemies in Chainmail.

Incomprehensible Revelation is okay, but Rods are just bad on anyone but a Wizard with the Blast talent.

 

It does feel strange that none of them have bonus accuracy with a War Hammer.

A lot of players really enjoy having the feel of creating their party and controlling the strengths/weaknesses of their party - IE, forming how that party member plays in an example of this.

 

I think the OP's point is excellent, personally.

[Sensuki]

I'm interested in balanced choices. Deity specific spells would be a great fit for the off-level, but since Obsidian didn't implement them already, there's virtually no chance of seeing anything of the sort until the expansion.

[Osvir]

I like the deity spell idea on odd levels. I would support that. It is probably too late now though but yeah.

 

I do like the fact that Priests get access to all their spells, it's quite handy. 

It is convenient, but it also restricts/limits build variations. It is most likely easier to design like this as well, and the strain on the Player too! Having a Priest, Druid & Wizard in a party would be a chore to level up. Gaining all Spells at once is probably the simplest design solution, for both developer and Player alike, and solves most problems in a broad sense.

 

About deity spells, well... as the wannabe designer I am, I can't help to take a peek at the Priest regardless (even if it is too late, this is just hobbyist~), and see if you can mix-match and narratively/thematically fit in "Deity Spells" using the already existant ones (which could later be a great foundation for future builds, spell mods and/or expansion). 

 

1st level Spells

 

 

• Armor of Faith – All allies in the area gain bonus Damage Threshold.
• Barbs of Condemnation – decreases the target's deflection, fortitude and reflexes.
• Blessing – Increases all defenses of all allies in the area.
• Divine Terror – All enemies in the area are Frightened for the duration.
• Halt – inflicts a single enemy with the affliction stuck for a short duration.
• Holy Meditation – Increases the Concentration of nearby allies.
• Prayer against Fear – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Frightened or Terrified afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Restore Minor Stamina – Restores Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Withdraw – Caster or ally is momentarily phased out (cannot act, cannot be targeted) and regenerates Stamina.

 

 

 

2nd level Spells

 

 

• Suppress Affliction – Hostile Effects are suspended for a short duration.
• Restore Light Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Consecrated Ground – Creates a long-lasting circle of Stamina regeneration on the ground for allies.
• Divine Mark – Blasts the target with Burn damage and reduces their Deflection for a short duration.
• Repulsing Seal – On contact with seal enemies will be knocked prone.
• Prayer against Infirmity– Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Weakened or Sickened afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Instill Doubt – dazes enemies in the area.
• Iconic Projection – a slow moving energy ball that is healing allies and damaging enemies.
• Holy Power – Allies' Might and Resolve are increased.

 

 

 

3rd level Spells

 

 

• Pillar of Faith – Does Crush damage to the target and knocks enemies Prone in a small area.
• Watchful Presence – All affected allies gain an effect on them that will last until the end of combat or until triggered. When any affected character drops below 20% Stamina, Watchful Presence will heal a significant amount of Stamina on the character.
• Warding Seal – If an enemy comes in contact with the seal it's explodes and deals shock damage.
• Restore Moderate Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Prayer against Restraint – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Hobbled or Stuck afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced by 10 seconds for Hobbled or 5 seconds for Stuck.
• Dire Blessing – Increases critical hit rate for allies.
• Circle of Protection – Grants allies a bonus to all defenses.
• Despondent Blows – lowers enemies melee accuracy and critical hit rate in the area.

 

 

 

 

4th level Spells

 

 

• Triumph of the Crusaders – Allies gain a bonus that restores Stamina every time they defeat an opponent. The ally must strike the "finishing" blow to gain the benefit.
• Prayer against Bewilderment – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Dazed or Confused afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Baring Death's Door – ally is immune and regenerates stamina.
• Devotions for the Faithful – Allies gain Might and Accuracy bonusses and enmies gain accuracy and Might penalties.
• Restore Major Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Searing Seal – If an enemy comes in contact with the seal it's explodes and deals burn damage and blinds the enemy.
• Shining Beacon – enemies in the area gain a penalty to all defenses and accure burn damage over time.

 

 

 

5th Spell Level

 

 

• Revive the Fallen – Revives and restores a modest amount of Stamina to unconscious allies in a small area. This has no effect on characters who have already been Maimed or Killed in combat.
• Salvation of Time – Extends the duration of all beneficial effects on allies.
• Champion's Boon – Grants a divine favor to an ally, imbuing him or her with a bonus to Might, Perception and all Damage Thresholds.
• Restore Critical Stamina
• Prayer Against Imprisonment – Instills a spirit of liberation in allies in the area of effect, granting a bonus against attacks with Paralyzed or Petrified afflictions and reducing the duration of any such afflictions currently on the target.
• Pillar of Holy Fire – Summons a flaming pillar of righteous anger, Burning enemies in the area of effect.
• Shields for the Faithful – Conjures a powerful holy shield, granting a Deflection bonus to all allies in the area of effect.

 

 

 

6th Spell Level

 

 

• Crowns for the Faithful – Increases the Perception, Intellect, and Resolve of all allies in the area.
• Cleansing Flame – Hurls a ball of holy fire at an enemy. It does continuous Burn damage to the target and reduces the duration of beneficial effects.
• Prayer Against Treachery – Galvanizes the devotion of the party, granting bonuses against attacks with Charm or Dominate afflictions as well as reducing the duration of any such afflictions already on the target.
• Minor Intercession – Calls upon the aid of the priest's god, restoring Stamina and reducing durations of negative effects for all allies in the area of effect.
• Spark the Souls of the Righteous – Ignites a powerful zeal within allies that manifests in an aura that Shocks any enemies near them.

 

 

 

These are the various Deities, compare with the lists above. I'll include those that I think fits in most, and exclude some to spread out:

 

(#) = Amount

 

Eothas

Renewal, Light, Community (Friendship?)

 

- [1st Level] Blessing, Holy Meditation, Prayer against Fear, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (5)

- [2nd Level] Supress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Concecrated Ground, Prayer against Infirmary, Iconic Projection (5)

- [3rd Level] Pillar of Faith, Restore Moderate Stamina, Prayer against Restraint, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Shining Beacon (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Restore Critical Stamina, Prayer against Imprisonment, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Magran

War, Fire, Strength, Bold/Witty

 

- [1st Level] Armor of Faith, Blessing, Holy Meditation, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (4)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Divine Mark, Holy Power (+1st Lvl Halt) (5)

- [3rd Level] Warding Seal, Restore Moderate Stamina, Dire Blessing, Despondent Blows (+2nd Lvl Repulsing Seal) (5)

- [4th Level] Triumph of the Crusaders, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Searing Seal (4)

- [5th Level] Champion's Boon, Restore Critical Stamina, Pillar of Holy Fire, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Cleansing Flame, Spark the Souls of the Righteous (+5th Lvl Revive the Fallen) (4)

 

Berath

Life, Death, Resolve

 

- [1st Level] Barbs of Condemnation, Halt, Prayer against Fear, Restore Minor Stamina (4)

- [2nd Level] Restore Light Stamina, Divine Mark, Prayer against Infirmity, Instill Doubt (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Restore Moderate Stamina, Prayer against Restraint, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Baring Death's Door, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Restore Critical Stamina, Prayer against Imprisonment, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Wael 

Dreams, Secrets, Mysteries, Revelations, (Illumination?)

 

- [1st Level] Armor of Faith, Blessing, Holy Meditation, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (5)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Consecrated Ground, Instill Doubt (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Restore Moderate Stamina, Dire Blessing, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Shining Beacon (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Salvation of Time, Restore Critical Stamina, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Skaen

Hatred, Resentment, Violence, Rebellion

 

- [1st Level] Barbs of Condemnation, Divine Terror, Withdraw (3)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Replusing Seal, Instill Doubt (+1st Lvl Restore Minor Stamina) (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Warding Seal, Dire Blessing (+2nd Lvl Restore Light Stamina) (4)

- [4th Level] Triumph of the Crusaders, Devotions for the Faithful, Searing Seal(+3rd Lvl Restore Moderate Stamina) (3)

- [5th Level] Champion's Boon, Pillar of Holy Fire, Shields for the Faithful(+4th Lvl Restore Major Stamina) (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Cleansing Flame, Spark the Souls of the Righteous (+5th Lvl Revive the Fallen) (4)

 

// I made these on the go, I haven't reviewed them (I have 2 windows open side-by-side). 4, mostly, per level? Why? The list simply formed that way. Tried keeping it to each Deity's "theme", from my perspective.

 

As I was tinkering with the Skaen list (which is the least fleshed out and, I admit, rushed) I started thinking on another aspect when giving all spells on every odd level (and reviewed & editted Magran).

 

Does all spells have to be gained on the same level for every Deity?

 

For instance, in my Skaen example above, I put out "Restore Minor Stamina" on 2nd Prayer Level, but it is a 1st Level Prayer? Yes! Because I was thinking, Skaenites don't seem to be too friendly, and I simply get the feeling they wouldn't prioritize healing others. In the same way I was thinking with Berath, they are Gatekeepers of Life & Death, and thus, why would they "Withdraw" right? I felt it fit into Berath's theme a la: "Life happens if it happens, and Death happens if it happens"

 

Example: Eothas does not have the 2nd Level Prayer "Instill Doubt" and Berath doesn't have the 1st Level Spell "Withdraw" in the lists above, what if they could still gain them, but at a later level (like the Skaen or Magran in-list example), and/or through in-game merchants/temples/trainers?

 

What if each Deity simply distributes Spells at different levels? I.E. Eothas gains "Instill Doubt" at Level 5, and Berath gains "Withdraw" on Level 3. Different teachings, schoolings, doctrine and Prayer priority's depending on Deity/Priesthood?

Edited January 9, 2015 by Osvir

[Sensuki]

I'd be against changing how Priest and Druid's select their normal spells at this point. Choices in the gameplay matter more to me than character building choices.

[limbo]

Maybe take five existing spells from each level and attribute to one of gods?

Spell connected with hero deity would may have some small bonuses, but player while leveling up, should have to choose between one or two from rest four. Unchosen stuff would be never more available for him. You know, that spells are sacrificed to others gods.

[White Phoenix]

 

I like the deity spell idea on odd levels. I would support that. It is probably too late now though but yeah.

 

I do like the fact that Priests get access to all their spells, it's quite handy. 

I

Eothas

Renewal, Light, Community (Friendship?)

 

- [1st Level] Blessing, Holy Meditation, Prayer against Fear, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (5)

- [2nd Level] Supress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Concecrated Ground, Prayer against Infirmary, Iconic Projection (5)

- [3rd Level] Pillar of Faith, Restore Moderate Stamina, Prayer against Restraint, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Shining Beacon (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Restore Critical Stamina, Prayer against Imprisonment, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Magran

War, Fire, Strength, Bold/Witty

 

- [1st Level] Armor of Faith, Blessing, Holy Meditation, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (4)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Divine Mark, Holy Power (+1st Lvl Halt) (5)

- [3rd Level] Warding Seal, Restore Moderate Stamina, Dire Blessing, Despondent Blows (+2nd Lvl Repulsing Seal) (5)

- [4th Level] Triumph of the Crusaders, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Searing Seal (4)

- [5th Level] Champion's Boon, Restore Critical Stamina, Pillar of Holy Fire, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Cleansing Flame, Spark the Souls of the Righteous (+5th Lvl Revive the Fallen) (4)

 

Berath

Life, Death, Resolve

 

- [1st Level] Barbs of Condemnation, Halt, Prayer against Fear, Restore Minor Stamina (4)

- [2nd Level] Restore Light Stamina, Divine Mark, Prayer against Infirmity, Instill Doubt (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Restore Moderate Stamina, Prayer against Restraint, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Baring Death's Door, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Restore Critical Stamina, Prayer against Imprisonment, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Wael 

Dreams, Secrets, Mysteries, Revelations, (Illumination?)

 

- [1st Level] Armor of Faith, Blessing, Holy Meditation, Restore Minor Stamina, Withdraw (5)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Restore Light Stamina, Consecrated Ground, Instill Doubt (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Restore Moderate Stamina, Dire Blessing, Circle of Protection (4)

- [4th Level] Prayer against Bewilderment, Devotions for the Faithful, Restore Major Stamina, Shining Beacon (4)

- [5th Level] Revive the Fallen, Salvation of Time, Restore Critical Stamina, Shields for the Faithful (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Prayer against Treachery, Minor Intercession (3)

 

Skaen

Hatred, Resentment, Violence, Rebellion

 

- [1st Level] Barbs of Condemnation, Divine Terror, Withdraw (3)

- [2nd Level] Suppress Affliction, Replusing Seal, Instill Doubt (+1st Lvl Restore Minor Stamina) (4)

- [3rd Level] Watchful Presence, Warding Seal, Dire Blessing (+2nd Lvl Restore Light Stamina) (4)

- [4th Level] Triumph of the Crusaders, Devotions for the Faithful, Searing Seal(+3rd Lvl Restore Moderate Stamina) (3)

- [5th Level] Champion's Boon, Pillar of Holy Fire, Shields for the Faithful(+4th Lvl Restore Major Stamina) (4)

- [6th Level] Crowns for the Faithful, Cleansing Flame, Spark the Souls of the Righteous (+5th Lvl Revive the Fallen) (4)

 

// I made these on the go, I haven't reviewed them (I have 2 windows open side-by-side). 4, mostly, per level? Why? The list simply formed that way. Tried keeping it to each Deity's "theme", from my perspective.

 

As I was tinkering with the Skaen list (which is the least fleshed out and, I admit, rushed) I started thinking on another aspect when giving all spells on every odd level (and reviewed & editted Magran).

 

Does all spells have to be gained on the same level for every Deity?

 

For instance, in my Skaen example above, I put out "Restore Minor Stamina" on 2nd Prayer Level, but it is a 1st Level Prayer? Yes! Because I was thinking, Skaenites don't seem to be too friendly, and I simply get the feeling they wouldn't prioritize healing others. In the same way I was thinking with Berath, they are Gatekeepers of Life & Death, and thus, why would they "Withdraw" right? I felt it fit into Berath's theme a la: "Life happens if it happens, and Death happens if it happens"

 

Example: Eothas does not have the 2nd Level Prayer "Instill Doubt" and Berath doesn't have the 1st Level Spell "Withdraw" in the lists above, what if they could still gain them, but at a later level (like the Skaen or Magran in-list example), and/or through in-game merchants/temples/trainers?

 

What if each Deity simply distributes Spells at different levels? I.E. Eothas gains "Instill Doubt" at Level 5, and Berath gains "Withdraw" on Level 3. Different teachings, schoolings, doctrine and Prayer priority's depending on Deity/Priesthood?

 

I really like that idea! It shows your priest as unique follower devoted to his god, who cannot be replaced with somebody else (other priest). From the other side it prevents from casting the same spell as mine by the second priest (double Divine Mark or something else for example). I think more real to do is what Limbo mentioned:

 

 

Maybe take five existing spells from each level and attribute to one of gods?

Spell connected with hero deity would may have some small bonuses, but player while leveling up, should have to choose between one or two from rest four. Unchosen stuff would be never more available for him. You know, that spells are sacrificed to others gods.

 

It is not so invading and works more like talents or choosing abilities.

 

I think that every priest should have Prayer against Effect Status, Endurance healing spells and one offensive (best if it reflects deity of the priest). The rest of spells could be the same but more diversified in effect (something like wizards spell talents). It is the simple way to make each priest more special and connected with his deity in mechanic. From the other side making spells specific for chosen god seems to be easier than creating whole Magran/Eothas/Skaen/Wael/Berath priest build overall.

[Osvir]

I think that every priest should have Prayer against Effect Status, Endurance healing spells and one offensive (best if it reflects deity of the priest). The rest of spells could be the same but more diversified in effect (something like wizards spell talents). It is the simple way to make each priest more special and connected with his deity in mechanic. From the other side making spells specific for chosen god seems to be easier than creating whole Magran/Eothas/Skaen/Wael/Berath priest build overall.

What about categorizing all of the "Sword", "Shield" & "Crown" of the Faithful into the same Prayer Level? So, for instance, a Skeanite might get "Crown of the Faithful" and Eothas (Eothan? Eothasan? Eothasite?) might get "Shield of the Faithful", on the same level. But giving the spells different effects/statistics that fit with the Deity.

 

Similarly with the "Prayer against ----" spells could also be categorized into 1 Prayer Level (Let's say, Level 3), and a Magranite might get "Prayer against Infirmary", and a Waelite gets "Prayer against Bewilderment".

Edited January 9, 2015 by Osvir

[White Phoenix]

 

I think that every priest should have Prayer against Effect Status, Endurance healing spells and one offensive (best if it reflects deity of the priest). The rest of spells could be the same but more diversified in effect (something like wizards spell talents). It is the simple way to make each priest more special and connected with his deity in mechanic. From the other side making spells specific for chosen god seems to be easier than creating whole Magran/Eothas/Skaen/Wael/Berath priest build overall.

What about categorizing all of the "Sword", "Shield" & "Crown" of the Faithful into the same Prayer Level? So, for instance, a Skeanite might get "Crown of the Faithful" and Eothas might get "Shield of the Faithful", on the same level. But giving the spells different effects/statistics that fit with the Deity.

 

 Good idea, a few spells could work in that way. I don't agree with Prayer against----. Status effects are taken so often in combat that it makes no sense to diversify them between different gods followed by priest. Same with Armor of faith and similar spells in effect (increasing DT/DR and defenses). I mean every priest should possess a pool of spells increasing armor/defenses. On higher levels it could be more deity-specific (for example, huge increase of some kind of defense --> Magran +20 Fortitude, Eothas +20 Will or less increase in two defenses ---> Magran +10 Fortitude, + 10 Deflection, Eothas + 10 Will, + 10 Fortitude + maybe something extra but don't know what could be added to defenses, maybe + 10 some kind of Status effect or DT/DR Burn/Shock/Corrode).

 

And I was thinking about specific spells for priest on higher levels called Minor/Greater Vessel for Berath/Eothas/Magran/Wael/Skaen (something like false incarnation). It could grant + 15 for Attributes/Accuracy/Another Effects (Minor) and +25 (Greater). Every 'incarnation' should also have specific ability with status effects and damage (everything offensive)

 

Here are examples

 

Berath --> + 15/25 Accuracy, Resolve, Constitution + 1 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates a chain of freeze, stunning and terrified effects in seal in shape of Ouroboros.

Eothas --> +15/25 Accuracy, Intellect, +2 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates rays of light (cone) blinded, piercing and weakening enemies.

Magran--> +15/25 Accuracy, Might, Constitution + 1 Move Speed, +5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates a chain of effects burning, prone and hobbled.

Skaen --> +15/25, Might, Perception (less points here), + 1 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability hobbled, sickened and corrode damage.

Wael --> +15/25 Accuracy, Resolve, Intellect, +1 Move Speed, +5 defenses not covered by increased attributes,  creates a seal in shape of eye paralyzed and take corrode/freeze damage).

 

I know it would be probably overpowered in the game (solo destroyer of Dyrwood ;D), but it is generally my idea of something like druid spiritshift but more powerful.

Edited January 9, 2015 by White Phoenix

[Osvir]

There's also the method which I only briefly went through, which would give all Priests all spells, but at a different rate depending on Diety.
 

Eothas Example (Expand the "Spoilers", bottom Prayer is "replaced" with one of the higher or lower level):

1st level Spells

 

 

• Armor of Faith – All allies in the area gain bonus Damage Threshold.
• Barbs of Condemnation – decreases the target's deflection, fortitude and reflexes.
• Blessing – Increases all defenses of all allies in the area.
• Halt – inflicts a single enemy with the affliction stuck for a short duration.
• Holy Meditation – Increases the Concentration of nearby allies.
• Prayer against Fear – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Frightened or Terrified afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Restore Minor Stamina – Restores Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Withdraw – Caster or ally is momentarily phased out (cannot act, cannot be targeted) and regenerates Stamina.
• Iconic Projection – a slow moving energy ball that is healing allies and damaging enemies. (SECOND LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

2nd level Spells

 

 

• Suppress Affliction – Hostile Effects are suspended for a short duration.
• Restore Light Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Consecrated Ground – Creates a long-lasting circle of Stamina regeneration on the ground for allies.
• Repulsing Seal – On contact with seal enemies will be knocked prone.
• Prayer against Infirmity– Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Weakened or Sickened afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Instill Doubt – dazes enemies in the area.
• Holy Power – Allies' Might and Resolve are increased.
• Divine Terror – All enemies in the area are Frightened for the duration (FIRST LEVEL PRAYER)
• Circle of Protection – Grants allies a bonus to all defenses. (THIRD LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

3rd level Spells

 

 

• Pillar of Faith – Does Crush damage to the target and knocks enemies Prone in a small area.
• Watchful Presence – All affected allies gain an effect on them that will last until the end of combat or until triggered. When any affected character drops below 20% Stamina, Watchful Presence will heal a significant amount of Stamina on the character.
• Warding Seal – If an enemy comes in contact with the seal it's explodes and deals shock damage.
• Restore Moderate Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Prayer against Restraint – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Hobbled or Stuck afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced by 10 seconds for Hobbled or 5 seconds for Stuck.
• Despondent Blows – lowers enemies melee accuracy and critical hit rate in the area.
• Divine Mark – Blasts the target with Burn damage and reduces their Deflection for a short duration. (SECOND LEVEL PRAYER)
• Shining Beacon – enemies in the area gain a penalty to all defenses and accure burn damage over time. (FOURTH LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

4th level Spells

 

 

• Prayer against Bewilderment – Grants a bonus to resist any attack containing the Dazed or Confused afflictions. If those afflictions are already on the target, their durations are reduced.[4]
• Baring Death's Door – ally is immune and regenerates stamina.
• Devotions for the Faithful – Allies gain Might and Accuracy bonusses and enmies gain accuracy and Might penalties.
• Restore Major Stamina – Restores some Stamina to all allies in the area.
• Searing Seal – If an enemy comes in contact with the seal it's explodes and deals burn damage and blinds the enemy.
• Dire Blessing – Increases critical hit rate for allies. (THIRD LEVEL PRAYER)
• Pillar of Holy Fire – Summons a flaming pillar of righteous anger, Burning enemies in the area of effect (FIFTH LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

5th Spell Level

 

 

• Revive the Fallen – Revives and restores a modest amount of Stamina to unconscious allies in a small area. This has no effect on characters who have already been Maimed or Killed in combat.
• Champion's Boon – Grants a divine favor to an ally, imbuing him or her with a bonus to Might, Perception and all Damage Thresholds.
• Restore Critical Stamina
• Prayer Against Imprisonment – Instills a spirit of liberation in allies in the area of effect, granting a bonus against attacks with Paralyzed or Petrified afflictions and reducing the duration of any such afflictions currently on the target.
• Shields for the Faithful – Conjures a powerful holy shield, granting a Deflection bonus to all allies in the area of effect.
• Triumph of the Crusaders – Allies gain a bonus that restores Stamina every time they defeat an opponent. The ally must strike the "finishing" blow to gain the benefit. (FOURTH LEVEL PRAYER)
• Minor Intercession – Calls upon the aid of the priest's god, restoring Stamina and reducing durations of negative effects for all allies in the area of effect. (SIXTH LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

6th Spell Level

 

 

• Crowns for the Faithful – Increases the Perception, Intellect, and Resolve of all allies in the area.
• Cleansing Flame – Hurls a ball of holy fire at an enemy. It does continuous Burn damage to the target and reduces the duration of beneficial effects.
• Prayer Against Treachery – Galvanizes the devotion of the party, granting bonuses against attacks with Charm or Dominate afflictions as well as reducing the duration of any such afflictions already on the target.
• Spark the Souls of the Righteous – Ignites a powerful zeal within allies that manifests in an aura that Shocks any enemies near them.
• Salvation of Time – Extends the duration of all beneficial effects on allies. (FIFTH LEVEL PRAYER)

 

 

 

First of all, why am I saying "Prayers" about the Priest Spells? I saw it on the Official Wikipedia in the description and it caught on, I think it sounds cooler as well.

Second, what have I exactly done in this concept? I've switched around the Prayer gain/progression. Naturally, this would be applied to each Diety. This way, each Priest following a specific Diety would progress differently, but would gain all the Prayers still.

This means a Eothas Priest could gain "Minor Intercession" at Prayer Level 5, whilst all the other Priest gains it at Prayer Level 6 (see?? "Prayer Level" rather than "Spell Level". Spell Level (Wizard), Chant or Phrase Level (Chanter), Psi-Level (Cipher), and Nature or Growth Level (Druid)?? :D :D *shrug* semantics )

Edited January 9, 2015 by Osvir

[Osvir]

Here are examples

 

Berath --> + 15/25 Accuracy, Resolve, Constitution + 1 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates a chain of freeze, stunning and terrified effects in seal in shape of Ouroboros.

Eothas --> +15/25 Accuracy, Intellect, +2 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates rays of light (cone) blinded, piercing and weakening enemies.

Magran--> +15/25 Accuracy, Might, Constitution + 1 Move Speed, +5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability creates a chain of effects burning, prone and hobbled.

Skaen --> +15/25, Might, Perception (less points here), + 1 Move Speed, + 5 defenses not covered by increased attributes, ability hobbled, sickened and corrode damage.

Wael --> +15/25 Accuracy, Resolve, Intellect, +1 Move Speed, +5 defenses not covered by increased attributes,  creates a seal in shape of eye paralyzed and take corrode/freeze damage).

It seems, at first glance, to look complex. And powerful. Though, I get the idea and it's interesting. It did get me thinking... different VFX color? Concecrated Ground on a Magranite being red, fiery, and on a Skaenite more corroded, green. VFX doesn't do anything statistically though~ but could be a nice little differenting flavor or aesthetic~

 

EDIT: Ooops double-post, I thought I was in edit mode, routine press "Post". Hm, oh well.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Osvir