392 Discussion

[Quetzalcoatl]

I wouldn't know since I don't have access to the beta, but from what I've seen low INT in this game isn't supposed to make as you as dumb as an animal like it did in the old rule sets.

[Sensuki]

You see a screenshot of someone maxing those two attributes and conclude everyone does. Nice logic you have going on there. Does the screenshot also imply that no one plays any classes beside the monk anymore?

I was also just making a test character.

 

I wouldn't know since I don't have access to the beta, but from what I've seen low INT in this game isn't supposed to make as you as dumb as an animal like it did in the old rule sets.

Nah, that feature was cut.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sensuki

[Quetzalcoatl]

 

 

20 Might, 18 perception a?

So much for attributes all being needed for PoE. We just replaced maxing Str, Dex and Con for Might and Perception.

But in IE games, attributes were more realistic and less gamist so now PoE system is crap when compared.

You're talking about a system where you could make characters with the mental capacity of animals (3 CHA/INT/WIS) and they would have the same dialogue as a character with 18 CHA/INT/WIS. And a system where your physical strength determines the accuracy of your attacks is far from realistic.

 

Didn't I hear somewhere that Tim Cain's hopes for low INT dialogue have been omitted from the game?  

 

I wouldn't know since I don't have access to the beta, but from what I've seen low INT in this game isn't supposed to make as you as dumb as an animal like it did in the old rule sets. It seems more like the INT for the average human.

 

 

 

 

20 Might, 18 perception a?

So much for attributes all being needed for PoE. We just replaced maxing Str, Dex and Con for Might and Perception.

But in IE games, attributes were more realistic and less gamist so now PoE system is crap when compared.

You're talking about a system where you could make characters with the mental capacity of animals (3 CHA/INT/WIS) and they would have the same dialogue as a character with 18 CHA/INT/WIS. And a system where your physical strength determines the accuracy of your attacks is far from realistic.

 

And you are talking about putting a feature into a game that was already huge, a feature that outside of F1/F2 was not seen anywhere. You got no case here, only empty talk.

Planescape Torment and the 3rd edition Neverwinter Nights games did fine with factoring mental stats into dialogue.

 

As for Strenght, of course Strenght decides accuracy in a system where armor reduces hit chance. Strength of the wielder decides its speed and power. You need both to punch through armor. Still no case here, only empty talk. Return once you understand what you are talking about.

 

Armor class doesn't make sense either. It's not very realistic to have the same stat control damage evasion, damage negation and damage reduction. The armor system in this game seems to be much more realistic.

[archangel979]

PST focus was totally different than other IE games. As a result it lacked in many other aspects (which were not really needed for its focus).

And PST is the least inspiration for PoE.

As for NWN, of course a later Bioware (and ex Black Isle) games are going to improve upon what they did with IE games. But in IE games charisma and reputation gave you more options.

 

It still does not make PoE attribute system better. I was talking about combat use of attributes and OE goal which was to force players to not max same 3 attributes for each class. They failed at that but trying to do some made a less realistic attribute system that has bull**** like Might increasing spell damage and Perceptions increasing melee weapon accuracy.

 

As for armor class in IE games, it is no more or less realistic than what PoE uses. It is just a game mechanic to represent Armor advantage in combat. D&D also has optional rules where armor works like in PoE (gives flat reduction of damage) and only Dexterity and class level gives evasion.

And I don't understand what you mean by "same stat control damage evasion, damage negation and damage reduction".

In IE games armor only gave damage negation. If you missed your target it received no damage. Well that can be called damage evasion as well, you need to explain the difference between these two terms. It for sure didn't also give damage reduction as well.

[Sensuki]

Unit tooltips now appear in the top left corner of the screen like Aarklash Legacy.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sensuki

[Starwars]

After the inclusion of the voice sets, can I please reinforce one aching desire that I've posted about again and again throughout the beta process...

 

Please, for the love god, let us have seperate volume sliders for voices! If possible, separate ones for proper dialogue and for "combat sounds"/acknowledgements and stuff like that. And additionally, please for the love of god, allow us to select a Silent option during character creation (having a toggle to have exisiting companions be quiet would be awesome also).

I guess the voices aren't yet mixed volume-wise but as of now, hearing the grunts during combat and the freaking acknowledgements is already driving me bonkers.

 

Pleeeeease Obsidian, add these things.

 

Also, the music still isn't working properly. It only plays sometimes.

[TheisEjsing]

Just finished a full run on normal with a human Cipher. And I must say, that this build feels very solid. No performance issues for me. Combat feels much more IE'sh. The speed of the combat and the lenght of the encounters felt really good. I liked the overall feel of damage and skills. It is actually quite enjoyable now.
 

The voices of the npcs are superb and the amount of VO, where it is used, is more than I expected. The new UI is far better than the old one and gives the information I need atleast. The modified talent/skill system also feels very good and the level up screens, which were a mess before, are easy to navigate.

Even with the remaining bugs and balance issues, this seemed like a game in the final stages of production to me. A damn good game.  
 

Merry christmas!

[Sensuki]

Combat feels much more IE'sh. The speed of the combat and the lenght of the encounters felt really good. I liked the overall feel of damage and skills. It is actually quite enjoyable now.

 

 

Sorry but, what?

 

No it doesn't ... lol. I don't play on normal, but nothing about the pace and damage of anything feels IE. 

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sensuki

[TheisEjsing]

I'm not as invested in the details of combat as you are. You clearly have vast knowledge and more extensive IE combat experience. So I might be wrong, but I liked the number of attacks, the speed of which you killed enemies, the impact spells and abilities had alot in this patch. For me it felt more like the IE games, than any of the prior patches. And it was fun. I still think you often dies abit too fast, but then again, I think back to the BG 1 encounter in the undercity brothel. In my first few attempts at that fight, my 19 con fighter dwarf with -9 AC got destroyed in 10 seconds or so.  

I haven't played on hard yet, that might chance things alot. 

[Sensuki]

Well yeah, that's because of "save or die" effects, of which Pillars of Eternity is not supposed to include. For me the per-hit damage of everything is too high because pretty much every attack is a hit and characters in particular just do not have the health to withstand long when getting pounded on by anything, even in Plate Armor. It's also kinda dumb that you can do 3 damage on a graze but 40 on a crit with the same weapon, I really do not enjoy the feel of that. That type of swinginess did not exist in the Infinity Engine games.

I always played the IE games at 40 FPS, which is 33% faster than the default speed, and even at that speed, encounter length in this feels way off for someone who played the IE games at a faster than normal speed. There are a handful of encounters (such as fighting Lions) that feel about right, but they still deal too much damage themselves.

 

The way the game currently plays it favors huge opening deathballs and playing to deal the highest amount of damage as fast as possible. Emphasizing survivability doesn't seem to make much of a difference at all, unless you cheese it with a spell like Withdraw.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sensuki

[archangel979]

I'm not as invested in the details of combat as you are. You clearly have vast knowledge and more extensive IE combat experience. So I might be wrong, but I liked the number of attacks, the speed of which you killed enemies, the impact spells and abilities had alot in this patch. For me it felt more like the IE games, than any of the prior patches. And it was fun. I still think you often dies abit too fast, but then again, I think back to the BG 1 encounter in the undercity brothel. In my first few attempts at that fight, my 19 con fighter dwarf with -9 AC got destroyed in 10 seconds or so.  

I haven't played on hard yet, that might chance things alot.

Because one of the enemies used spells that instant killed you. It is a terrible example.

 

Compare anything you run in PoE to fighting Bears because that is as interesting (or complex) as it seems to get.

 

I would mention to compare it to some adventuring groups you can fight in BG1 but those uses Horror and Hold Person spells which don't exist in PoE in same dangerous version.

Edited December 23, 2014 by archangel979

[TheisEjsing]

Because one of the enemies used spells that instant killed you. It is a terrible example.

No, it wasn't. In that fight in BG 1, you met a mage and a thief (I think). And the thief lands nearly every attack on you, no matter what ac you have squeshed out of the system.

 

 

Well yeah, that's because of "save or die" effects, of which Pillars of Eternity is not supposed to include. For me the per-hit damage of everything is too high because pretty much every attack is a hit and characters in particular just do not have the health to withstand long when getting pounded on by anything, even in Plate Armor. It's also kinda dumb that you can do 3 damage on a graze but 40 on a crit with the same weapon, I really do not enjoy the feel of that. That type of swinginess did not exist in the Infinity Engine games.

I always played the IE games at 40 FPS, which is 33% faster than the default speed, and even at that speed, encounter length in this feels way off for someone who played the IE games at a faster than normal speed. There are a handful of encounters (such as fighting Lions) that feel about right, but they still deal too much damage themselves.

 

The way the game currently plays it favors huge opening deathballs and playing to deal the highest amount of damage as fast as possible. Emphasizing survivability doesn't seem to make much of a difference at all, unless you cheese it with a spell like Withdraw.

 

Yeah, I agree to that. Attacks deals more damage than in the IE games. But maybe, I just don't optimize my characters enough, since my encounters felt pretty good in regards to length. 

Edited December 23, 2014 by TheisEjsing

[archangel979]

I know the fight, the "thief" is hasted and does not land each attack, you might have got unlucky. But the mage casts Cloudkill which is instant death spell. But in PoE neither Haste of such power will exists and Cloudkill will not for sure.

 

As I said, compare PoE fights to fighting Bears or Cave Bears in BG1 at lvl 4-5

Edited December 23, 2014 by archangel979

[leninghola]

 

Combat feels much more IE'sh. The speed of the combat and the lenght of the encounters felt really good. I liked the overall feel of damage and skills. It is actually quite enjoyable now.

 

 

Sorry but, what?

 

No it doesn't ... lol. I don't play on normal, but nothing about the pace and damage of anything feels IE. 

 

On normal, it does.

[MoonWolf]

I can tell you that on PotD it feels like trying to stop a landslide with a twig. By the time i've killed a wood beetle the party is dead.

[Sensuki]

In this build I wouldn't be surprised if any character dies in nearly 2 hits in PotD

[Starwars]

I think even on Normal, it currently feels pretty "swingy" to me. 

 

The new Web VFX is pretty nice, much less obtrusive.

[Sensuki]

The Hobbled FX is now way more obtrusive than the Web spell FX itself .. lol

 

Chanters now automatically chant in combat too

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sensuki

[Sensuki]

Pls implement this NPC circle color for colorblind mode off

 

[morhilane]

I love the UI improvements very much.

 

I adore the stoic voice set. I tend to find them annoying, but the stoic is just "hm, hm", "yeah".

 

 

I need to play more to comment on combat though. Right now Medreth and friends went down super fast, but the beetle pack (back to 6 of them) in the Crossing almost destroyed me.

[archangel979]

Are backer NPCs still stupid?

[AndreaColombo]

Pls implement this NPC circle color for colorblind mode off

 

 

 

Yes please.

 

This looks so good and feels so IE!

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I love the art details and the ui I've seen so far. That monk you showed Sensuki is fantastic except the arms look like they have a fan blowing through the sleeves. If they can scale down the sleeves about 20% that looks great, also don't make it so perfectly round, I'm hoping to see some playthroughs of this build.

[Starwars]

I made an Amaua Monk also and he actually looks... really badass. A guy one really wouldn't want to mess with. Didn't really expect that from this character creator since it's pretty basic.

[Rumsteak]

Dunno if this has been added in a previous patch, but I killed some random backer NPCs and got attacked by the rest of the village. Nice touch.