Why Trap XP doesn't work

[Kjaamor]

Personally, as a gamer who can't control his reloading for minimal exp, I would encourage a "Lead-Man Mode", which allows you to reload as much as you want, but all the traps and locks are given a fixed seed at the start of the game.

 

Having just said that, with all the worrying about movement and class, I've been ignoring skills for some time. Are they rolls or checks?

[Sensuki]

Flat checks. I've been ignoring them too.

[Kjaamor]

Well, in that case the save-reload discussion seems fairly moot.

 

Also, good.

[Gfted1]

Good? What kind of monster are you? Now people will be "forced" to wait until they level up the disarm skill and then "forced" to walk back to wherever that trap was to disarm it for the xp.

[Kjaamor]

Which would've been the case anyway, unless no improvements to mechanics are ever necessary.

[Sensuki]

There's only 5 skills Gfted, you'll have up to six characters.

[Captain Shrek]

There's only 5 skills Gfted, you'll have up to six characters.

Lol.

 

That was pretty much the worst design decision ever in my opinion. 

 

Hard checks are the only correct solution. That way you can lock content for particular builds and still have a lot to do for everyone. AoD does it so well.... Why can't others see the magic of this idea, I have no clue. 

[Gfted1]

Which would've been the case anyway, unless no improvements to mechanics are ever necessary.

 

Huh? In a "rolls" based system people could just reload until they win. In the case of hard checks you have to wait until you reach a certain number to be successful. Now those lacking impulse control will be "forced" to backtrack the entire game to get the xp that they cant live without. Oh the humanity!

 

There's only 5 skills Gfted, you'll have up to six characters.

 

Im not following, please elaborate.

[Nakia]

Why shouldn't disarming traps or unlocking locks give experience?  I haven't read nipsen's post just don't have the patience to read long posts by a non-player.   I agree that the devs have more important things to worry about and there is no way in Hel's realm they can please everyone and that includes me. 

 

Everyone has his or her own play style.   The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed but we can disagree politely.   

[Kjaamor]

Which would've been the case anyway, unless no improvements to mechanics are ever necessary.

 

Huh? In a "rolls" based system people could just reload until they win. In the case of hard checks you have to wait until you reach a certain number to be successful. Now those lacking impulse control will be "forced" to backtrack the entire game to get the xp that they cant live without. Oh the humanity!

 

 

If a chest has a difficulty of 14 against Mechanics+d10, then if you reach that chest with Mechanics 3 you will not be able to open it. Only when you have a Mechanics >3 will you be able to. Hence you backtrack anyway.

 

That is unless no chest has a difficulty greater than 11, in which case every point past 1 in Mechanics is unnecessary.

 

You don't eliminate the need to backtrack with checks, but you do remove the save+reload spam for something that requires no skill/strategic/tactical input from the player. That is a good thing.

[Sensuki]

Im not following, please elaborate.

There are only 5 skills in the game (Athletics, Stealth, Survival, Lore, Mechanics) and you can have up to 6 characters. Characters can have more than one skill. You only need one character to be good at certain things (Mechanics, for instance) and you'll be able to open all the locks and disarm all of the traps you like.

[Gfted1]

 

Im not following, please elaborate.

There are only 5 skills in the game (Athletics, Stealth, Survival, Lore, Mechanics) and you can have up to 6 characters. Characters can have more than one skill. You only need one character to be good at certain things (Mechanics, for instance) and you'll be able to open all the locks and disarm all of the traps you like.

 

 

I understand that but not how it pertains to the conversation. Im poking holes in peoples silly claims that the mere existence of something "forces" them to play contrary to how they would prefer (IE: Claims that they cannot resist "farming" kill or trap xp because lack of self control.) I think that's stupid and shouldn't be a drain on resources trying to prevent.

[Sensuki]

Powergaming.

[ISC]

Some people in this threat seem to have trouble differentiating 'forced' from 'motivated' or 'encouraged'. I have s**tloads of impulse control, but I have limited control over what I find entertaining. Do I find save-scumming entertaining? No. Do I find missing out on exp from one of the few sources there is entertaining? No. I can do either of them, but neither is entertaining, and thus I dislike trap-exp.

[serenityangel]

I think maybe trap/lock xp came by when there was a system that rewarded each character for doing things they do.  What I mean is player A is a fighter, kills x mobs and might get 10xp per lvl or mob or whatever (combat kill exp), the mage gets exp researching spells or learning new ones, the priests get xp for practicing spells of their faith or recruiting members to their faith, and rogues got trap/lock xp.  These were individual rewards and not party exp so their implementation in this game might be a moot point.  However I remember I disabled a trap in that blood temple place where they held the noble's daughter and got like 120xp divided 6 ways.  I think that exp is so very small it doesn't matter when compared to the quest exp.

 

You can't stop people from powergaming and why would you want to?  Everyone plays differently, will use diff mods, and some are going to cheat with character editors and stuff.  It would cheapen the game entertainment to do such things for me, but it's their single player game so let them do what they want, no?  Play it the way you like it and let the story be yours.

[Gairnulf]

 

 

Im not following, please elaborate.

There are only 5 skills in the game (Athletics, Stealth, Survival, Lore, Mechanics) and you can have up to 6 characters. Characters can have more than one skill. You only need one character to be good at certain things (Mechanics, for instance) and you'll be able to open all the locks and disarm all of the traps you like.

 

 

I understand that but not how it pertains to the conversation. Im poking holes in peoples silly claims that the mere existence of something "forces" them to play contrary to how they would prefer (IE: Claims that they cannot resist "farming" kill or trap xp because lack of self control.) I think that's stupid and shouldn't be a drain on resources trying to prevent.

 

I can't help myslef from constant tab key-scanning areas for containers.

[Sensuki]

I'm put off from doing it because it shows EVERY GOD DAMN TOOLTIP ON THE SCREEN

[lolaldanee]

Some people in this threat seem to have trouble differentiating 'forced' from 'motivated' or 'encouraged'. I have s**tloads of impulse control, but I have limited control over what I find entertaining. Do I find save-scumming entertaining? No. Do I find missing out on exp from one of the few sources there is entertaining? No. I can do either of them, but neither is entertaining, and thus I dislike trap-exp.

this

it's so simple

[Gairnulf]

I'm put off from doing it because it shows EVERY GOD DAMN TOOLTIP ON THE SCREEN

Yeah, if showing tooltips isn't split from showing containers in the next patch, I'm going to report it as a bug. The two are completely unrelated from a playing perspective.

[nipsen]

Maybe they could just design a golden, floating "5xp" cursor that jumps and sparkles when you click anything. But not actually give you xp to screw the level progression every time you click with it, and call it a day? 

 

I mean, you can have that cursor if you want it, can't you? Sure you can. This is after all a complicated personal issue some very serious posters have with the game, and it's obvious that the developers should handle this with the utmost urgency and seriousness. As usual.

[nipsen]

 

The des have stated that PoE can be beaten by following nothing more than the crit path. The examples of having "requirements" to do this or that to complete the game are false.

Yes. And if you could read, I would have already explained to you why having extra variable xp-sources will screw that up.

 

No biggie, though. I mean, don't let me stop you guys in the community team from pushing this to the devs and implementation. By all means.

[Gfted1]

 

Yes, because the devs wouldn't have any possible way of calculating what the aggregate xp gain would be and adjust the levels accordingly. If someone, somewhere, opens ~50 traps game wide then the whole game will be broken. *nods*

[ISC]

Somehow the point of all this sarcasm escapes me... is it perhaps based on more assumptions of other peoples motives?

[nipsen]

..A moderator in the beta-part of a forum that at least used to be read fairly often by the dev-team keeps stating that anyone who don't want xp rewards, in this case, is a spiteful jerk who wants to control how people play the game. And hate people not playing the game in the "right" way, since they are mentally off the kilter. That's the assumption, it's not very subtle, and it hasn't got anything to do with motivations.

 

In any case - do you think that encourages open feedback in the forum? Even if he wasn't a moderator, would that really be a welcome way to answer anything?

 

...on topic: Unless people want to settle for fake xp popups, you would have to choose between getting an insignificant XP reward for sidequest activity, or getting no specific incremental xp-reward. And sadly have to settle for merely loot, exploration rewards, filling out the map, getting to new quests, and gaining knowledge about creatures, along with understanding the game system better, etc.

 

(..actually, scratch the last one, thanks to the attribute system being disconnected from the combat-mechanics, thanks in part to "majority" feedback on this wonderfully moderated forum). 

 

Otherwise, leveling up and controlling the level progression has to be mechanically separate from absolute references (like the dialogue skills, or attributes in dialogues), and the combat encounters have to be scaled differently. But this has drawbacks, like I explained.

 

The drawback of something more comprehensive is that it takes a lot of work and planning.

 

So on one side, we have an existing design from a completed game. And on the other we have someone's insistent wish to break the level progression system for everyone who doesn't check the design document before figuring out if they should be ignoring or picking a lock. It's a complete toss-up, obviously. 

[Gfted1]

Trap xp should be given to the entire party and not just the trap disarmer. Like beastiary xp.