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Poor Communication Kills.


Dark_Ansem

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I am currently in the middle of an "argument" with a developer of a Kickstarter game. Depending on how he reacts, I am going to upload the conversation with or without relevant details to his username and the project his team is working on.

 

In any case, I want the opinion of the community on this, honestly. In my struggle for self-improvement, I want to learn what I am doing wrong. But, at the same time, I will not take crap from complete strangers who, in theory, are NOT Youtube cretins and should know how to behave. Feel free to speak your mind and ask for clarifications, if interested.

 

The cruel truth is, however, the developers here have spoiled me: now I think everyone is as wonderful as they are.

 

Stay tuned if you want, I think tonight I am going to upload the conversation until now.

 

 

 

Between you and [DEVELOPER]

You 5:49 pm

Any plan to make a full gameplay trailer for the game? 

 

[DEVELOPER] 5:59 pm

I understand that you are excited about The Mandate, but we are getting to a point where you are starting to bother both Devs and Moderators with your activities on the forums and also private messages.

 

Consider this a warning: We will revoke your ability to post on the forums as well as ability to send private messages if you continue with your current behaviour. 

 

To keep yourself busy until we are ready to release additional info:

 

-Buy Mount&Blade and/or Mount&Blade:Warband

-Down "The Last Days" mod for Mount&Blade or "Prophecy of Pendor" mod for Mount&Blade:Warband. Alternatively the Star Wars Conquest mod. All these options should keep you busy for several hundred hours until we are ready to release more info about The Mandate

 

-Buy Skyrim (if you do not already own it) as that sandbox RPG can easily also keep you busy for several hundred hours, especially with all the mods that are released

 

You 6:06 pm

excuse me? I sent you developers ONE message, one to you and one to Chill. this is the second one in 10 days, which is not exactly much. Other than that, I've done nothing via PM.

 

And what I say to [Moderator] via PM is not your business, especially since I tend to speak with him on Steam. You're beyond your jurisdiction

 

And what exactly have I done on the forums? List the "activities", and I'll answer you point per point.

 

If you want to revoke my capabilities, you can do that, I most certainly don't have the power to stop you. It will not be without consequence, however.

 

And btw, I have skyrim already. Boredom is NOT an issue, I am a MSc\MA student. If I want to dedicate you my time, it's with a purpose. You'd consider hiring a PR person.

 

[DEVELOPER] 6:52 pm

I do not know what you are referring to regarding [Moderator] & Steam. What I am asking you for is firstly to stop sending PMs to Devs to ask about additional marketing material, special discounts on pledge tiers etc. Secondly I ask you to review your own posts from the last 2-3 weeks objectively and then evaluate whether each post really adds value to the discussion in the form of new insights, knowledge, suggestions etc. Going forward please keep this in mind when writing new posts, necroing old threads or creating new threads.

 

I do not see how your education (or mine for that matter) is relevant in this context. If we need specific input from the community as a whole (or from you in particular) then we will reach out and ask for it.

 

If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s).

 

You 7:04 pm

* the mentioning of my education was the appropriate answer to your rude and offensive suggestion stating that I have too much time on my hands.

 

* secondly, one PM is hardly harassment, in any point of view and social context, virtual or otherwise. Forgive me if I am not like [RichUser], who could spend thousands of dollars for you, I am a student trying to relocate away from home because his own country does not give him any hope or prospect of future success. Perhaps, if I had invested 1000$ in your project, you'd consider me less a nuisance and more a "valued" customer. Sadly, I am on a budget, trying to save every penny but still wanting to contribute to a project, also due to the mentioned education and creativity. I made you an offer and you rejected it disdainfully, you didn't even bother to answer me directly. Sorry, if I have to work (or study, in my case) hard for the money I need in order to live.

 

* thirdly, my posts on the forums: the responsibility is mostly yours. I am high-maintenance, for sure, but if you spent a little more words, it wouldn't kill you.

 

It's not like what I write has no logical basis: I am channelling the community sentiment that everyone thinks but no one speaks loud.

 

And you can't blame me for the lack of "posts of value": you've given us very little to elaborate on in a solid way, but a lot to speculate on, even wildly.

 

* finally, if you feel I want to back out of the project, or rather: you showing me the door because of lack of any logical basis for your argument... this is offensive, insulting and hurtful at the same time. LittleGreenManGaming, GamesFarm, Larian Studios and Obsidian Entertainment: I've been doing EA for all those people and, especially in the first two cases, my countributions were valid enough to earn me a name in the End Credits (the games are both indie major hits: Starpoint Gemini 2 and Shadows Heretic Kingdoms).

 

I do not want out, I want to help and be a part of it. You showing me the door is, in addition to what stated before, a clear sign that, once backed, you do not value your backers anymore, and feel entitled to treat them like vermin, as you've just done to me.

 

[DEVELOPER] 7:51 pm

I spent my own free time digging up video links for you since you wrote that Unity web player does not work for you. The video with the ship designer and destruction demo clearly shows the damage modelling we are aiming for (but have since improved upon and will cover in the next update). Your response is then to send me a PM which requires additional follow-up from me. This makes me feel that when I am offerering a helping hand you immediately ask for the arm instead. Am I making sense? You mention that you are high maintenance so you have more insight than most people do but do you also consider how other people may react and why they react the way they do?

 

I understand that you are upset but even though it may not seem/feel like it to you right now, we are happy to receive your help and input regardless of whether you pledged $20, $200 or $2000. However, you need to understand that this needs to happen on our terms and when we need/ask for it.

 

You 8:06 pm

I didn't ask you to find a video, the purpose of my "Any plan to make a full gameplay trailer for the game?" was to know, not to request. if anything, you make sense, but your sense is based off a misunderstanding, born out of a bias concerning me fueled, no doubt, by bad mood you are experiencing and by misunderstanding of most of my messages. and of course, from proper understanding of my most "polemic" messages. I won't be as so stupid to deny that.

 

So yes, I consider how people may react and why they react the way they do. I am more understanding and have more insight than others, but I am also much more sensitive and attentive to this kind of matters and interaction, and are very careful in my choice of words. Hence, if you react in a way and I have (in an objective way) done nothing to 

 

You understand, but you do not really care or believe I am serious, otherwise you would not have, methaporically, spat on my face when I offered you my help (albeit implicitly) for your PR side, in light of your threat of ban and interdiction (another person would have sent you to hell, no ifs or buts). And honestly, after your reaction I am nowhere willing to believe that you're "happy" to recieve help and input. Rather, you "endure" it, hoping it is not divergent from your "Game Vision Statement". I want to believe you, however.

 

You 8:10 pm

ADDENDUM: I am forced to do an extra message because of a "EDIT" button absence.

 

"I am glad they posted letting us know so we are not left hanging." - This is a couple messages under yours in the Update #44 thread. As you can see, what I mentioned before is proven true, by complete accident and outside my will.

 

You 11:30 pm

ADDENDUM #2: "I Hope the developers would share more game inform with us, plus comment more on the forum." "I'd like to see something that will dispel doubts that this project might fail. " "Yes, I do want the best game possible, but I want a game at all to begin with."

 

3 random comments in that thread alone, by people that you probably do not despise as much as me.

 

As you can see, I am not alone.

Despite this, you vented out your frustration and anger at me, an undeserving individual, just because my desire is more powerful than that of others, and I am more prone to action. Ever heard "don't shoot the messenger, don't blame the messenger?"

 

To clarify my original 2 messages, the ones that "bothered Devs and Moderators": I asked for a trailer hoping it would be a bgm-less one in order to practice my video editing skills and upload it on youtube. And I asked for the discount because I wanted to contribute in a unique way that is different than the event you are selling, as it would not have required an in-game quest, but just an approval for a piece of lore.

 

The least you could do would be to apologise: for the unwarranted threats and for the insulting, thoughtless, hurtful and condescending words and behaviour.

 

Normally, in any civilised and social context (virtual or physical), some kind of reparation should happen at this point, since the apology didn't come (I'll clarify: when a person realizes to have been an incredible boor with another one, for no real reason). If you have any ideas, I am listening.


There we go. Since my messages are now deliberately ignored, it is obvious that the person does not care.

And since I discovered that not only no reparations would be done, but also that I am on probation, I am calling off the politically correct and putting the game name.

 

EDIT: Updating the OP.

 

"If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s)."

This is what made me completely mental.

It translates as "dude, we don't need you or your money, we were all sweet before you backed but now we feel entitled to say whatever we want and even to spit your 30 silvers back in your face".

 

Despite their quirks, I've never seen the developers here behave like this.

Edited by Dark_Ansem
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Formatting of your pm back and forth is too much work to bother to read.

 

Make it easily legible, and perhaps I'll read it.

 

It's 7 Messages in total. How exactly should I make it more legible?

The problem is probably with you, who are so lazy. And stroppy\sullen, now that I think of it.

Edited by Dark_Ansem
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Formatting of your pm back and forth is too much work to bother to read.

 

Make it easily legible, and perhaps I'll read it.

 

It's 7 Messages in total. How exactly should I make it more legible?

The problem is probably with you, who are so lazy. And stroppy\sullen, now that I think of it.

 

 

Make it clear who is saying what. Colorize it, paragraph it better, or figure something else out.

 

It's not a matter of being lazy. It's a matter of the writer making it so the reader can easily read what they wrote and understand it. You're some random person on the web, who has no history so far as I know of writing anything interesting to read, who frankly looks to be emoing (first impression based on the first, last paragraphs that I did read, and your response to me), but I don't know for sure as I didn't read it all.

 

If you want other people to read what you write, make it legible to them. Otherwise, a lot of people are just going to skip your post, as some of us have better things to do than spend time deciphering some random person's post.

Edited by Valsuelm
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"If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s)."

This is what made me completely mental.

It translates as "dude, we don't need you or your money, we were all sweet before you backed but now we feel entitled to say whatever we want and even to spit your 30 silvers back in your face".

 

Despite their quirks, I've never seen the developers here behave like this.

Quite frankly, if the devs feel you're too much trouble and not worth the money, I see nothing wrong with them offering you a refund and telling you to stop bothering them. The post didn't exactly make it clear in which ways the devs felt you were being annoying, so I can't take a stance on that mess.

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Formatting of your pm back and forth is too much work to bother to read.

 

Make it easily legible, and perhaps I'll read it.

 

It's 7 Messages in total. How exactly should I make it more legible?

The problem is probably with you, who are so lazy. And stroppy\sullen, now that I think of it.

 

 

Make it clear who is saying what. Colorize it, paragraph it better, or figure something else out.

 

It's not a matter of being lazy. It's a matter of the writer making it so the reader can easily read what they wrote and understand it. You're some random person on the web, who has no history so far as I know of writing anything interesting to read, who frankly looks to be emoing (first impression based on the first, last paragraphs that I did read, and your response to me), but I don't know for sure as I didn't read it all.

 

If you want other people to read what you write, make it legible to them.

 

 

And you look like your head is most likely where it shouldn't be, in addition to all what you said about me, applicable to you, with the addendum that you haven't actually written anything.

Nevertheless, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many, so I'll see to "colorize it".

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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"If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s)."

This is what made me completely mental.

It translates as "dude, we don't need you or your money, we were all sweet before you backed but now we feel entitled to say whatever we want and even to spit your 30 silvers back in your face".

 

Despite their quirks, I've never seen the developers here behave like this.

Quite frankly, if the devs feel you're too much trouble and not worth the money, I see nothing wrong with them offering you a refund and telling you to stop bothering them. The post didn't exactly make it clear in which ways the devs felt you were being annoying, so I can't take a stance on that mess.

 

 

Heh, there is nothing else beside this. only a pm, sent like, 10 days before, maybe more, about a pledge arrangement, just that.

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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You sound like another arrogant, selfish, evil, nazish, piece of crap douchebag of a 'fan'/customer. Evil to the core and yet trying to play the poor put upon victim. Boo hoo.

 

\The fact in this very thread you ask for feedback and you promptly attack the two people who responded to you proving that your nothing more than what I wrote above. Don't get mad at me since I did what you asked - gave you feedback.

 

Don't ask questions you don't really want answers to. :)

Edited by Volourn
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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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You sound like another arrogant, selfish, evil, nazish, piece of crap douchebag of a 'fan'/customer. Evil to the core and yet trying to play the poor put upon victim. Boo hoo.

 

I could have most likely ignored everything with a smile, but the highlighted word is too much.

And "evil" is a powerful word. don't cheapen it with your stupidity.

 

Then again, 16349  posts... so much time spent trolling, must have given you something to do, but you surely have learned nothing.

 

I attacked only one, who behaved like a stupid. I simply answered the other one.

Oh, and there's you. The Trollmaster who is, what did you write? "Evil to the core and yet trying to play the poor put upon victim. Boo hoo."

 

A definition that fits your perfectly.

Edited by Dark_Ansem
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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I  disagree. I may be evil but I don't play the victim.

 

How am I trolling? You made a post asking for others' opinions. 

 

I warned ya. Don't ask questions you don't want answers to.

 

\Keep blaming the victim. It's cute and entertaining.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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You sound like another arrogant, selfish, evil, nazish, piece of crap douchebag of a 'fan'/customer. Evil to the core and yet trying to play the poor put upon victim. Boo hoo.

 

\The fact in this very thread you ask for feedback and you promptly attack the two people who responded to you proving that your nothing more than what I wrote above. Don't get mad at me since I did what you asked - gave you feedback.

 

Don't ask questions you don't really want answers to. :)

Now THATS funny!

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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Forget it Dark_Ansem, you're in over your head with Volo. He will always have a comeback and it will always be better than what you posted. Even I don't argue with that one... anymore at least.

 

FACT :lol:

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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Forget it Dark_Ansem, you're in over your head with Volo. He will always have a comeback and it will always be better than what you posted. Even I don't argue with that one... anymore at least.

 

FACT :lol:

 

Didn't expect anything really different from someone with that high number of posts and clearly no real social life, if what I see is a shadow of his interpersonal relation skills.... but thanks for the warning :)

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Okay. Your first mistake is outright threatening them.

Your second is acting like they were insulting you gravely when they said education is not relevant to this matter. Because it isn't. They don't need to know where you are in school. That doesn't matter in the context of their private forum.

Then you go on to tell them how important you are, that you are smarter and just plain better than everyone else, and then that they obviously are not listening to you. You imply they should go to hell. You just want a fight.

 

No wonder they didn't respond well to any of that.

 

Oh, and calling the first person to reply to your thread sloppy and lazy is not the best idea. Calling yourself a victim?

A victim of what exactly?

A developer not agreeing with you?

 

"If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s)."

This is what made me completely mental.

It translates as "dude, we don't need you or your money, we were all sweet before you backed but now we feel entitled to say whatever we want and even to spit your 30 silvers back in your face".

No, that's just them saying that they'll refund you if you ask for one.

That's them being nice.

 

Never once did they get aggressive with you, or swear at you, or treat you poorly. That was all in your head. You were the one in the wrong. 

Edited by Bryy
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They threatened me first, if you read closely... with ban and revoke of rights.

Secondly, I didn't react to the education claim. I told about that because, honestly, I didn't like the condescending "go into the corner and play" attitude.

Thirdly, I don't tell them about important I am, did I? I am answering.

 

Heh, the first person to reply behaved in an asinine way. and stroppy.

 

And who asked about a refund? I believe in the project, and in them. I just don't like the attitude.

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Judging by your tone there and here, I'd advice you to generally take a day or so to respond to what you percieve as threats and aggression. Then imagine the most positive way the person could've possible meant what he/she wrote and respond, assuming that was the intention.

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Judging by your tone there and here, I'd advice you to generally take a day or so to respond to what you percieve as threats and aggression. Then imagine the most positive way the person could've possible meant what he/she wrote and respond, assuming that was the intention.

 

You're an optimist. I like that. But I also believe you are incorrect, in said optimism.

Edited by Dark_Ansem
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Formatting of your pm back and forth is too much work to bother to read.

 

Make it easily legible, and perhaps I'll read it.

 

It's 7 Messages in total. How exactly should I make it more legible?

The problem is probably with you, who are so lazy. And stroppy\sullen, now that I think of it.

 

 

Make it clear who is saying what. Colorize it, paragraph it better, or figure something else out.

 

It's not a matter of being lazy. It's a matter of the writer making it so the reader can easily read what they wrote and understand it. You're some random person on the web, who has no history so far as I know of writing anything interesting to read, who frankly looks to be emoing (first impression based on the first, last paragraphs that I did read, and your response to me), but I don't know for sure as I didn't read it all.

 

If you want other people to read what you write, make it legible to them.

 

 

And you look like your head is most likely where it shouldn't be, in addition to all what you said about me, applicable to you, with the addendum that you haven't actually written anything.

Nevertheless, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many, so I'll see to "colorize it".

 

 

Thanks for colorizing it. Much easier to read.

 

In regards to your reply to me: grow up; resist the urge to tit for tat.

 

In regards to your pms.

 

a) Very poor form to be discussing a private conversation with anyone in such a public manner without their permission. If you think it must be done, it's fair to leave such a person unnamed or unidentifiable in all ways. Doing otherwise is generally a serious breach of etiquette and really just isn't cool.

 

b) You've demonstrated well how conceited and without self awareness so many masters students are these days. As the Dev says: your level of 'education' is irrelevant. In fact, you bringing it up makes you look like a serious moron to put it nicely.

 

c) The Dev took more time with you than I'd have. Then again they were likely giving you the benefit of the doubt, which you demonstrated clearly right away on this forum that you didn't deserve. I'll give you this though, it was poor form of them to say 'buy these other games' in the manner they did.

 

All in all, you should just chillax. If I were the Dev, I'd be more than happy to refund you your money and send you packing from the forums (if I became aware of this thread that most definitely would happen). If I were you, I'd be more than happy to take my money back. There's fail on both sides on the conversation, but moreso on yours.

 

I took the time to write this, since you took the time to implement my suggestion to better format your OP. I appreciate people stepping up. Thanks again, but seriously, go get yourself some fresh air, and forget about that game, and that conversation. It's not worth it.

Edited by Valsuelm
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@ Dark_Ansem

 

I read your whole initial post and I'm going to be completely honest

 

Your issue is your communication skills and your need to feel you always have to have the last word. It reminds of people who have spent loads of time on the Internet and are quite skilled at forum responses but aren't that great at normal RL communication and etiquette. I see this a lot, it not a serious issue because many people share your problem but it does at times cause confusion and unnecessary consternation. for example like now  where you think you are communication with that Dev in a normal and rationale way...but you not and you don't see it

 

Sorry to sound harsh, but my input should be seen more as constructive and not critical :)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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