The culture of Rape, Bill Cosby Story

[Orogun01]

 

 

This seems more like a potential issue with rich/famous people getting away with stuff than "rape culture", to me.

 

 

 

Yup. Pretty much.

 

 

 

Why do I have the nagging feeling that neither of you have read the article in question?

 

 

Of course I have. Rich celebrities get even away with murder from time to time. I have still not met a guy or a group that jokes about rape, blames the victim and pat each other on the back about it. But of course i mingle with industry professionals, not the entertainment industry.

 

And they haven't invited you to their "Rapey,Rapey, fun-time club"? Shows how much they think of you.

[TrashMan]

Do you honestly fail to see why "no no no, this is all about money, stop talking about rape culture" and "society is a complex system where there are inequalities based on class, race, gender etc., and these interact in producing some really ****ed-up outcomes" are two statements that are directly opposed to each other?

 

"a male celebrity is accused of rape! RAPE CULTURE"

 

ME: "Rich guys can get away with a lot of things. Yelling rape culture is premature"

 

YOU: "BLARGABABHAH!"

Edited November 21, 2014 by TrashMan

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I only mentioned there is 40 people on the production line and I earn more than all of them combined. I never stated that is the whole company. That is all your lack of knowledge.

 

 

 

Actually, you tossed out a sentence in mangled half-english from which I've tried to extrapolate what you might have meant, and obviously failed, which, I'd say, might be chalked up to my ignorance, or - here's a radical idea - to the simple fact that your grammar is horrible.

 

 

 

If people are payed what they work is worth then where is the exploit part?

 

 

The part where the only agency with the power to decide what said work is worth has a vested interest in setting it as low as possible in the interest of maximizing profit?

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

"a male celebrity is accused of rape! RAPE CULTURE"

 

ME: "Rich guys can get away with a lot of things. Yelling rape culture is premature"

 

YOU: "BLARGABABHAH!"

 

 

I've gotta say, I find it amusing that you somehow managed to turn a repeatedly clarified statement of "society is a complex system where things can have multiple causes" into "BLARGABABHAH". It might be related to a part of your mind that simply shuts down conscious processes and turns you into a frothing idiot whenever issues of feminism are raised. Might be not. IT'S A MYSTERY

[Meshugger]

 

Wow. That's really, really messed up. What country was that?

 

My country, Croatia.

Plenty of similar cases. It usually involves a trial with minimal exposure to media, usually when there's anotehr scandal or breaking news to occupy the masses.

The sentence is a bear minimum in a minimum security prison. As soon as the media hype blows over the sentences gets quietly reduced to basically nothing for good behavior and stuff like that.

 

In other words, they guy gets out in a matter of a few months, tops.

 

 

Vince Neil of Mötley Crüe drove drunk and killed another guy from the band Hanoi Rocks. I don't even remember him serving a day prison for that.

 

//Edit: point being, it seems like rich people get of easy no matter the crime. Not just rape.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

 

Wow. That's really, really messed up. What country was that?

 

My country, Croatia.

Plenty of similar cases. It usually involves a trial with minimal exposure to media, usually when there's anotehr scandal or breaking news to occupy the masses.

The sentence is a bear minimum in a minimum security prison. As soon as the media hype blows over the sentences gets quietly reduced to basically nothing for good behavior and stuff like that.

 

In other words, they guy gets out in a matter of a few months, tops.

 

Yes but Croatia is like Serbia, the place is a warzone isn't it

[Malcador]

Why do I have the nagging feeling that neither of you have read the article in question?

Probably because you're **** as always ? My comment was more on the discussion that followed the article, as I didn't quote Bruce's post, shirty. Large part of the reason these women, at least the ones I've read, waited so long was more due to Cosby's fame and wealth than some concept.

 

Also, shouldn't there be a trigger warning on this article ?

Edited November 21, 2014 by Malcador

[Malcador]

"a male celebrity is accused of rape! RAPE CULTURE"

 

ME: "Rich guys can get away with a lot of things. Yelling rape culture is premature"

 

YOU: "BLARGABABHAH!"

You need to have wasted your time with a gender studies course, TrashMan. Get with it.

 

Yes but Croatia is like Serbia, the place is a warzone isn't it

Hey, could be a rape capital like SA

Edited November 21, 2014 by Malcador

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Why do I have the nagging feeling that neither of you have read the article in question?

Probably because you're **** as always ? My comment was more on the discussion that followed the article, as I didn't quote Bruce's post, shirty. Large part of the reason these women, at least the ones I've read, waited so long was more due to Cosby's fame and wealth than some concept.

 

Also, shouldn't there be a trigger warning on this article ?

 

 

I'm honestly curious what **** means in this case. Also, "shirty"?

 

Anyways, I wonder why would someone jump in to comment on the validity of rape culture claims without first reading what said claims are.

[Malcador]

I did read the article and the concept of "rape culture" isn't all that new to me, though I suppose mainly interpretations varying in zealotry of the speaker/writer, heh. Will have to find a widely accepted version of what it is, beyond people having improper (the frame of reference is the varying part, naturally) attitudes towards the crime and victims.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Malcador

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

*Reads article*

 

[Citation needed]

 

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

[BruceVC]

 

Yes but Croatia is like Serbia, the place is a warzone isn't it

Hey, could be a rape capital like SA

 

 

Malc that's very cheeky, but you right. We have the  inauspicious honour of apparently being near the  worst in several areas like murder and   rape

 

 

Why do I have the nagging feeling that neither of you have read the article in question?

Probably because you're **** as always ? My comment was more on the discussion that followed the article, as I didn't quote Bruce's post, shirty. Large part of the reason these women, at least the ones I've read, waited so long was more due to Cosby's fame and wealth than some concept.

 

Also, shouldn't there be a trigger warning on this article ?

 

 

I'm honestly curious what **** means in this case. Also, "shirty"?

 

Anyways, I wonder why would someone jump in to comment on the validity of rape culture claims without first reading what said claims are.

 

 

Also I don't understand your point Malc, are you saying ostensibly his victims didn't report him because they were worried he was too famous and wealthy and they knew they would lose in court ?

Edited November 21, 2014 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

Indeed, my home country is competing with Jamaica for most violent place in the Caribeean (excl. Haiti) so I am not throwing stones seriously.

 

Some of them said they didn't want to speak up as he was famous and they'd be a backlash, etc. against them due to suspicion of blackmail (though, without proof it's a bit BS to label him a rapist), also wealth usually helps a lot with any court case that does come up (better lawyers for one).

Edited November 21, 2014 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

*Reads article*

 

[Citation needed]

 

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

Bad judgement call there young grasshopper, its okay to assume guilt if you are right about the accusation

 

The pattern and frequency of the rape charges tell us something, celebrities don't get this degree of victimisation unless there is something to it

[Gfted1]

This whole Cosby furore raises some interesting and pertinent societal questions. Like "do we seem to give celebrities more leeway around these types of crimes"

Do we assume any allegation "can't be true, the person claiming it must just want money ". One of the reasons is  we probably think  "how could Cosby be a habitual rapist when he has everything he wants and surly doesn't need to rape any women"...

I didn't have the energy to slog through six pages so this may have been addressed; nobody got a free pass as nobody bothered reporting the crimes until ~40 years later, much after the statute of limitations ran out.

 

But where there's smoke there's fire, imo.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I did read the article and the concept of "rape culture" isn't all that new to me, though I suppose mainly interpretations varying in zealotry of the speaker/writer, heh. Will have to find a widely accepted version of what it is, beyond people having improper (the frame of reference is the varying part, naturally) attitudes towards the crime and victims.

 

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

[BruceVC]

 

This whole Cosby furore raises some interesting and pertinent societal questions. Like "do we seem to give celebrities more leeway around these types of crimes"

Do we assume any allegation "can't be true, the person claiming it must just want money ". One of the reasons is  we probably think  "how could Cosby be a habitual rapist when he has everything he wants and surly doesn't need to rape any women"...

I didn't have the energy to slog through six pages so this may have been addressed; nobody got a free pass as nobody bothered reporting the crimes until ~40 years later, much after the statute of limitations ran out.

 

But where there's smoke there's fire, imo.

 

 

That's a valid point but you are overlooking an even more relevant one ..." why did they wait 40 years"

[Gorgon]

"But it's deeper than that. We live in a society where even the most ordinary and anonymous of accused rapists is offered the benefit of social and legal doubt. This is why we're quick to chalk up rapes, particularly acquaintance rapes, as "misunderstandings" or "miscommunications" rather than the crimes that they are."

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would just like to point out that there are good reasons why this is the case. In the vast majority of rape reports there are just the two witnesses with conflicting stories and no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that can prove that the sex was rape. If such alegations were made publicly without a guilty verdict then that would be slander.

[BruceVC]

 

I did read the article and the concept of "rape culture" isn't all that new to me, though I suppose mainly interpretations varying in zealotry of the speaker/writer, heh. Will have to find a widely accepted version of what it is, beyond people having improper (the frame of reference is the varying part, naturally) attitudes towards the crime and victims.

 

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

 

 

I don't like to often do this  but I am going to pull a  " BruceVC" and say this is both a sobering and very accurate post. A  very good series of points

 

It will surprise me if anyone disagrees with you

[kgambit]

 

*Reads article*

 

[Citation needed]

 

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

Bad judgement call there young grasshopper, its okay to assume guilt if you are right about the accusation

 

The pattern and frequency of the rape charges tell us something, celebrities don't get this degree of victimisation unless there is something to it

 

 

Wow Bruce.  So because your SJW "spidey-sense" is tingling you're ready to pronounce Cosby guilty without hearing any actual evidence?   Seriously?  And this from the guy who defended the Canadian courts for letting an alleged contract killer free because they had heard evidence that we hadn't.  Talk about a double standard!

 

Thank god you can never serve on a jury in the US if you are willing to prejudge the guilt or innocence of a man without hearing all the facts.

 

You know better (or at least you should)  Badly played, Bruce.  Badly played. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by kgambit

[BruceVC]

 

 

*Reads article*

 

[Citation needed]

 

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

Bad judgement call there young grasshopper, its okay to assume guilt if you are right about the accusation

 

The pattern and frequency of the rape charges tell us something, celebrities don't get this degree of victimisation unless there is something to it

 

 

Wow Bruce.  So because your SJW "spidey-sense" is tingling you're ready to pronounce Cosby guilty without hearing any actual evidence?   Seriously?  And this from the guy who defended the Canadian courts for letting an alleged contract killer free because they had heard evidence that we hadn't.  Talk about a double standard!

 

Thank god you can never serve on a jury in the US (or South Africa) if you are willing to prejudge the guilt or innocence of a man without hearing all the facts.

 

You know better (or at least you should)  Badly played, Bruce.  Badly played. 

 

 

Now you making me feel guilty....that's unfair

 

I think most people think he is guilty of some charges of abuse, I'm just saying it openly

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

*Reads article*

[Citation needed]

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

 

Bad judgement call there young grasshopper, its okay to assume guilt if you are right about the accusation

 

The pattern and frequency of the rape charges tell us something, celebrities don't get this degree of victimisation unless there is something to it

But you can't know if you are right about the accusations. Anecdotal evidence is not valid proof. If you do not want Cosby to be thought innocent, you must prove him guilty.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

Wow. That's really, really messed up. What country was that?

 

My country, Croatia.

Plenty of similar cases. It usually involves a trial with minimal exposure to media, usually when there's anotehr scandal or breaking news to occupy the masses.

The sentence is a bear minimum in a minimum security prison. As soon as the media hype blows over the sentences gets quietly reduced to basically nothing for good behavior and stuff like that.

 

In other words, they guy gets out in a matter of a few months, tops.

 

Yes but Croatia is like Serbia, the place is a warzone isn't it

 

 

Neither country has been a warzone for 15 years. And both had a functioning justice system and basic equality of rights while you were still forbidding blacks from using the same toilets as whites.

 

Incidentally, even today, after all the wars and economic hardship, there's still less crime and less violence in these parts than in South Africa.

[kgambit]

 

 

 

*Reads article*

 

[Citation needed]

 

As to Cosby and rape, I have not seen conclusive evidence that he is guilty, so I will presume innocence.

Bad judgement call there young grasshopper, its okay to assume guilt if you are right about the accusation

 

The pattern and frequency of the rape charges tell us something, celebrities don't get this degree of victimisation unless there is something to it

 

 

Wow Bruce.  So because your SJW "spidey-sense" is tingling you're ready to pronounce Cosby guilty without hearing any actual evidence?   Seriously?  And this from the guy who defended the Canadian courts for letting an alleged contract killer free because they had heard evidence that we hadn't.  Talk about a double standard!

 

Thank god you can never serve on a jury in the US (or South Africa) if you are willing to prejudge the guilt or innocence of a man without hearing all the facts.

 

You know better (or at least you should)  Badly played, Bruce.  Badly played. 

 

 

Now you making me feel guilty....that's unfair

 

I think most people think he is guilty of some charges of abuse, I'm just saying it openly

 

 

No, what is unfair is you prejudging him without hearing all the facts.  Sorry, you're not getting any sympathy from me.  

Edited November 21, 2014 by kgambit

[Malcador]

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

Yes, I've seen all of that before, but thanks for the sermon. When I think of rape I recall my Calc B exam, myself, not necessarily savage monsters jumping people in the dark. I did laugh at the last example though, it's rape culture to see women and not think about them being raped, but I still got the underlying point.

 

Hm, have to imagine most people think of violent crimes in dramatic ways barring any experience indirectly with it in their lives and more unpleasant than the average offense. Wil have to ask around but in the past people's idea of murder has been a violent attack or robbery rather than getting hit by missed shots or your husband, or something.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Malcador