Thoughts from a casual gamer

[Yonjuro]

....

 

My first impressions are like many here: it is a graphically pleasant game, but the combat system removes all fun from the game.  Honestly, I am very disappointed and if this does not change, my money will have been a waste.  I don't find this playable and certainly not enjoyable.  This is the game equivalent of Harn back in the table tops days: Lovely maps, but the combat system was so realistic, it took forever to resolve and you would die of infection from the slightest of wounds.  Realistic? yes.  Fun? not really.  But it DID have pretty graphics.

 

I sure hope this is remedied somehow.

 

 

  I agree that the combat in the beta needs work (and, from what they have posted here and elsewhere, the developers agree). However, PoE is aimed at fans of the Infinity Engine games. Does that describe you? I'm asking because I wouldn't classify them as casual games at all. 

 

That said, I think you'll find that the combat gets a lot easier once you get used to it. I also found that it seemed much too fast at the beginning, due, in part to some issues with the UI, but it seems a lot more manageable now after I've gotten used to it.

[Lord Wafflebum]

I don't mean to insult you, but how did you end up backing this game with a high enough amount to play the beta?

The first 60 seconds of the kickstarter introduction show a slideshow of previous titles - Fallout 1 and 2, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Planescape Torment, PoEE. All these titles require learning a system and using (or abusing) it as much as you can.

 

I fully expect, yes HOPE, for the combat mechanics to be complex. And MEANINGFUL as well. I fully support a combat system that not only rewards you for learning, but one that punishes you if you refuse to learn.

There's an abundance of easy theme park games being released, across all genres, we don't need more. Dark Souls for PC was a blessing in this regard, but i think its more of an action adventure than an RPG.

 

 

That is why i backed Project Eternity/Pillars of Eternity. It is my one hope outside of roguelikes to see a challenging RPG. Baldur's Gate killed my first mage in the tutorial, and countless more times. Frustration is temporary, satisfaction and achievement at overcoming obstacles is lasting and makes fond memories.

If Dark Souls if your ideal gameplay type we have very little in common in what we enjoy in games.

 

I'll repeat to you what I've said to others. How does aiming the Easy level difficulty of the game affect you whatsoever? If you're into Dark Souls I'll bet you'll play on the hardest difficulty or darn close. I very seriously doubt you would consider playing on Easy difficulty. Why then are you for marginalizing casual gamers? Why do you feel we should not be allowed to enjoy the game when it does not affect your gameplay style?

[Lord Wafflebum]

Okay, so I just downloaded and used this today.  I've been waiting for the mac version of this.  Oddly, I did not get an email about that as I have for all other major developments via kickstarter.  Oh well.

 

Got my ass handed to me on a platter during the first melee, which was constantly interrupted and not very straight forward at all.  That led me to this forum, since I consider myself a casual gamer, not really having the inclination or time to be otherwise.

 

That led me to some 'passive party' strategy YouTUbe, which I followed and STILL lost the melee at the bridge.  Badly.  wtf?

 

My first impressions are like many here: it is a graphically pleasant game, but the combat system removes all fun from the game.  Honestly, I am very disappointed and if this does not change, my money will have been a waste.  I don't find this playable and certainly not enjoyable.  This is the game equivalent of Harn back in the table tops days: Lovely maps, but the combat system was so realistic, it took forever to resolve and you would die of infection from the slightest of wounds.  Realistic? yes.  Fun? not really.  But it DID have pretty graphics.

 

I sure hope this is remedied somehow.

Fear not RoughOne, I truly believe it will get better for us. The beta from what Josh Sawyer has alluded to will not represent the difficulty we'll face when we play the full release. The learning curve will be far less steep. After spending some time with Shevek and Sensuki's tutorials (which they made for people like us, bless their hearts) I can actually play the game without being constantly and mercilessly slaughtered. Also, for the next beta version it sounds like the tweaks to make combat more reasonable will be put in place. I'd say wait until the next beta build and try again. I'm optimistic that it'll be more how we need it to be. Maybe not perfect, but I from what Josh Sawyer has said in other threads it sounds like they're on the right track. 

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

....

 

My first impressions are like many here: it is a graphically pleasant game, but the combat system removes all fun from the game.  Honestly, I am very disappointed and if this does not change, my money will have been a waste.  I don't find this playable and certainly not enjoyable.  This is the game equivalent of Harn back in the table tops days: Lovely maps, but the combat system was so realistic, it took forever to resolve and you would die of infection from the slightest of wounds.  Realistic? yes.  Fun? not really.  But it DID have pretty graphics.

 

I sure hope this is remedied somehow.

 

 

  I agree that the combat in the beta needs work (and, from what they have posted here and elsewhere, the developers agree). However, PoE is aimed at fans of the Infinity Engine games. Does that describe you? I'm asking because I wouldn't classify them as casual games at all. 

 

That said, I think you'll find that the combat gets a lot easier once you get used to it. I also found that it seemed much too fast at the beginning, due, in part to some issues with the UI, but it seems a lot more manageable now after I've gotten used to it.

 

I disagree. Baldur's Gate was a very much a casual fantasy set game during its time. While maybe not the most intuitive game, I was able to play the game fairly easily with almost zero understanding of how the actual mechanics of the game worked.

[Yonjuro]

 

 

....

 

 

  I agree that the combat in the beta needs work (and, from what they have posted here and elsewhere, the developers agree). However, PoE is aimed at fans of the Infinity Engine games. Does that describe you? I'm asking because I wouldn't classify them as casual games at all. ...

I disagree. Baldur's Gate was a very much a casual fantasy set game during its time. While maybe not the most intuitive game, I was able to play the game fairly easily with almost zero understanding of how the actual mechanics of the game worked.

 

 I think you might be remembering the last time you played Baldur's Gate and not the first time you played it. 

 

 The first map outside of Candlekeep has 2 wolves (one of them randomly spawns as a dire wolf). Each of them can one or two hit kill your PC (depending on class and stats). The second map has two groups of archers that can also or or two hit kill your PC, an ogre that can do likewise plus a bunch of other enemies. The third map has a mage that casts horror and magic missile (two of his magic missiles will, you guessed it, kill your PC and if you got hit with his horror spell, you were in no position to stop him). This is only what you encounter if you follow the maps indicated in the story. If you wander off onto another map you get to spiders with web traps, flesh golems, ankhegs, basilisks etc. All of these things will kill your level 1 PC.

 

 Over time, we all learned tactics to stay out of trouble as a low level character and metagame knowledge of where the dangerous enemies were, but I wouldn't call it a casual game (until you know what you're doing).

[Lord Wafflebum]

No worries, my memory is just fine! Probably. Maybe. I don't know now.

 

I'm pretty sure there was a difficulty slider, so we may not have had the same experience with the game. It took me until my third playthrough to realize a high armor class was bad. Admittedly, I did wonder why I had such a tough time with Sarevok the first couple times.

 

I would ask that you don't assume that because folks like RoughOne and I are casual gamers that there is no way we could enjoy the old IE games. We're here for the story, the lore, and the view. It's the same reason I love Bioware games (although lately I've been a bit sour with them for reasons that don't need mentioning). Love me some interactive movies. That said, are you of the opinion that Easy difficulty should still disclude enjoyment for casual gamers? Is that offensive to you as it for some reason is for some on this forum? I'm not trying to be a ****; I legitimately want to know.

[Sensuki]

The biggest killer in Baldur's Gate 1 if you played Baldur's Gate 1 back in the day was the Bandits waylaying you on the way to the Friendly Arm Inn, which had a very high chance of occuring.

 

It is very easy to just follow the road to the Friendly Arm Inn without seeing a hostile creature, and the Wizard guy that beats you on the stairs isn't hard to beat after a few reloads, and I understood even at 13 years old that I needed to interrupt his Mirror Image spell or I lost the fight.

 

I don't think Lord Wafflebum is incorrect, I was able to finish BG1 as a young teenager without paying much attention to mechanics, and so did many other people.

[Yonjuro]

 

I would ask that you don't assume that because folks like RoughOne and I are casual gamers that there is no way we could enjoy the old IE games.....

 

 Actually, I was going to suggest exactly the opposite. When I hear 'casual gamer' I tend to think of games like Angry Birds or something like that. BG was more involved (both story and gameplay) and if you liked it, I assume you will like PoE. I think the time commitment and skill level will be similar.

[Yonjuro]

The biggest killer in Baldur's Gate 1 if you played Baldur's Gate 1 back in the day was the Bandits waylaying you on the way to the Friendly Arm Inn, which had a very high chance of occuring.

 

It is very easy to just follow the road to the Friendly Arm Inn without seeing a hostile creature, and the Wizard guy that beats you on the stairs isn't hard to beat after a few reloads, and I understood even at 13 years old that I needed to interrupt his Mirror Image spell or I lost the fight.

 

I don't think Lord Wafflebum is incorrect, I was able to finish BG1 as a young teenager without paying much attention to mechanics, and so did many other people.

 

 I agree; see my response to him.

 

 (I was in an even worse condition than you were. BG was the first computer game I ever played and I was already old and without a lot of time on my hands.)

 

 My point was exactly the opposite; if someone liked the IE games, I put them in a category that I don't call 'casual gamer' (someone who will complete a game with a long story and a learning curve) and assume that they will do just fine with PoE (once OE gets the bugs worked out of it).

Edited November 25, 2014 by Yonjuro

[archangel979]

While we are talking about casual players playing BG1, I had a "pleasure" yesterday of helping one finish Sarevok fight for his first time. He had the difficulty all the way to easiest, came to the fight at lvl 6 (due to skipping half the content and mostly following main quest), had crappy equipment, didn't use buffs or potions and didn't understand any of the standard tactics.

 

He died like 10+ times in Sarevok fight and only managed to do it once I told him about prebuffing, summoning and potion buffing. He was ready to quit the game without trying to figure it out himself.

 

He was a younger gamer, used to MMORPGs. Now, I don't know if PoE should be like BG1 and be punishing bad players in certain fights. Or if it should cater more to casual gamers and be like other games where following main quest will get your enough XP and equipment that you can beat easily all required fights on Easy without a need for thought, planning or tactics.

Edited November 25, 2014 by archangel979

[Sensuki]

Option #1. That's why many of us backed the project. We want a game like the Infinity Engine games and are sick of watered down RPGs. Many of the elements in this game have been watered down a little bit, but at least it's better than nothing.

[Rumsteak]

Baldur's Gate was a very much a casual fantasy set game during its time. While maybe not the most intuitive game, I was able to play the game fairly easily with almost zero understanding of how the actual mechanics of the game worked.

 

+1. Again, I totally agree 100% with Lord Wafflebum. In BG1, the only thing I had to wrap my head around back in the day was how AC worked. Then I could just sit back and enjoy the game.

 

On the other hand, in the PoE beta, even after wrapping my head around lots of new things and trying to optimize my 5 people party by switching weapons and carefully pondering new spells and talents (spent a lot more effort on this beta than on BG1), I stil got pwned when casually engaging 6 beetles at a time on normal. It was fine when isolating one or two of them at a time "Shevek style", but found that so soul-crushingly boring and unchallenging that I tried to attack a whole group. I thought I would have my chances since for 3-4 months I had been scouring these forums threads and watched many Youtube videos and noted their points, so it's not like I was unprepared for a tougher fight. And yes, I could recruit a sixth companion and yada yada, but I think my party setup was okay enough for this kind of combat.

 

When my party got crushed (this was after 40 minutes of playing), I just rage-quitted and decided to give only UI feedback on these forums. I haven't played the beta since. I am now waiting for the next patch, though I think I'll have to wait for several months before I can enjoy the game, if at all. I am not a number cruncher and I may be rusty RPG-wise or just have bad analysis skills, but my experience in BG1 was totally different even at level 5: if I wanted to, I could fool around in normal mode. I was just 13 and didn't spend time on understanding stats. I feel like I cannot make a single mistake on tough fights in PoE's normal mode, while I could do that in BG1.

 

I believe that the problems mentioned above will be fixed by the time the game is released. The next imminent patch may even address most of them.

 

I just sincerely hope that I can play the game on normal when it gets released, without getting bored. I played BG1 and Torment on normal and had a ton of fun. I wouldn't say that I am an IE veteran but I did play these games for a long time, so I think I am eligible for normal mode according to Josh Sawyer in this tumblr post:

 

For IE veterans, I would recommend Hard if you really want challenging combat, Normal if you want some challenge but it’s not really the focus of your game.  For people who are new to this style of game, I recommend Normal if you really want the challenge, Easy if that’s not your focus.

 

After reading this quote, I would be really upset if I was forced to play on Easy since it's supposed to be for people "new to this style of game".

 

</rant></butthurt>

Edited November 25, 2014 by Rumsteak

[IndiraLightfoot]

Rumsteak: I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I am holding my breath, perhaps naively, for combat to find its natural rhythm and variation soon, hopefully already in the upcoming patch. There is this bizarre mix of urgency, indifference and helplessness to combat that I want to bury for good in this beta. 

[WotanAnubis]

Figured I might as well throw in my two cents.

 

In my rather simplistic view there are 3 kinds of people who would like to play an Obsidian/Infinity Engine game: Those who play it for the combat, those play it for the story (& world & characters) and those who play it for both.

 

Those who don't much care for the story can just ram that mouse button and get back to the fighting ASAP. Those who play it for the story don't have that luxury. They have to learn the combat mechanics, at least on some basic level, because if they don't they die and then they can't continue with the parts of the game they actually care about.

 

I have no problem at all with Hard being Hard. But I also feel quite strongly that Easy should be Easy because combat is just one part of the experience and, as such, should not stand in the way of people enjoying all the the other parts of the experience. Immersing myself in a new and interesting world is so much more valuable to me than brilliantly positioning and controlling my team so that they can flawlessly battle a group of beetles.

 

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[Namutree]

Figured I might as well throw in my two cents.

 

In my rather simplistic view there are 3 kinds of people who would like to play an Obsidian/Infinity Engine game: Those who play it for the combat, those play it for the story (& world & characters) and those who play it for both.

 

Those who don't much care for the story can just ram that mouse button and get back to the fighting ASAP. Those who play it for the story don't have that luxury. They have to learn the combat mechanics, at least on some basic level, because if they don't they die and then they can't continue with the parts of the game they actually care about.

 

I have no problem at all with Hard being Hard. But I also feel quite strongly that Easy should be Easy because combat is just one part of the experience and, as such, should not stand in the way of people enjoying all the the other parts of the experience. Immersing myself in a new and interesting world is so much more valuable to me than brilliantly positioning and controlling my team so that they can flawlessly battle a group of beetles.

 

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

This post is awesome and your profile pic is awesome. FE7 for the win!

[archangel979]

Option #1. That's why many of us backed the project. We want a game like the Infinity Engine games and are sick of watered down RPGs. Many of the elements in this game have been watered down a little bit, but at least it's better than nothing.

And yet OE has already said that biggest challenges will not be on the main quest road. I also have a feeling they will not let players get to last fight underleveled and undergeared.

[RoughOne]

 

....

 

My first impressions are like many here: it is a graphically pleasant game, but the combat system removes all fun from the game.  Honestly, I am very disappointed and if this does not change, my money will have been a waste.  I don't find this playable and certainly not enjoyable.  This is the game equivalent of Harn back in the table tops days: Lovely maps, but the combat system was so realistic, it took forever to resolve and you would die of infection from the slightest of wounds.  Realistic? yes.  Fun? not really.  But it DID have pretty graphics.

 

I sure hope this is remedied somehow.

 

 

  I agree that the combat in the beta needs work (and, from what they have posted here and elsewhere, the developers agree). However, PoE is aimed at fans of the Infinity Engine games. Does that describe you? I'm asking because I wouldn't classify them as casual games at all. 

 

That said, I think you'll find that the combat gets a lot easier once you get used to it. I also found that it seemed much too fast at the beginning, due, in part to some issues with the UI, but it seems a lot more manageable now after I've gotten used to it.

 

Oh I'm quite the fan of games that use that engine.  In fact, the first time I played BG1, I was in awe as I felt someone had FINALLY made DnD on a computer well.  It was quite an astounding experience, actually.  That said, this game has potential, but it has some pretty rough edges.  Having to 'game' the beta is disappointing to say the least.  I suppose the designers are so wrapped up in the mechanics that they have forgotten their learned skills with the game.

 

Being a casual gamer, there is little time or inclination to do that, however.  Thus my overall disappointment.  I too backed this because I wanted an RPG and if it was not DnD, so much the better, imo.  [by my reckoning, DnD has morphed in manys I find distasteful, having cut my teeth on the six booklets and chainmail.  yes, I'm that old ...]  The setting is lovely, the quest I'm sure heroic, but if the system is THAT busy, and boy is this a busy combat system, I simply will not play this game.

 

Perhaps the beta is set at too high a level with too many options to showcase the system; I do not know.  You are overwhelmed with classes and options which are not all similar to DnD sorts of games which is a mixed bag: new is awesome, but, as you imply, there is a learning curve for that.  I will try this again, I'm sure, but at this point, this is not a game I will love to play.

[Lord Wafflebum]

@RoughOne

A sentiment more than a few of us share, and I think OE is aware of it. And you've hit exactly on the problem with the beta as it has been explained to me: It's just not a good balance. I think Sensuki mentioned it's set somewhere like 1/3 into the game, well off the main path (mostly to avoid spoilers), equipped with starter level gear, and not even a learning curve. It's a learning cliff. It's nice to use it to play around with what they've made so far, but it's likely not representative of how the final product will play. 

 

@Yonjuro

Ah, there it is. We have different perspectives on what casual gamers are. I consider the "Angry Birds Crowd" less casual gamers and more people who get bored while they poo. My definition of a casual gamer is someone who plays games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls on one of the easier difficulties because they want to enjoy the story over the combat. People that play Sims games. Folks that having a computer specifically for gaming, but want a light, enjoyable, and only mildly challenging experience. My real life job primarily involves being yelled at for 8-10 hours because old people who need to retire forget where they put things. I come home to play games to relax and immerse myself in a story; I don't want to get MORE agitated because I didn't utilize a specific mechanic to it's maximum and can't get past a certain point because of it. I want to enjoy and interact with the wonderful world OE dreamed up for us to mess around in. That is what I define as casual gaming. Just being able to play around with what folks have put out there for us.

[Yonjuro]

 

 

....

 

My first impressions are like many here: it is a graphically pleasant game, but the combat system removes all fun from the game.  Honestly, I am very disappointed and if this does not change, my money will have been a waste.  I don't find this playable and certainly not enjoyable.  This is the game equivalent of Harn back in the table tops days: Lovely maps, but the combat system was so realistic, it took forever to resolve and you would die of infection from the slightest of wounds.  Realistic? yes.  Fun? not really.  But it DID have pretty graphics.

 

I sure hope this is remedied somehow.

 

 

  I agree that the combat in the beta needs work (and, from what they have posted here and elsewhere, the developers agree). However, PoE is aimed at fans of the Infinity Engine games. Does that describe you? I'm asking because I wouldn't classify them as casual games at all. 

 

That said, I think you'll find that the combat gets a lot easier once you get used to it. I also found that it seemed much too fast at the beginning, due, in part to some issues with the UI, but it seems a lot more manageable now after I've gotten used to it.

 

Oh I'm quite the fan of games that use that engine.  In fact, the first time I played BG1, I was in awe as I felt someone had FINALLY made DnD on a computer well.  It was quite an astounding experience, actually.  That said, this game has potential, but it has some pretty rough edges.  Having to 'game' the beta is disappointing to say the least.  I suppose the designers are so wrapped up in the mechanics that they have forgotten their learned skills with the game.

 

 

 One other thing that might be worth knowing: I had no experience with DnD at all before playing BG. I didn't know anything about the stats, how attacks/defenses were resolved, saving throws, stats of different creatures/enemy types etc.  It was all new to me. PoE is similarly new and I would say that it has a similar learning curve (which is very manageable). I agree that the beta is rough around the edges but my experience with BG tells me that PoE won't be a problem for you if you enjoyed BG1. I think, if anything, once they work the bugs out, the beginning of the game will be less difficult in PoE because the game is designed with a smoother power curve.

 

 

 

..

@Yonjuro

Ah, there it is. We have different perspectives on what casual gamers are. I consider the "Angry Birds Crowd" less casual gamers and more people who get bored while they poo. My definition of a casual gamer is someone who plays games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls on one of the easier difficulties because they want to enjoy the story over the combat. People that play Sims games. Folks that having a computer specifically for gaming, but want a light, enjoyable, and only mildly challenging experience. My real life job primarily involves being yelled at for 8-10 hours because old people who need to retire forget where they put things. I come home to play games to relax and immerse myself in a story; I don't want to get MORE agitated because I didn't utilize a specific mechanic to it's maximum and can't get past a certain point because of it. I want to enjoy and interact with the wonderful world OE dreamed up for us to mess around in. That is what I define as casual gaming. Just being able to play around with what folks have put out there for us.

 

 Yup, (as usual,) the disagreement was the result of starting with different definitions.  

 

 Ok, so, now that we know what we're talking about, I am a casual gamer by your definition too (maybe slightly less casual):

 

 I also play these games to get drawn into the game world and the story but am looking for something a little more challenging than a puzzle based adventure game because the challenge is part of the experience (if the game can't hurt you it seems less real? -- something like that anyway).

 

 My first BG1 game was played on 'Normal'. After that, I always played the IE games on 'Core' (one of the middle difficulties) once I got over the learning curve. These days I will use a harder setting because I know the games too well (meaning I have too much meta game knowledge) to get much out of playing them on easier difficulties. 

 

 Anyway, based on the beta and the available information, my impression of PoE (for whatever one opinion is worth) is that, if you played the IE games, you will find that it has a similar learning curve and will be a little more forgiving at the start of the game than BG1 or IWD1 .

[Lord Wafflebum]

I play fairly closely to you. I typically start off on Easy, then after I've become very comfortable with the system I'll do a third slow/completionist playthrough on Normal.

 

I agree with your impressions tho. After what Josh Sawyer has been putting out lately I am very optimistic that Easy and Normal are going to feel similarly to our experiences with the BG series. From what he said will likely be coming out in the next build, I think we'll really begin to see the promise of this game come through.

[YunikoYokai5]

I play fairly closely to you. I typically start off on Easy, then after I've become very comfortable with the system I'll do a third slow/completionist playthrough on Normal.

 

I usually do this as well, mostly so I can learn the mechanics and everything. Once I know I won't die in combat, I bump up the difficulty for future playthroughs. I pretty much fit in with Waffle's definition of a casual gamer (although I do have some less casual games like Company of Heroes 2, Left 4 Dead (is that classed as casual? I have no idea!) and a few other faster paced games. Need to borrow my brother's Silent Hill 2 copy as well...). My hope is that easy is easy, normal is challenging for the newer players but reasonably easy for experienced players, Hard is Hard and NIghtmare (or whatever the last tier is) is Dark Souls level of torture. I'm putting my faith in Obsidian. if all else fails, I am playing BG:EE so hopefully I will be able to handle some challenge in case easy isn't as easy as I hope it would be!

[oenoneablaze]

Lord Wafflebum and others, 

 

I just wanted to thank you for expressing your opinion as steadfastly and clearly as you have throughout this thread—I came to this forum wanting to post something similar but it seems that you have collectively expressed what I came to say much more thoroughly than I would have been able to do on my own. I wanted to share my experience as a relatively casual gamer and someone who greatly enjoyed and played isometric RPGs like BG, BGII, NWN, Fallout, Arcanum, etc. multiple times each:

 

On the Easy setting in the IE games, I could just click on a monster and it would generally die, and then I could move on to the next monster etc. I see no reason why an Easy setting in this game should not be the same. I have no desire to think about strategy or tactics except perhaps with the exception of a boss encounter. Like many of the others who have chimed in, I don't see how providing this kind of "very easy" mode would detract from the experience of others wanting a challenge.

 

I died multiple times to beetles. I watched a video about how to kill beetles and died afterwards anyway. On Easy. I spent two hours trying to figure it out and then I rage quit. I play other games in a variety of genres on harder difficulties and do just fine. Even so, maybe I'm not good at games, sure.  I'll be very, very disappointed, though, if it turns out that I can't enjoy the story and art of PoE just because the tactics just don't come as easily to me as it seems they did to others on this thread.

 

Thanks. I hope the developers are aware of these issues.

[archangel979]

Tactics in these games usually come down to reading what all your options do. I seen lots of people play BG1 and dying constantly because they don't bother to read what all the cleric and mage spells do. They rather savescum 5 times until RNG gods love them then use a right spell or potion for the situation.

[Lord Wafflebum]

@oenoneablaze

 

Don't be discouraged. The latest BB build was a huge step in the right direction for folks like us. Once the combat mechanics are fully worked out, in addition to what Josh Sawyer has said about the beginning of the game teaching us what we need to know to succeed in the game, we're going to have the full release of the game where we want it.

 

Unfortunately the beta has an extremely steep learning curve that just won't be in the full release. Also, v364 has shown (to me, at least) how much some balance and bug tweaking can vastly improve combat feel. If they keep it up I have every confidence it will be a game we can enjoy. The folks that are hardcore combat lovers might have a different take on it, tho. While Josh hasn't commented in the casual gamers threads, the things he has said in others threads assures me he and his team are very much aware of how we feel and what we would like to see from the lower difficulties.