New build coming soon?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm among those that only briefly played 301 due to Wasteland. I'm waiting for the new version to get into it again so that I can come here and agree with everything Sensuki says.

Are you the anti-nipsen?

[Marceror]

Hey Sensuki, it looks like your targeting reticule suggestions will be in the next beta update. That was a Sensuki direct request if ever I saw one. So hey, they're listening.

[Lephys]

Not to say that they aren't listening, but, I think it would be a mistake to assume they aren't considering any of these things already, on their own.

 

They're not just assuming everything's absolutely 100% brilliant and perfect, until someone comes along and says "Hey, maybe change this like this, for example." Then they just go "ORDER: RECEIVED. EXECUTING."

 

But, yeah, it is good to know they're taking our feedback into consideration.

[Marceror]

Not to say that they aren't listening, but, I think it would be a mistake to assume they aren't considering any of these things already, on their own.

 

They're not just assuming everything's absolutely 100% brilliant and perfect, until someone comes along and says "Hey, maybe change this like this, for example." Then they just go "ORDER: RECEIVED. EXECUTING."

 

But, yeah, it is good to know they're taking our feedback into consideration.

Generally speaking, assuming is a mistake period. But my guess is there's a bit of both going on. There are likely going to be a few things that make it in that are purely due to fan requests, and plenty more that were already on the table and we help influence some of the final decisions.

 

But damn, let's let Sensuki get some credit for a change. Even the terminology "targeting reticule" was used by OE. To my knowledge that is not some standard term for what was being discussed. But it sounded like a very smart thing to call it when Sensuki referred to it as such, and apparently Obsidian has even adopted his terminology. I believe OE clearly intended that part of their update as a nod to Sensuki.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Marceror

[Lephys]

^ Agreed. I'm not trying to give Sensuki no credit. I'm just trying to give both him (and other suggestors like him) AND Team Obsidian credit, simultaneously.

 

I've just noticed this sentiment crop up pretty much every time they make a change to the game. Like the only reason behind any of their decisions to change anything is "someone on the forums said to."

 

Again, not trying to call someone out directly in this thread for that exact sentiment. It's just related, so decided to comment on it, and encourage the notion that the team's probably considering and re-considering things on a daily basis, with or without us, and our suggestions and input are simply useful in conjunction with their own efforts.

[Sensuki]

I think I was the first to mention it, back in my #008 suggestion but it's a feature that pretty much everyone wanted, so it's not surprising it has been added.

[Lephys]

Still, I think you get some credit. You've been a very big part of at least articulately/objectively emphasizing several a suggestion. 8P

 

I just simultaneously encourage people to realize that Team Obsidian aren't just sitting around, picking their noses until someone suggests thought might be necessary on something. It's not an auction, and they think the game's finished, and are going to release it today unless someone else chimes in.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Lephys

[Monte Carlo]

But, yeah, it is good to know they're taking our feedback into consideration.

 

You don't give feedback, you just slavishly agree with everything the developers do and snipe at people who don't.

[Sensuki]

Not even a beta backer IIRC.

[BlueLion]

This is a big gap between builds. Missing out on a lot of bug squishing time!

[Night Stalker]

This is a big gap between builds. Missing out on a lot of bug squishing time!

Or it could be that squishing the bugs have taken a long time.

[Starwars]

New week - new scream about new build time!

 

Come on OEI!

[Gladiuss8@gmail.com]

After trying Wasteland 2 lately I\m even more worried for the Pillars of Eternity, being also the kickstarter project...

[Quantics]

The reason it's taking so long is because they want to make the next patch compatible with macs

 

:wishfulthinking:

[Doppelschwert]

But damn, let's let Sensuki get some credit for a change.

 

 

Don't act like he is not appreciated enough. There is not much on this forum that he is actually not constantly applauded for.

 

I think lephys has a point here, some people here behave like almost every positive change of the game was done because sensuki or someone else complained about stuff. I'm sure that sensuki has a lot more influence than the usual backers (and that is justified, since he adresses a lot of important issues) but I also think that the devs come up with many of his conclusions on their own.

 

It's really puzzling to me how people implicitly assume the devs are incompetent morons when they talk about stuff that is not already fixed when someone points out a flaw. I understand the fear of receiving an unfinished / subpar product, but come on, these people have experience and an internal QA team as well.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Doppelschwert

[PrimeHydra]

Out of curiosity, does Sensuki have some special relationship with OE or does he just put a lot of time into photoshops, unofficial mods and youtube videos? I've seen lots of good ideas from him AND less freuent posters, plus many mockups/redesigns that make no sense to me.

 

Here's hoping each suggestion is weighed on its own merit rather than whether it has an accompanying video and soundtrack.

 

Oh, and new build NAO kthx.

Edited October 20, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[Quantics]

Well it's a matter of visibility. If your suggestion has accompanying screenshots and videos, it makes your post more visible to everyone.

 

And more views mean more replies on the threads, which in turn is likely to draw the attention of a dev more.

 

It's a virtuous cycle.

[Lephys]

You don't give feedback, you just slavishly agree with everything the developers do and snipe at people who don't.

You're absolutely right. Never in my life have I ever criticized any part of the dev team's design, or refrained from brutally attacking someone who simply does so. That's why the boards are devoid of any examples of either scenario.

 

You get a gold star, Monte Carlo. ^_^

[Marceror]

 

But damn, let's let Sensuki get some credit for a change.

 

 

Don't act like he is not appreciated enough. There is not much on this forum that he is actually not constantly applauded for.

 

I think lephys has a point here, some people here behave like almost every positive change of the game was done because sensuki or someone else complained about stuff. I'm sure that sensuki has a lot more influence than the usual backers (and that is justified, since he adresses a lot of important issues) but I also think that the devs come up with many of his conclusions on their own.

 

It's really puzzling to me how people implicitly assume the devs are incompetent morons when they talk about stuff that is not already fixed when someone points out a flaw. I understand the fear of receiving an unfinished / subpar product, but come on, these people have experience and an internal QA team as well.

 

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, in spite of you directly quoting me, that you're not accusing me of implying that the devs are incompetent morons. Because I've made no such implication and certainly hold no such belief. My very specific statement about the inclusion of "targeting reticules" in the next patch would be a totally inappropriate basis to make such sweeping generalizations.

 

I could be wrong, but to the best of my understanding after 15+ years being an avid Infinity Engine fan, the phrase "targeting reticule" has not been part of the common vernacular. I believe Sensuki made a strong case on this particular point, and coined a good name for his point (versus, "those targetty thingies", which is what I likely would have called them). And thus not only was his idea  -- which admittedly wasn't a mind blowing epiphany on his part -- but also his terminology used in the recent KS update.  Incidentally, sometimes it takes someone stating the obvious before it's, well, obvious.

 

Again, I believe OE clearly meant to give props to Sensuki in this instance, and that's all I'm calling out here. No more, no less. I just wanted to set the record straight on that point.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Marceror

[PrimeHydra]

Are we seriously arguing about why OE called it a reticle? Damn, we need a new build to play stat!

[Marceror]

Strictly speaking yes, I suppose so, and with all the best intentions for doing so!

[Sensuki]

Out of curiosity, does Sensuki have some special relationship with OE

Nope. I'm just some random guy from the internet, just like most other people.

 

And the reason I called it a targeting reticle is because I couldn't think of anything better to call it. I learned the phrase from the Ghost Recon tutorial

 

 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Sensuki

[Doppelschwert]

 

 

But damn, let's let Sensuki get some credit for a change.

 

 

Don't act like he is not appreciated enough. There is not much on this forum that he is actually not constantly applauded for.

 

I think lephys has a point here, some people here behave like almost every positive change of the game was done because sensuki or someone else complained about stuff. I'm sure that sensuki has a lot more influence than the usual backers (and that is justified, since he adresses a lot of important issues) but I also think that the devs come up with many of his conclusions on their own.

 

It's really puzzling to me how people implicitly assume the devs are incompetent morons when they talk about stuff that is not already fixed when someone points out a flaw. I understand the fear of receiving an unfinished / subpar product, but come on, these people have experience and an internal QA team as well.

 

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, in spite of you directly quoting me, that you're not accusing me of implying that the devs are incompetent morons. Because I've made no such implication and certainly hold no such belief. My very specific statement about the inclusion of "targeting reticules" in the next patch would be a totally inappropriate basis to make such sweeping generalizations.

 

You are correct, that was not directed at you. All that was directed at you was the first paragraph below the quote, because I was really confused how you'd get the impression that sensuki should be appreciated 'for a change'. I was just too lazy to quote lephys for the other parts, so we're cool.

I won't call out people, but if you look at any discussion involving the devs changing something, you can often observe the behaviour I described, incosistent as it may be.

[Sensuki]

I think it's important that the developers remain neutral, like they are doing, regarding stuff like this. It is important that the discussion remains open. Favoritism may discourage people from contributing.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Sensuki

[Marceror]

All that was directed at you was the first paragraph below the quote, because I was really confused how you'd get the impression that sensuki should be appreciated 'for a change'.

 

The "for a change" part was primarily in relation to a certain multi-page document written about attributes, that largely faded into obscurity when OE made changes that were very similar, but ultimately different. And furthermore, I know Sensuki gets plenty of appreciation from other fans, but I haven't seen much from OE.

 

I think the targeting reticle was a subtle but clear tip of the hat from OE to the fan that's working harder than all the rest of us to evaluate and help improve the game. I felt it was worth drawing attention to.