Drama in indy gaming and games journalism part 2

[kirottu]

Ok I kind of get it why they delete forum threads to try and, as they see it, protect Zoe's personal sex life. But apparently they are deleting threads about their email list even though they say it's not a big deal.

I think it was the censorship that really started all of this. Some woman sleeping around isn't exactly news worthy and nobody really trusts game reviews anyways. But their responses, mass censorship on reddit and other forums, the "gamers are dead articles" and the total blackout of TFYC... that's news worthy.

 

Now they are again jumping on the censorship train at 4chan and reddit.

 

This might even get bigger still.

[kirottu]

[Lexx]

Is that good or bad?

[Malcador]

Isn't moot 'in' with this crowd ?

[Blarghagh]

Eh, I've never been to 4chan anyway. Their attachment to the movement damaged it by way of their terrible reputation. I mean if 4chan distances itself, people pretending #NotYourShield is a bunch of 4chan sockpuppets (which they are not) have nothing to stand on.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite/

 

 

Wow, guys.

 

Wow.

 

You know what? I don't see any point in arguing about this anymore. When you tout absolute bull**** like these as "damning evidence", it's absolutely clear that you've made up your mind, and any discussion would be a waste of my time (and yours').

[Malcador]

And that doesn't apply to you as well, eh ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

And that doesn't apply to you as well, eh ?

 

How did the saying go? "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"? I'm perfectly willing to change my viewpoint when faced with actual evidence. Which a woman who admittedly only started looking into gamer culture a few weeks ago (wasn't one of the core pillars of the criticism leveled against Sarkeesian how her views on gamers are totally invalid because she's not playing video games?), and whose "feminist" work constitutes of titles like Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women and The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men saying "no, this thing is perfectly okay" definitely does not count as. Neither does gaming journalists having private mailing lists. You know who also has private mailing lists where they discuss professional issues? Literally every other group of journalists.

 

Seriously, that Breitbart article is so stupid, my brain hurts. AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE NERVE ENDINGS

Edited September 18, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Malcador]

Yeah I can really see you changing your mind on this, heh. Considering the qualifications of the opposing camp (glorified blogger, a "developer", etc.) , I think Sommers is okay in that regard, heh.

 

Helpful to point out this clique of cool kids talks to each other (it's priceless to read their twitters, these idiots take trollbait easily as well), even if it is done by actual professionals elsewhere. Nothing wrong with letting people know the way things work.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Yeah I can really see you changing your mind on this, heh. Considering the qualifications of the opposing camp (glorified blogger, a "developer", etc.) , I think Sommers is okay in that regard, heh.

 

I'm saying that it's not newsworthy if a person who's built her entire career on criticising feminism criticises a (however ****ty) feminist analysis of video games, and touting her as "proof that even feminists think Sarkeesian and co. are full of ****" is... well, iffy.

[Blarghagh]

Except real journalist have gotten into trouble for it too. Ezra Klein, Keith Olbermann etc. all got fired for trying to coordinate smear campaigns or using these to control what messages go out. There was even a big scandal about one exact type of mailing list being used to smear politicians last year and a lot of people lost their jobs. I wanted to find a source for you but I couldn't remember what it was referred to as and google is only giving me stuff about Iranian journalists - anyone help?

[Malcador]

Is it ? Seems like she has experience in these matters. Could dismiss Sarkeesian as some liberal arts major attack dog by that same thinking as well.

[Lexx]

Well, that Breitband article *is* pretty stupid.

[Amentep]

Thing is the Brietbart article doesn't really indicate anything that wasn't known (that a group of journalists/bloggers/whatever coordinated a series of responses and articles).

 

What is there doesn't really illuminate the ethics issue (the only one that really matters IMO) any further, so - and again IMO - it adds little to the real discussion that hasn't already been incorporated.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Except real journalist have gotten into trouble for it too. Ezra Klein, Keith Olbermann etc. all got fired for trying to coordinate smear campaigns or using these to control what messages go out.

 

Smear campaigns?

 

 

A guy asking whether it's okay to report on Quinn receiving personal attacks, or would that only end up being a signal boost for the abusers. Hardly what I'd call a smear campaign.

 

 

Another guy asking if others are comfortable with people posting ****-shaming comments under their articles. Censorship? Maybe. Does, however, spreading details on Quinn's sex life have anything to offer that is relevant to the conversation? If not, why is it such a problem if they don't want their comments section to be plastered with that ****?

 

 

Some Kotaku guy denying the allegations that Grayson's ever reviewed any game made by Quinn. (Were any of those allegations proved, by the way?) Still not seeing the smear campaigning.

 

 

Someone points out that there's no point in doing anything about the whole business, because then the angry internet mob gets to play the censorship card.

 

 

There is not a single screencap in that article proving any coordinated effort on doing anything, much less organizing a smear campaign (which, I hasten to add, did not take place at all, therefore it could hardly have been organized there).

 

 

Could dismiss Sarkeesian as some liberal arts major attack dog by that same thinking as well. 

 

Didn't you already do that?

Edited September 18, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Blarghagh]

Uh, okay. I was merely commenting on your assertion of "it's okay because other journalists have mailing lists too" and not on the content of this mailing list, but fair enough.

[Malcador]

Forgot how much of a castrated twerp Kuchera is. "signal boost", though, is a good one

 

Orland from Ars posted this about the group

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations-of-collusion-among-gaming-journalists/

Edited September 18, 2014 by Malcador

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Uh, okay. I was merely commenting on your assertion of "it's okay because other journalists have mailing lists too" and not on the content of this mailing list, but fair enough.

 

I'm just weirded out at people acting as if this was the straw that broke the camel's back when there is nothing in there that proves anything being organized.

[Nonek]

All those tweets "prove" is that those journalists are on Quinn's side, and thus have lost any semblence of journalistic integirty, have proven their bias and that they are far too comfortable not representing the public, but defending a developer whom they are supposed to be judging objectively and impartially. If I were their editor i'd spank their knees for this, if they wrote pieces based on this association and passed them off as the papers opinion i'd fire them for corruption.

 

Looking at the matter from an unbiased moderate perspective.

 

Edit: Ms Sommer's video is a fine piece of work.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nonek

[aluminiumtrioxid]

All those tweets "prove" is that those journalists are on Quinn's side, and thus have lost any semblence of journalistic integirty, have proven their bias and that they are far too comfortable not representing the public, but defending a developer whom they are supposed to be judging objectively and impartially. 

 

Given that those tweets come from August 19, way before this whole thing has gotten blown up into this lovely piece of insanity and was solely about Quinn's sex life/censorship of topics discussing Quinn's sex life, I'd say pretty much any decent human being would've been on Quinn's side. If you judge objectively and impartially based on the information available back then, the only reasonable conclusion you could reach is "okay, maybe let's not give the ****-shaming internet mob a platform to do their ****-shaming on".

[Malcador]

Ah yes, so they must censor discussion...why is some nobody "developer" like Quinn important enough to warrant that ? Denying a 'signal boost' (heh) to those people gives the impression that she's something special. Certainly did fan things more.

 

I wasn't on Quinn's side then or now, I guess I am not decent.

[Nonek]

 

All those tweets "prove" is that those journalists are on Quinn's side, and thus have lost any semblence of journalistic integirty, have proven their bias and that they are far too comfortable not representing the public, but defending a developer whom they are supposed to be judging objectively and impartially. 

 

Given that those tweets come from August 19, way before this whole thing has gotten blown up into this lovely piece of insanity and was solely about Quinn's sex life/censorship of topics discussing Quinn's sex life, I'd say pretty much any decent human being would've been on Quinn's side. If you judge objectively and impartially based on the information available back then, the only reasonable conclusion you could reach is "okay, maybe let's not give the ****-shaming internet mob a platform to do their ****-shaming on".

 

 

Judging her adultery impartially I would say that I am totally apathetic towards it, except for the part where she has slept with a game journalist. I would have no compulsion to defend her like these gentlemen are doing, as it is my job as a journalist to remain impartial and unbiased, especially with a person I am supposed to be criticising for the public interest. No the whole tone of those tweets is problematic and favoured towards the young lady, whereas they should be angry about Greyson getting caught implicating himself and bringing their profession into disrepute.

 

Journalistic ethics demand no less.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nonek

[Gorgon]

I've just decided that I don't care about this anymore. Bound to happen sooner or later I suppose. 

[Malcador]

I've just decided that I don't care about this anymore. Bound to happen sooner or later I suppose.

It's decent enough material to argue pointlessly about. Hoping some major damage comes from this, myself, though.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite/

 

 

Wow, guys.

 

Wow.

 

You know what? I don't see any point in arguing about this anymore. When you tout absolute bull**** like these as "damning evidence", it's absolutely clear that you've made up your mind, and any discussion would be a waste of my time (and yours').

 

 

Relax. Just sit down here next to us and enjoy the warming flame of this event. See those flames? they are rising.