Second impressions thread! [Build 278 version]

[Qiushui]

Combat seems much better, the pacing is much more playable and I have a better idea of what is going on now.  The audio effects seem to cut in and out and the battle music can't seem to decide when it is going to stop playing.

 

Same here, also experience severe performance degradation after 15-20 mins now.

 

That coupled with the posion, DT, and Deep Wounds overkill, and I'm not even sure if this is more playable than the earlier build. With the combat speed improvements It certainly shows more potential to be enjoyable, if it was playable.

[Bryy]

Of course this drops right after I go on vacation.

 

Maine is stupid.

[GreyFox]

This is a game, which is an abstraction of reality, I don't really think there's room for a simulationist mindset like that in this game when the design is mostly the opposite - otherwise you might as well say that Might should not affect spell damage and all that stuff as well.

 

There's also no way that you can reload an Arbalest as fast as you can in this game either

 

My solution comes from a purely mechanical perspective. You'll also notice that I was talking about recovery time, the Bow animation itself is very short (pull, nock and draw) - 20 frames for a Hunting Bow actually.

 

Wanna see some ridiculous archery?

 

 

gg

 

 

I agree that the recovery time while moving should be changed or cut. The actual first impression I got when I heard that this game had recovery time paused while moving was "why""what""huh"...made no sense then and still doesn't, even after the explanation.

 

This video shows what probably was normal among elite archer units in many different cultures from eras past. That's not to say that EVERY archer was anywhere near that good but this is a fantasy game and the PC/NPCs in this game(and enemies for that matter) should be super or at least capable at doing special feats in a similar vein.

 

And the IE games game-play was based on RTSs anyway so....kiting exists in these games and is a skill...add better AI or "lockdown" moves for kiteable units if you want to combat such things. Moves such as charge from WoW...this game clearly knocks off MMOs so why not....

[GreyFox]

Hell judging from that video it's hard to argue that they got the bow power wrong in the original BG  

[Stun]

 

I don't know that I agree with that.  I do agree the inventory needs serious help though.  The number of slots on each character is WAYYY too little.  You basically have to move everything to the stash that isn't a consumable and it is just a pain in the ass.  The only reason it is even limited is to prevent the party from hoarding consumables, but it fails at this because the way it is now you are basically going to put everything in the stash that isn't a consumable so you get the same end result.

 

No, it's not to prevent the party from hoarding consumables. The 8 slot inventory is for tactical items used in combat, such as potions, scrolls, and backup weapons.

 

No, The 6 quick item slots per character are for potions and scrolls. And I would assume that when the final version of the game comes out, the 4 weapon set slots would be for backup weapons. Character inventory should be for... whatever the player wants it to be for. Like amulets, rings or armor that you're not sure whether you wish to equip or stash at the moment. Or...yes, extra consumables that you don't wish to assign to anyone just yet.

 

And yes, it should be A LOT more than just 8 slots. It should be double or triple that much so that you don't have to do the inventory housecleaning ritual every 5 minutes. I *totally* agree with Karkarov and Sensuki on this one.

 

What is needed is simply the ability to move stuff from the tactical inventory to the stash more easily, and moving loot directly to the stash.

I agree about the last part. "loot to stash" would certainly be a useful option to have when you click on a dead body or chest. But the first part doesn't address the issue at all. It's not currently 'difficult' to move stuff from your inventory to the stash. It's just tiresome when it needs to be done constantly because someone in your party got "full". Edited September 5, 2014 by Stun

[Ink Blot]

Okay, another run on Normal, this time with a Moon Godlike Fighter and I hired an adventurer as well. Made her a Fire Godlike Priest just for yucks. Took a page from Sensuki's Manual of Full Frontal Nudity and stripped the armor off the Rogue, the hired priest, and the wizard. Gave them all ranged weapons to play with. Battles were substantially better this time around. The extra party member as well as me paying attention to tactics made it so that I got through the beetle at the entrance to Dyrford Crossing, the wolves, and the spiders in the Ogre cave (except the group to the immediate right if you follow the cave around that way - we went to the top and across). Even took out the spider queen group. Had to rest twice to replenish health, and it would have been three times if you didn't gain full health after leveling. Spider queen encounter took down my three front liners, but the trio of nudists managed to take her out at the end without even getting hit.

 

I had no issues with teleporting spiders, thankfully.

 

So, I still think poison is OP, but the combat is a lot more fun with this build. Needs a bit more tweaking, IMO, but it's definitely getting there.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I agree with the nude strategy. I've been playing with quite a lot of nudists in my playthroughs as well. There's really no point in armor for ranged characters as well as melee characters like the Rogue when you have a tank taking all the hits. As long as the tank is doing their job and the other characters don't get hit, armor is mostly useless for me.

[Marceror]

I agree with the nude strategy. I've been playing with quite a lot of nudists in my playthroughs as well. There's really no point in armor for ranged characters as well as melee characters like the Rogue when you have a tank taking all the hits. As long as the tank is doing their job and the other characters don't get hit, armor is mostly useless for me.

This is pretty messed up, and I'm sure not what the devs had in mind.

 

If this truly is turning out to be one of the more sound strategies, than something is seriously wrong with the system that's been put in place.

[Marceror]

One of the goals of PoE is that no armor type would be obsolete. It's sounding like all armor is potentially going to be obsolete, except for on your tank(s).

[Sensuki]

Yeah armor is pretty horrible. If you put Plate armor on a character, you are reducing their potential DPS by 33% (not taking into account AoE spells) and their potential amount of durations by 33%

 

That loss of DPS and durations can hurt you more than the amount of protection you get from armor, especially if the character isn't suffering damage.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[Sensuki]

Also here's a tip - pick Old Vailia (for the Estoc) on whatever class - Paladin, Fighter or whatever and go into combat with that, you'll mop the floor with it as it's far and away the best melee weapon atm.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[leninghola]

Also here's a tip - pick Old Vailia (for the Estoc) on whatever class - Paladin, Fighter or whatever and go into combat with that, you'll mop the floor with it as it's far and away the best melee weapon atm.

Agreed. Imbalanced.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think the speed penalty on armor needs to be reduced by about half. Metal armor should be a bit harder to move around in, but making chracters attack in slowmo is over the top. Poison could use a nerf, maybe take a page from 3e and have it inflict status penalties over time. I think there should be some access to a wide variety of equipment shortly after creation so we can test out different loadouts.

 

Ciphers could use Health/Stamina bumped up from low to average and base accuracies flipped.

[Sensuki]

I don't think that will fix the issue though, even though it would make combat feel a bit better. Ranged characters still have no incentive whatsoever to use armor.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

This is pretty messed up, and I'm sure not what the devs had in mind.

 

If this truly is turning out to be one of the more sound strategies, than something is seriously wrong with the system that's been put in place.

 

 

One of the goals of PoE is that no armor type would be obsolete. It's sounding like all armor is potentially going to be obsolete, except for on your tank(s).

 

lulz.

 

Try it out. Combat is faster and easier.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I don't think that will fix the issue though, even though it would make combat feel a bit better. Ranged characters still have no incentive whatsoever to use armor.

 

Yep. As long as there is a penalty, you're gimping yourself.

[PrimeJunta]

I don't think that will fix the issue though, even though it would make combat feel a bit better. Ranged characters still have no incentive whatsoever to use armor.

 

Why would second-row characters wear armor anyway? 

 

I'd guess to defend against archers and such. We haven't seen many, nor massed, and currently they don't appear to target second-row characters much.

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

Metal armor should be a bit harder to move around in...

 

Have seen re-enactors in 3/4 suits of Milanese plate doing virtual acrobatics.

[Sensuki]

Why would second-row characters wear armor anyway? 

 

I'd guess to defend against archers and such. We haven't seen many, nor massed, and currently they don't appear to target second-row characters much.

Yeah well I deliberately haven't played all the content in the beta as I want to wait until issues with combat and bugs are fixed, but I haven't fought one encounter with an archer yet, but I know there are some encounters with only one or two.

 

I think one issue with this atm is there's not much incentive to have many melee characters for a number of reasons - bad pathfinding, slow attack speed in armor, movement pausing recovery, smaller areas with larger enemies, heavy ranged weapons doing really good damage and class outfits - Priests, Wizards and Druids are all very caster-y, so is the Cipher. Ranger's animal companion tanks for him.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[Monte Carlo]

The ghost in the machine is the design philosophy, which tries too hard to be achingly hip and different for the sake of it.

 

Let's have stats where all you get are bonuses

 

Let's have a game where you don't need healing, turning it into a strategic meta-game

 

Let's make a game where your tanks are lightly armoured acrobats

 

Let's make a game where you can't make 'a bad character.'

 

Well, at this moment in time the operation is a success. But the patient is dead.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^Yep, totally agree with Sensuki. Melee characters aren't that great in armor. Ranged nudists all the way, or at least most of your party as ranged nudists. Just send your tank in as the sacrificial lamb while your ranged nudists mop up. And don't forget to take your armor off your other melee characters like the Rogue while your Fighter is tanking.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Sensuki]

Well, at this moment in time the operation is a success. But the patient is dead.

Don't forget Attributes and Weapon balance (due to integer DT), and Inventory system too I guess.

 

I don't hate the design philosophy but atm a lot of the ideas are not working as intended. Some could be fixed with some tweaking, some might need a bit of an alteration.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[Falendor]

Now that bugyness is down to a playable level I could really get into the combat and see what's going on and I see several problems. most others have already noticed, but one in particular needs fixing: Responsiveness!!!

1) You cant cancel commands and recovery takes way to long, what gameplay purpose does recovery even serve? (other than reload times) as it stands it takes several seconds for my priest to stop attacking and start casting a spell. way way to long for the type of tactical game we are all trying to build hear.

 

2) delays in executing orders at the start of combat. something I ran into in the IE games you order your character to hobble/web a target, he walks up to range and by the time he actually starts taking the action the enemy is on top of him and your root is useless.

 

these problems basically punish you for trying to "play smart" with your ability's, every time you try to respond to the problems an encounter throws at you your ability will not go off in time, making swinging that sword harder and faster all that really matters.

Been playing on easy, know I'd rage quite if I had to deal with this in a real fight.

[Sensuki]

1) You cant cancel commands

I think this is a bug, cancel was working in v257 bb

[Falendor]

could you cancel commands by just ordering them to do something else or is there a cancel hot key?