The contribution women make towards gaming development

[Fighter]

You may see it as forcing people to hire women, or other minorities, I see it as correcting an imbalance around employment practices in the work place and corporations. I see it as a progressive and necessary social step in order to have all people of any particular country fairly represented in the business sector. You  should see this as something positive

 

When the very definition of this practice explicitly allows for a scenario where a better qualified person may be passed over because they don't have a vagina the best way I can muster to see this is as a lesser evil. Which should be understood as temporary and regularly re-evaluated in detail. Because equality it is not.

[Nonek]

Having been in charge of quite a few hirings and firings in my time I must state that I have never once considered anything other than the candidates qualifications, appearance and more importantly experience and demeanour.

 

Well that and the length and texture of their facial hair, but that's a given.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Personally I don't find this believable, at least not on average. Outside of internet crazies I have never met a business person that would just brush off an application because it is a woman.

 

But lets suppose this exists and is massively practised. What would the reasoning be? Just that "I don't like women" or is there some perception that a woman with kids will work less and is more high maintenance?

 

 

Somebody hasn't heard of subconscious bias. Somebody. I'm not telling who.

[Malcador]

Well the term doesn't come up that much in the real world.

[Blarghagh]

That's because nobody realizes they're doing it, Malc. Subconscious.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Well the term doesn't come up that much in the real world.

 

That's not because it has no relevance, but because most people aren't actively striving to understand how their brains work, and what cognitive biases should they avoid in order to think more rationally. Cognitive science isn't a field without real-world applications.

[NWN_babaYaga]

The subconscious mind is also not what you might understand fully. Because when you are aware of your subconscious mind you would not write but be in meditation. I think the cultists of feminists are way worse in their totalitarian mindset then any man in the western world can be. They see bad things everywhere and usualy thats called paranoia but now a days it´s social justice. A witch dont need all that stuff, she is fully aware of herself and can be as free as some might not see.

 

But that some people want to change culture into anarchy is nothing new. We will see what the future you create might look like.... the fruits are already in full effect. You just dont realize them

 

And knowing that i question what level of realization so called "brain experts" realy have. A meditative person aware of his ego cant be so paranoid...

Edited August 27, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[aluminiumtrioxid]

The subconscious mind is also not what you might understand fully. Because when you are aware of your subconscious mind you would not write but be in meditation. I think the cultists of feminists are way worse in their totalitarian mindset then any man in the western world can be. They see bad things everywhere and usualy thats called paranoia but now a days it´s social justice. A witch dont need all that stuff, she is fully aware of herself and can be as free as some might not see.

 

But that some people want to change culture into anarchy is nothing new. We will see what the future you create might look like.... the fruits are already in full effect. You just dont realize them

 

...Yeah, I can now clearly see that any talk about science would be wasted here.

[Malcador]

That's not because it has no relevance, but because most people aren't actively striving to understand how their brains work, and what cognitive biases should they avoid in order to think more rationally. Cognitive science isn't a field without real-world applications.

Well, didn't actually mean any of that, was more a joke on how the average person doesn't mention things like that. Pretty hard thing to counter, anyway, in this case. How exactly would a state enforce hiring of more women and at the same time not compel companies to hire subpar people ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

How exactly would a state enforce hiring of more women and at the same time not compel companies to hire subpar people ?

 

 

It absolutely would compel companies to hire subpar people, and yes, it would be unpleasant for quite some time.

 

On the other hand, when you look at things logically... the differences in intelligence between the genders are effectively negligible. That means if you strip away the effects of socialization, they both have the capacity to be equally great at... pretty much anything (STEM fields are a pet peeve of mine, obviously, but I think it applies universally). This theory is actually fairly well supported, research indicates young boys and girls have about the same affinity for math and science and disparities are probably societal products rather than effects of later brain development.

 

This means that if you look at sheer potential from birth and assume roughly the same experiences and education, you'll have about the same number of males and females who could become great scientists, mathematicians, leaders or whatever. Right now we, as a society, are throwing out around half of this potential with bull**** attitudes and socialization. We are already hiring subpar people. They perform better, yes, but that's because the system is rigged in their favor. Were you to strip that advantage away, raise them in a vacuum and expose them to the same experiences, you'd surely find women who'd do better in their place. But you can't do that. What you can do, however, is to even out the playing field, to show the next generation that yes, women do have a place in whatever field they're interested in. It's not for some lofty ideal of justice, it's to break down thousands of years of tradition that is holding everyone back.

[Nonek]

Mrs Nonek was always a little depressed at how few men there were in her chosen fields of work, dancing and then nursing, as she said that men had quite a different physical style and were on the whole very efficient and fastidious nurses. Personally i'm glad that most of the few she met were gay, as i'm an ugly chap and remain extremely lucky to have bagged her, don't think i'd have fared well against stiff competition.

 

I suppose men generally just didn't want to work in those professions, though of course I don't know the ratio now.

[Malcador]

It absolutely would compel companies to hire subpar people, and yes, it would be unpleasant for quite some time.

 

On the other hand, when you look at things logically... the differences in intelligence between the genders are effectively negligible. That means if you strip away the effects of socialization, they both have the capacity to be equally great at... pretty much anything (STEM fields are a pet peeve of mine, obviously, but I think it applies universally). This theory is actually fairly well supported, research indicates young boys and girls have about the same affinity for math and science and disparities are probably societal products rather than effects of later brain development.

 

This means that if you look at sheer potential from birth and assume roughly the same experiences and education, you'll have about the same number of males and females who could become great scientists, mathematicians, leaders or whatever. Right now we, as a society, are throwing out around half of this potential with bull**** attitudes and socialization. We are already hiring subpar people. They perform better, yes, but that's because the system is rigged in their favor. Were you to strip that advantage away, raise them in a vacuum and expose them to the same experiences, you'd surely find women who'd do better in their place. But you can't do that. What you can do, however, is to even out the playing field, to show the next generation that yes, women do have a place in whatever field they're interested in. It's not for some lofty ideal of justice, it's to break down thousands of years of tradition that is holding everyone back.

Don't believe I ever mentioned women and men being different, but when you decide to make a system inequal in The Right Way it is a fairly obvious concern. Women can succeed in STEM no doubt, the ones I've met can cut it perfectly fine, well, more or less anyway (in that they are about as useless as the male ones in a situation). How do you mean the system is rigged in the favour of men, exactly ?

 

In terms of implementing this policy, that'd be a nightmare and expensive, heh.

[Chairchucker]

Mrs Nonek was always a little depressed at how few men there were in her chosen fields of work, dancing and then nursing, as she said that men had quite a different physical style and were on the whole very efficient and fastidious nurses. Personally i'm glad that most of the few she met were gay, as i'm an ugly chap and remain extremely lucky to have bagged her, don't think i'd have fared well against stiff competition.

 

I suppose men generally just didn't want to work in those professions, though of course I don't know the ratio now.

 

Then again, one of the reasons that men might not want to work in those professions is that there is a societal stigma against men who choose to work in traditionally female jobs. 'Male nurse' is often seen as a punchline to a joke about someone's sexuality.

[Nonek]

Yes, rather unfortunate what.

[Meshugger]

Well, it is not that easy as evening the playing field:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70

[HoonDing]

Sexism. Sexism everywhere. Even in the traffic lights.

[Malcador]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

 

Tasty rage.

[Meshugger]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

 

Tasty rage.

 

I don't even understand what he is trying to say.

[Malcador]

Seems to be the usual construction of reality where anyone that disagrees with you is subhuman.

[Fighter]

I don't even understand what he is trying to say.

 

That's because it's a she.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Fighter

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

 

Tasty rage.

 

I don't even understand what he is trying to say.

 

 

 

Seems to be the usual construction of reality where anyone that disagrees with you is subhuman.

 

IMO what he is really saying is that the original target and fanbase of development companies  consisted of  a certain demographic, white males. This is now changing as the target audience becomes more inclusive and there is a resistance to this change as games evolve  to cater for this new audience

 

He makes some valid points..and I hate to say this but haven't I been saying this for ages?

[Meshugger]

I still don't get it. If you have a winning concept that everyone likes, why change it?

[BruceVC]

I still don't get it. If you have a winning concept that everyone likes, why change it?

 

Its the fanbase that is changing and therefore the product needs to adapt. Because not all the new fans will be happy with the status quo which is understandable in some cases

[Meshugger]

But how did they become fans in the first place then? It doesn't add up.

[Fighter]

Whatever point is in that article is ruined by Leigh's condescending altitude and careless generalization.