Backer beta: Developer Impressions

[Gromnir]

 

 

stuff

*groan* am trying to be patient. am not sure what you is tying to achieve with what you think is insightful but is clearly misguided quotes. you will be able to sneak and diplomacy your way past many obstacles and achieve success in may quests. the obsidians don't need tally and balance the weight o' the value o' those skills because all successfully completed quests, regardless o' your solution, will achieve equal payoff. am not certain how to make this any more simple or clear.

 

Oh I don't disagree that your quotes are misguided. In fact I'm pretty sure I was commenting on their misguided nature.

 

More to the point: with a system that rewards XP only for completing quests, you are not guaranteed that your play style will be rewarded. And example is Stealth gameplay. You weren't rewarded for it at all in this beta.

 

Another example, and one you've ignored every time it was presented to you on this thread, is the Gorge map (the wilderness map to the left of the village) Here we have a giant chunk of the beta, a sizable amount of content. But because there are no quests tied to it, there are No XP rewards given out for completing it. now I'm sure this constitutes terrific design and "proof" that a quest XP only system is teh BEST. But someone like me will tell it like it is: Crap. Spending an hour 'exploring' an entire map and the dungeon beneth it and getting NOTHING to show for it, is not ideal. I'm not a content tourist.

 

Gromnir actual has spent more than 20 hours playing PoE without getting any xp other than the meredith (sp?) fight. our quest log is broken. you is making weird assumptions that empty maps and missing quests will be the norm in the final build. if that makes you feel better, so be it. 

 

asking for maps with quests is not exactly an argument against quest xp.  that should not need be clarified, but it  seems it is.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

Gromnir actual has spent more than 20 hours playing PoE without getting any xp other than the meredith (sp?) fight. our quest log is broken. you is making weird assumptions that empty maps and missing quests will be the norm in the final build. if that makes you feel better, so be it. 

 

asking for maps with quests is not exactly an argument against quest xp.  that should not need be clarified, but it  seems it is.

 

HA! Good Fun!

In other words, you're basing your entire stance on Faith?

 

There's no missing quests in the Gorge map. We were told that there's 4 quests in the beta. All four are solved by doing the village and Dyrford crossing. None in the Gorge map.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Stun

[Marceror]

 

That said, Dragon Age Origins was also touted as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. I loved DAO (less so the second title, and I haven't even bothered with the 3rd), but in terms of looking for a spiritual successor to the I.E games, what I've seen of PoE gets us about 1,000% closer to that mark than DAO did. 

I disagree, Dragon Age: Origins feels much more like a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate than this Frankenstein of RPGs. Not to mention that it has a lot more depth.

Here's a quick comparison for why I feel the way I do. This is by no means an exhaustive list of differences; it's just something I came up with quickly. But I think it shows on a mathematical level why things weigh as they do:

 

Why does PoE feel like a successor to me?

1. Isometric style gameplay
2. Party of 6 companions that are fully under my control
3. 2D painted backgrounds
4. Large number of playable classes and races
5. Expecting to have a deep story taking place in a huge high fantasy setting (remains to be seen, but I have high hopes).
6. Expecting to have a large number of well-made, deeply fleshed out companions (remains to be seen, but I have high hopes).
7. Similar value of ability scores (e.g. 3 - 20), though very different abilities.
8. Inclusion of a player stronghold.
9. Lot's of great loot and gear to be found.

What isn't like I.E?

1. Quest only XP
2. Crafting/enchanting (though this is a plus in my book)
3. Rogue-like abilities are not unique to rogues

 

Why does DAO feel like a successor to me?

1. Deep story taking place in a high fantasy setting.
2. Large number of well made, deeply fleshed out companions.
3. Lots of great loot and gear to be found
4. Rogue-like abilities are unique to rogues

 

What isn't like I.E.?

1. Not isometric style
2. Party of only 4 companions
3. Only control one party member at a time and use customized "AI priorities" for others.
4. Fully 3D game world
5. Small number of playable classes and races
6. Large game world, but not huge like in BG.
7. Super high ability scores, and very different abilities.
8. No player stronghold (just a small camp for resting).

So if I assume equal weight for each item, the final score comes out to 6 points in favor of PoE (9 major similarity minus 3 major differences) and -4 points in favor of DAO (4 major similarities minus 8 major differences).

 

Again, I'm sure this isn't a perfect list, but I think it illustrates my thinking.

[Gromnir]

not faith. past experience. look back at any any ie game... any obsidian game. check your quest logs from a point where you is 5th level. with an entire world, rather than just a couple maps, am suspecting we is gonna be fighting to keep track o' all the quests. 

 

*chuckle*

 

a typical complaint we has in all such games is the ability or inability to ad customized map markers to keep track o' jsut where we need go next and what we hasn't complete finished. 

 

is not faith chum, is experience. am betting we finish first play through o' o' PoE and we will have a handful o' unfinished quest with absolute no idea how we missed completing. we got Zero worries that there will be insufficient quests to keep us occupied and leveling.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

not faith. past experience.

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP

 

Horrible answer, Gromnir.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Stun

[Panteleimon]

 

 

As for the ego stroking, well isn't that the point of games?

No, it isn't. At least not all games, or this game.

 

Yes it is. Ego stroking is a stated design goal of this game.

 

Mentioned by the devs in one of the updates in fact

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/317536

 

Avellone sums it up at @3:40 of the video if you don't feel like reading. And nothing he's saying is unique. People don't play games for the purpose of being put down and belittled.

 

 

 

Yeah, not the first time I've seen that video. He's speaking to the literary purpose of companion characters within the game, not the game and it's created world at large. I thought that was obvious, no? The video is called "Characterization with Chris Avellone"(as it relates to companion characters), not "Pillars of Eternity as a Whole Will Seek to Constantly Stroke Your Ego" for goodness sake. Get real.

 

Simply because the game doesn't constantly fall over itself making you feel "suppa speshul" doesn't mean it denigrates and belittles you(though hey, guess what? well written characters within the game might do that, just like they would in reality!) . It just means that it may be attempting to be more than some kind of shallow power fantasy fulfillment. Maybe, I dunno, have some intellectual or literary worth? Maybe even have the pats on the back feel believable and deserved, rather than childish and hollow?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Panteleimon

[Gromnir]

 

not faith. past experience.

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP

 

Horrible answer, Gromnir.

 

you make 0 sense. if you want us to assume obsidian incompetence to bolster your point, we won't do so. we can't think o' the last obsidian game we played where we didn't get quest experience either. if we simply voided all kill xp and had that xp awarded at the same points we were getting quest/task xp, we would not have felt diminished by the experience. we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"That said, Dragon Age Origins was also touted as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. I loved DAO (less so the second title, and I haven't even bothered with the 3rd), but in terms of looking for a spiritual successor to the I.E games, what I've seen of PoE gets us about 1,000% closer to that mark than DAO did."

 

Of coruse, there's the fact that BIO didn't ask 'gamers' to 'finance' DA.

 

Also, we were also told we weren't allowed to just PE untilll we actually got to try it out. Now, we're told that the ebat doesn't count (exceptf or the awesome parts). Then we'll be told the release won't count and w'll have to play it 7 times.

 

Good news is that PE has dwarves so it has that going for it.

 

 

Still, no answer on why it is acceptable that PE has a worse xp system than SRR.

 

 

"we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds."

 

But, you need one every ten minutes?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Volourn

[Stun]

 

 

not faith. past experience.

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP

 

Horrible answer, Gromnir.

 

you make 0 sense. if you want us to assume obsidian incompetence to bolster your point, we won't do so. we can't think o' the last obsidian game we played where we didn't get quest experience either. if we simply voided all kill xp and had that xp awarded at the same points we were getting quest/task xp, we would not have felt diminished by the experience. we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Wait a minute. Someone who doesn't want XP for kills would not see a map void of XP rewards and quest Objectives as "incompetence". Instead, they'd chalk up the POINTLESS map as "practice for the real thing". Or "downtime because we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds" Or "well hehehe, at least you get loot!" And therefore, there's no reason to assume that Obsidian WILL bother to insert a quest into the Gorge map or other maps like it in the final product. XP-less maps do not contradict the Quest-only design. Edited August 27, 2014 by Stun

[Elerond]

All non-combat skills are useful. If we add lockpicking to the game, we will make sure that there are locks to pick and worthwhile rewards for getting past them.

All non-combat skills can be used frequently. If you take disarm traps as a skill, you should expect more than two traps in the entire game world. Frequency of application has a large impact on how useful something is.

Combat can be avoided with non-combat skills. There will often be ways to avoid fighting. Yes, we will have the standard methods of talking your way out of a fight or sneaking around an encounter, but there will be other ways too. Perhaps you can re-sanctify a desecrated cemetery to prevent any further undead from rising, or maybe figuring out a way across a ruined bridge will always avoid the bandits on this side of the river.

Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/314089

 

rjshae asks...

Back in the BG series, experience growth was relatively slow and it felt like an accomplishment to reach a new level. Since then, D&D v3.5 rules came out and level up began to feel almost like a cheesy accomplishment that didn't require much effort. That has become the trend in modern games: leveling up after every few battles. I have to wonder how this will be handled in PE? It sounds like Obsidian wants to return to the style of the BG series, which would seems to entail a return to slower level progress. If they do allow a more rapid level up, I hope they tone down the power growth rate so that lower level monsters remain a challenge for longer periods.

We are working hard to make Project Eternity revive the spirit of the older IE games, and this includes making leveling up an important accomplishment, one that makes your character feel substantially more powerful afterward. I agree that frequent level-ups make the event feel less special, so we plan to space out these events over the course of our storyline. The first few level-ups will occur relatively early in the game, but the pacing of the subsequent level-ups will be much slower.

For people who enjoy level-ups, they are free to use our Adventurer's Hall to swap out new companions frequently, so they are always leveling up new characters to use in later parts of the story. For people who aren't sure what character classes they will want to have available in the end game, it's always nice to have the choice of having all of them.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/327839

 

This is what Obsidian promised for backers about experience system and non-combat skills during Kickstarter campaign. And which they need to take into account when they design or alter their design for those.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

not faith. past experience.

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP

 

Horrible answer, Gromnir.

 

you make 0 sense. if you want us to assume obsidian incompetence to bolster your point, we won't do so. we can't think o' the last obsidian game we played where we didn't get quest experience either. if we simply voided all kill xp and had that xp awarded at the same points we were getting quest/task xp, we would not have felt diminished by the experience. we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Wait a minute. Someone who doesn't want XP for kills would not see a map void of XP rewards and quest Objectives as "incompetence". Instead, they'd chalk up the POINTLESS map as "practice for the real thing". Or "downtime because we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds" Or "well hehehe, at least you get loot!" And therefore, there's no reason to assume that Obsidian WILL bother to insert a quest into the Gorge map or other maps like it in the final product. XP-less maps do not contradict the Quest-only design.

 

what are you talking about? is a beta? am expecting many quests ain't complete or available. we have never played an obsidian game with a shortage o' quests, so we don't expect a shortage in PoE. simple need wait quest award for experience boost rather than little gold stars for killing bugs? gosh, how can we possible wait a few minutes to end up getting a lump o' xp rather than little bitty kill increments.

 

and if there is no quests on a map in a final build, yeah, that would be incompetent o' obsidian. have dozens or hundreds o' xp dropping killable mobs on such a map would not make the game better. you are not making the point you seem to think you is.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Elerond: Thanks for digging that info up!

[Gromnir]

Elerond: Thanks for digging that info up!

"All non-combat skills are useful." 

 

which won't mean that each use o' a non-combat skill should award xp.

 

"Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count."

 

and sadly, this information won't satisfy the grognards who demand kill xp.

 

am glad elerond posted, but some/many will continue to claim that the current approach is wrong, regardless o' what were promised.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count."

 

But, the system doesn't do that yet. You aren't rewarded properly period.

[Mayama]

"We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count."

 

But, the system doesn't do that yet. You aren't rewarded properly period.

Uhm what? You dont get xp for kills = the number of killed enemies do not influence your reward

[Stun]

You're missing his point. Volourn is clearly pointing out that the game isn't rewarding you XP for your accomplishments. And that is correct. I can show you several non-combat accomplishments you can make in this Beta at least that go completely unrewarded. I can also show you current developer confirmation that only QUESTS will be rewarding you XP.

 

Of course, that passage is from one of Tim Cain's updates. Those can actually be taken with a grain of salt. a LOT of the stuff he said has since been eliminated, changed, rendered too expensive to implement etc.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Stun

[IndiraLightfoot]

More comments on xp and rewards by Feargus and Josh:

 

Feargus: @Cantousent Personally, I like to give XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them. IMHO. Kickstarter, Sep 25, 2012

My comment: Like George Ziets, Feargus prefers a combat xp-based system.

 

inertiax asks:

Could we get clarification on the exp system you guys are thinking about? It implies you won’t give experience for kills how does this work with things like the mega dungeon?

Josh: We plan to grant XP for exploration-based quests and objectives, so if there's something like the mega-dungeon that's focused on moving from level to level toward a goal, we will award portions of XP for achieving those goals. Most players will likely use combat to get to that point, but that doesn't need to be the only solution." 30h left of the KS, Oct, 2012. Reddit.

Comment: Here we see objectives and "portions of xp" being used. Feargus' vision is no longer afloat.

 

Josh's view on xp systems and rewards:

"I used to be a big fan of "learn by doing", but in practice I think it really works best in tabletop games where the GM can adjudicate exactly what's going on.  Now I favor systems where an abstracted earned currency is used to advance the character's stats -- in other words, typical XP systems, whether level-based or not.  However, I am strongly against awarding experience points for "ways and means".  I.e. killing monsters, picking locks, scribing scrolls, etc.  Not only is it extraordinarily hard to balance for designers and QA staff, but it inevitably leads to nasty metagaming that, in my opinion, runs counter to some of the guiding principles of many RPGs.  Unless combat is the sole focus of the game, we need to keep the player's focus on achieving a goal in whatever manner he or she sees fit.  The accomplishment of the goal, not the method itself, should net the main reward.  The reward for "ways and means" is usually self-contained.  E.g. monsters drop monster bits, opening locked rooms gives access to otherwise unavailable equipment. [...] And really, the biggest reward has already been granted to the player: you allowed him or her to play the game in the manner he or she wanted.  There's an idea I don't subscribe to -- that players need to be given tiny rewards for everything they do.  If your gameplay is actually fun, you shouldn't need to bribe them!  When gameplay simply becomes drudgery motivated by a desire to gain a bonus that makes the gameplay easier, I feel that we have failed as designers. People wind up effectively “grinding skills” instead of just playing the game.  I’d like to keep people focused on accomplishing things in the setting instead of meta-gaming stats in the world.  I don’t have anything against people powergaming or min-maxing, I just want to keep that sort of activity out of the game world, if that makes sense.  When it’s time to advance your character or equip gear, go bonkers.  But flailing away with a crappy weapon skill or jumping up and down in place just to advance a skill – frankly it just seems like degenerate gaming to me. The character systems that have most influenced me are the ones in Darklands, Fallout, Mass Effect, and Oblivion."  Designing Character Systems, interview, irontowerstudio.

My comment: Josh has decided that such reward systems, common to all IE games, are degenerate and not fun, and thus not rewarding. The game itself should be the reward. Combat itself should make you want to reach next encounter, and the next melee, otherwise, he hasn't done his job. Three problems: 1) That's highly subjective. Plenty of players find those systems rewarding, necessary, and even immersive and RPG-y, for being computer games. 2) "Ways and means" are all there is in a computer game, I'm afraid. Without rewarding them, you have made yourself a theme-park ride in-between quest givers (ticket salesmen), not with Bioschock AAA-graphics, but with sights looking like an IE-inspired game. 3) Why then design a game so heavily around combat and ways-and-means-skills? Why not go all the way, and make PoE like T:ToN or Planescape: Torment (which would be awesome, but it's not what most people would expect).
 

 

Josh: "I'm happy with the number of wilderness areas we have. I think there will be good content density in them and there are enough of them off the critical path that players will feel rewarded for exploring." Interview by Sensuki, rpgcodex. Late July, 2014.

My comment: Once again, this implies that side quests are regarded as rewards in themselves.
 

Edited August 27, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Gromnir]

and so it begins. the sad attempts to distinguish, minimize and otherwise ignore.

 

but again, is not a surprise. we knew from start that quest and task xp would be the mechanic employed to dispense xp awards in PoE.  the sudden and irrational shock that quest and task xp is the method actual being employed (admittedly with severe bugs hindering its efficacy) is amusing but hardly unexpected. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Mayama]

You're missing his point. Volourn is clearly pointing out that the game isn't rewarding you XP for your accomplishments. And that is correct. I can show you several non-combat accomplishments you can make in this Beta at least that go completely unrewarded. I can also show you current developer confirmation that only QUESTS will be rewarding you XP.

 

Of course, that passage is from one of Tim Cain's updates. Those can actually be taken with a grain of salt. a LOT of the stuff he said has since been eliminated, changed, rendered too expensive to implement etc.

 

It rewards your accomplishments because all those activites, killing monsters, lockpicking locks, and so forth are done so you can solve a quest. The only way to win this or any similar game is by solving quests.

[PrimeJunta]

What do you guys consider 'accomplishment?'

 

On a bit of a tangent, this whole debate reminds me of one of my pet peeves at work. There are two types of people: process-oriented and goal-oriented. Process-oriented people think that activities should be rewarded; goal-oriented people think that accomplishing things should be rewarded.

 

I can't, in general, stand to work with process-oriented people. They're the ones who are concerned that you clock in at the right hours, make sure that everything is properly written down, call endless meetings to properly assign responsibilities, and so on. Goal-oriented people are concerned about what needs to be done in order to get that thing we're working on finished and out the door, what it has to be like, and so on. Of course some process and, in teamwork, a great deal of discipline is needed to actually do that, but I find it extremely important that goals go first, adherence to process second.

 

I think this is behind my dislike of systemic XP. It's process-oriented, the game equivalent of making sure the T-45 form is properly filled and the hours are properly clocked. It rewards activity rather than directed activity. In a game which has goals other than "retrieve the amulet of Yendor from somewhere below level 20 of the dungeon" this just feels wrong. I.e. systemic XP only really works for me if the activity is the goal.

 

This also reveals that I think of XP as primarily an incentive system, not, say, a 'simulation of learning things.'

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

I can't, in general, stand to work with process-oriented people. They're the ones who are concerned that you clock in at the right hours, make sure that everything is properly written down, call endless meetings to properly assign responsibilities, and so on. Goal-oriented people are concerned about what needs to be done in order to get that thing we're working on finished and out the door, what it has to be like, and so on. Of course some process and, in teamwork, a great deal of discipline is needed to actually do that, but I find it extremely important that goals go first, adherence to process second.

 

 

I'm happy to report that I am a goal-oriented person through and through. I have a hard time working with too process-oriented folks as well.

[Ink Blot]

What do you guys consider 'accomplishment?'

 

On a bit of a tangent, this whole debate reminds me of one of my pet peeves at work. There are two types of people: process-oriented and goal-oriented. Process-oriented people think that activities should be rewarded; goal-oriented people think that accomplishing things should be rewarded.

 

I can't, in general, stand to work with process-oriented people. They're the ones who are concerned that you clock in at the right hours, make sure that everything is properly written down, call endless meetings to properly assign responsibilities, and so on. Goal-oriented people are concerned about what needs to be done in order to get that thing we're working on finished and out the door, what it has to be like, and so on. Of course some process and, in teamwork, a great deal of discipline is needed to actually do that, but I find it extremely important that goals go first, adherence to process second.

 

I think this is behind my dislike of systemic XP. It's process-oriented, the game equivalent of making sure the T-45 form is properly filled and the hours are properly clocked. It rewards activity rather than directed activity. In a game which has goals other than "retrieve the amulet of Yendor from somewhere below level 20 of the dungeon" this just feels wrong. I.e. systemic XP only really works for me if the activity is the goal.

 

This also reveals that I think of XP as primarily an incentive system, not, say, a 'simulation of learning things.'

My only beef with this in regards to PoE is it seems Obs is saying "We're rewarding you for goals, and when you accomlish them, we'll pay you", which is great. But when you look at it they're paying you with pens and pads of paper to write things down properly, a watch so you can show up on time, a punch clock to keep track of your hours, and a daytimer to plan your meetings.

 

All the things you get from leveling only do one thing: make you better at combat. Why not throw in a shedload of talents/spells/abilities that allow you to build a character that can more  easily avoid combat if the goal of quest completion is all that's important? Why gear all these things toward combat if, in the end, they want you to be able to 'play it however you want'? Well, i want to be able to play it in a manner where I don't have to fight much. But they're giving me nothing to build my character towards that end.

[Mayama]

 

 

 

I can't, in general, stand to work with process-oriented people. They're the ones who are concerned that you clock in at the right hours, make sure that everything is properly written down, call endless meetings to properly assign responsibilities, and so on. Goal-oriented people are concerned about what needs to be done in order to get that thing we're working on finished and out the door, what it has to be like, and so on. Of course some process and, in teamwork, a great deal of discipline is needed to actually do that, but I find it extremely important that goals go first, adherence to process second.

 

 

I'm happy to report that I am a goal-oriented person through and through. I have a hard time working with too process-oriented folks as well.

 

Well yes thats basicaly the difference, when I was younger I liked to grind in RPG'S way more than now. It was nice to feal the increase of power it gave you and it brought you a little bit closer to the perfect build. Nowadays I honestly do not care because I realized that it does not change anything. Grinding through millions of monsters to get a level wont change the story, wont really change my experience and only delays the interesting parts of the game. Theirs nothing more frustraiting than beeing locked behind a grind gate bevor you can experience now content. Its the reason why people rush through all content bevor end level in all mmorpgs ever created.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Mayama

[IndiraLightfoot]

Mayama: Perhaps I'm an oddball being pretty old and all, but I like it all!

-Grinding for weeks for items through mind-numbing battles in Diablo. (Fast food gourmand)

-Perfecting an IE game party combat wise, going through exciting battles meticulously (slow food gourmet)

-Playing IE/NWN-games with one character with fantastically written companions, and taking combat slightly more lightly.

-Story, story, story - nothing else. Point n-click games

-Deep story and lots of choices, and experiencing things in the game that actually affects me emotionally, philosophically, etc (a bit PST, my hopes for T:ToN)

 

I cannot understand why it's so hard to have all these gaming urges in you.

The good thing is: I have plenty of games to choose from.

Edited August 27, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Mayama]

Mayama: Perhaps I'm an oddball being pretty old and all, but I like it all!

-Grinding for weeks for items through mind-numbing battles in Diablo. (Fast food gourmand)

-Perfecting an IE game party combat wise, going through exciting battles meticulously (slow food gourmet)

-Playing IE/NWN-games with one character with fantastically written companions, and taking combat slightly more lightly.

-Story, story, story - nothing else. Point n-click games

-Deep story and lots of choices, and experiencing things in the game that actually affects me emotionally, philosophically, etc (a bit PST, my hopes for T:ToN)

 

I cannot understand why it's so hard to have all these gaming urges in you.

The good thing is: I have plenty of games to choose from.

Honestly I think they should have gone full middle finger mode like tides of numenera and switched to turn based combat.