Toggling XP Systems - For a Peaceful Co-Existence!

[Gromnir]

 

I've been donated a beta by a very generous forumite, but I haven;t as of yet played the beta. But from what I've read so far, the problem seems to be that objective based xp is not staggered properly. You get XP only at the end of a quest, not during significant progression within these tasks. Perhaps if the same XP was broken up and given in smaller increments throughout the quests, players would notice more feedback during the questing.

 

Im not sure that we have a clear picture of how it works yet. I believe PrimeJunta has posted receiving 1500XP upon entering the Ogre cave but in my buggy experience, I never earned a single XP point (that I noticed) and couldn't even turn in the quests. Im hoping beta v2 is more stable so I can get a better picture of what the hell is actually going on.

 

yes, am suspecting that the beta is giving a less than clear picture of how game actually plays. we noted in the rose & jorge video, they had a build number a bit higher than ours, and no doubt the QA folks ain't just getting a small piece o' the game to test.  am aware that there is more than a few nightmare scenarios that quest xp will discourage combat play or... well, am not genuine clear on what the negatives o' quest xp is other than the absence o' satisfaction o' reward immediacy, but regardless, we got no idea how quest xp is actual affecting gameplay o' PoE QA and other observable testers. 

 

before deciding on appropriate solutions, one might wanna check and see if there is an actual problem that needs fixing. we saw the disgruntled described as "thousands." we even saw a hypothetical "15,000" provided as a kinda plausible number o' folks angered by quest xp.

 

...

 

does QA behavior bear out such notions o' disgruntled players? has folks actual been observed to alter their behavior? how does one guestimate not only the number o' disgruntled, but the number o' folks that would be bothered enough for the issue to be at all relevant to purchase o' subsequent PoE titles?

 

am aware that many people is angered by the idea o' quest/task xp, but has anybody attempted to get feedback regarding how QA has evaluated quest/task xp? what % o' players has altered behavior away from combat, if any? dunno, seems like we have very little to base conclusions 'pon given the relevant feedback we has seen posted thus far.

 

regardless, a per kill xp system sounds like a wonderful idea for a player mod. past experience suggests that a removal o' the experience cap will be developed by the community with some considerable alacrity. if a per-kill system is genuine easy to develop, then why not leave such a thing to the community? if balance is Not a concern, then the community modders is likely the best resource for making such a change as the community modders won't have the feedback to do detailed balancing anyway. 

 

at this point, am thinking questions o' the right people should be asked first before declaring that the community needs or even wants this. in the event there is a need as expressed by significant number o' people with meaningful experience playing the game, the modding community would strike us as the most reasonable creator o' such a fix.  after all, am expecting that with obsidian seeming committed to a 2014 release, getting all current planned features into the game, and making sure the game itself is stable enough to avoid a nerd rebellion, will be a herculean task in and of itself.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

edit... obsidian is committed to 2014 release, not 2015. sheesh.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Gromnir

[ManifestedISO]

Huh, no response. I guess even bros can be tased by erudition once in a while. 

[Lephys]

@Nonek:

 

The lore tie-in is a pretty good idea. Still, I'd say, if that were the case, then XP rewards for consecutive kills on the same foe (type, not the exact same individual) should progressively diminish.

 

Basically, by the time you've killed your 10th Goblin, you shouldn't be gaining significant amounts of XP from a Goblin. Thus, it's not as if the game was all "THERE'S NEVER any point in overcoming the combat challenge that is GOBLIN!", BUT, it doesn't just say "Hey, if there happen to be a thousand Goblins around, you can just hunt them all down and gain a whole level or two, JUST from doing that, even if there was no other reason to kill most of them anyway!"

 

Plus, with the lore aspect, that's still a whole extra reward from continuing to face down goblins, even when you didn't have to. *shrug*

[Nonek]

Oh I do apologise if I was not specific enough, but I was advocating no kill xp at all, just an xp reward when one has completed a quest to gain full knowledge of the type of creatures one is fighting. So all one would get from killing such creatures is an increasing number on a counter, so one feels that they are progressing.

[Zansatsu]

Oh I do apologise if I was not specific enough, but I was advocating no kill xp at all, just an xp reward when one has completed a quest to gain full knowledge of the type of creatures one is fighting. So all one would get from killing such creatures is an increasing number on a counter, so one feels that they are progressing.

I totally agree and have suggest the same elsewhere. You were clear don't worry. It is a great idea IMO.

[teknoman2]

my thought on this, is that a per kill xp system does not work with the concept of the game and it was a good decision to remove it.

in a hack n slash type of game, per kill xp serves a function as the point of the game is to kill stuff, and in certain cases the game even rewards you for killing in a spectacular or gruesome way or for how fast and how many you killed and so on.

in a game that is based on choices and how they affect the the protagonist, his friends, enemies and even the world itself, having per kill xp will create a mechanical dilema for the players that is outside the scope of the game, as killing certain characters will provide extra xp compared to making another choice, making it a no brainer for most

to make an example.

you hunt a criminal for his bounty. once you have him cornered, you get 3 choices

1. kill him and take something of his a proof

2. capture him alive and take him to jail

3. accept his offer to give you the proof you need to colect the bounty and let him go

each option would give you 500xp. if per kill xp was on and killing him gave an aditional 500xp, then why would anyone choose anything besides 1? or if 1 gave the 500xp for the kill and  no quest xp, you would choose 3 and kill him after the conversation had ended. at least 80% of the players would do that. by not having per kill xp, you can make your choice based on who your character is and not on how much xp you gain or lose by it

 

EDIT

another solution that would satisfy the "per kill xp junkies", would be to completely remove all enemies outside dungeons or quest related areas and have the quest xp divided among the enemies as kill xp. so if you have 10 enemies in a dungeon and the quest you do is worth 1200xp, you get 100xp for each enemy killed and a 200 xp quest reward once it is over

Edited September 3, 2014 by teknoman2

[Lephys]

Oh I do apologise if I was not specific enough, but I was advocating no kill xp at all, just an xp reward when one has completed a quest to gain full knowledge of the type of creatures one is fighting. So all one would get from killing such creatures is an increasing number on a counter, so one feels that they are progressing.

Ohhhh, sorry about that. Well, that works too. I guess just... if kill XP went in at all, for whatever reason, alongside anything else, I'd want it to work like that (diminishing returns). I just thought that having additional motivations/rewards for killing the things (such as a lore-based goal/reward) might well to prevent a motivation void from occurring for the act of combat with any given foe.

[Pray]

Have enemy types give Exp for the first kill, half for the second, half of half for the 3rd, half of that half, so forth and so on. New enemies are considered "experience generating," but less memorable and less impactfull as time goes on.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Have enemy types give Exp for the first kill, half for the second, half of half for the 3rd, half of that half, so forth and so on. New enemies are considered "experience generating," but less memorable and less impactfull as time goes on.

This idea seems pretty interesting. I like it. One drawback, though, some "munchkins" would then just go hunting for new and exotic baddies all the time, to level up faster. Mind you, I have no problem with that at all. It would certainly reward exploration, and doing so, will mean taking bigger risks, surely you'll get in a world of trouble for doing it. Sounds fun!

[Immortalis]

 

Have enemy types give Exp for the first kill, half for the second, half of half for the 3rd, half of that half, so forth and so on. New enemies are considered "experience generating," but less memorable and less impactfull as time goes on.

This idea seems pretty interesting. I like it. One drawback, though, some "munchkins" would then just go hunting for new and exotic baddies all the time, to level up faster. Mind you, I have no problem with that at all. It would certainly reward exploration, and doing so, will mean taking bigger risks, surely you'll get in a world of trouble for doing it. Sounds fun!

 

 

Sounds more fun to just give small incremental xp for exploring to reward as far as you can get.. then maybe having some strong creatures that you have to come back for because they are too strong award the big boy xp.

 

To be clear.. generalized xp per encounter instead of per chopped head is acceptable.. I don't need to see the individual numbers or anything.. and that encounter xp could be removed if you took the dialogue or stealth path in certain situations.

 

I just want a tangible incentive to explore certain areas.. risk vs reward... award me for doing something.. help me justify using consumables and spending time fighting beetles other then.. HURR HURR FIREBALL MAKE BUGS DIE

[rjshae]

A loose thought rattling around in my noggin':

 

Keep the system as it is now, but have the game track a hidden 'Battlefield Experience' counter separately from XP. At certain points your characters achieve Battlefield Experience accomplishments (Ex.: Tyro, Skirmisher, Warrior, Battle Hardened, War Hero, ...), and these serve as prerequisites to an otherwise restricted set of Talents. An example talent would be a Favored Enemy.

[Immortalis]

A loose thought rattling around in my noggin':

 

Keep the system as it is now, but have the game track a hidden 'Battlefield Experience' counter separately from XP. At certain points your characters achieve Battlefield Experience accomplishments (Ex.: Tyro, Skirmisher, Warrior, Battle Hardened, War Hero, ...), and these serve as prerequisites to an otherwise restricted set of Talents. An example talent would be a Favored Enemy.

 

This sounds like more work because now they need a new talent tree and it will probably just piss everyone off because it doesn't solve either sides issues with combat rewards.