More like BG2 please

[Mrakvampire]

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

Doesn't sound to me like they're failing to live up to any promises. They promised to deliver on what made those games fun, not on exact copies of them or their mechanics. If they had promised to make Baldur's Gate 3 I never would have pledged.

 

 

Ok, let us make a simple check.

1. Will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate

No romance confirmed. Exploration with no XP for battles. And developers already stated that "there are too many quests in BG". LOLWUT?

 

2. Intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale

Combat right now has nothing in common with Icewind Dale combat, that was 99% similar to BG2 combat.

 

3. Bla-bla-bla Planescape: Torment

We can't check it right now.

[Namutree]

 

No romance confirmed. 

 

They didn't promise anything like romance. Wasn't BG2 the only IE game with romance? Romance certainly isn't needed ingredient to making an IE successor considering only one of five even had them.

[Cabamacadaf]

Planescape: Torment had romance too.

[Namutree]

Planescape: Torment had romance too.

Oh? I don't remember any, but my memory of that game is poor. I played many years ago and wasn't all that into it; mechanically speaking it's definitely the weakest IE title, but I think the story was good.

[Answermancer]

And developers already stated that "there are too many quests in BG". LOLWUT?

 

Nobody said there were too many quests in BG.

 

Josh has said that he thought the quest density in BG2 was too high. In other words that Athkatla had too many "quests-per-square-inch" if you will, where every other NPC had a quest for you. You can agree or disagree but that's mostly preference.

 

They have said that they want to have a similar amount of quests but more spread out.

[Mrakvampire]

 

 

No romance confirmed. 

 

They didn't promise anything like romance. Wasn't BG2 the only IE game with romance? Romance certainly isn't needed ingredient to making an IE successor considering only one of five even had them.

 

 

Of all IE games that actually had NPC companions (Icewind Dale 1 or 2 had no companions at all, you created whole party) only 1 game doesn't have a romance - Baldur's Gate 1. And it's only because that this game was first among IE games and hadn't featured deep companion interactions at all.

[Mayama]

Some people really need to google what spiritual successor actually means.

[Namutree]

Some people really need to google what spiritual successor actually means.

Like who?

[Answermancer]

Of all IE games that actually had NPC companions (Icewind Dale 1 or 2 had no companions at all, you created whole party) only 1 game doesn't have a romance - Baldur's Gate 1. And it's only because that this game was first among IE games and hadn't featured deep companion interactions at all.

 

So... you're saying 2 out of 5 had romances?

 

And I would hardly call anything in PST a traditional romance... so 1 out 5 unless you really want to argue for PST.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Answermancer

[Ineth]

Well, I soloed both BG1, BG2 and ToB with a Sorcerer so I would not say that. I would not have a chance to finish it with a Fighter.

 

Every class can be soloed in BG2, but none of them without resorting to cheese tactics.

 

The game simply wasn't designed for it; it was designed for a well-rounded party that includes warriors, rogues, arcane spellcasters, and divide spellcasters.

The usefulness/power of each class in BG2 should be measured by how much it contributed to the success of such a party. And warriors contributed a lot.

[Ondb]

I love the mage battles in BG2 and waited 15 year to play similar game. (including the combat system).

Now it looks that the combat is different.

 

At this point i just hope that the PoE combat can be modded. 

[Mayama]

I love the mage battles in BG2 and waited 15 year to play similar game. (including the combat system).

Now it looks that the combat is different.

 

At this point i just hope that the PoE combat can be modded. 

 

I dont really think that spamming fireballs/clouds of whatever off screen was interesting or challenging.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Mayama

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

I love the mage battles in BG2 and waited 15 year to play similar game. (including the combat system).

Now it looks that the combat is different.

 

At this point i just hope that the PoE combat can be modded. 

 

I dont really think that spamming fireballs/clouds of whatever off screen was interesting or challenging.

 

*Ahem*

Some of us played those games for years without resorting to unrewarding exploits.

 

Ondb: Yes. Those battles were wonderful and addictive. The replayability value was huge, very much thanks to the interesting and varied combat (if you allowed yourself to experiment with all the possible solutions - well, sometimes, there were obvious hard-counters, but still...). 

[Namutree]

 

Of all IE games that actually had NPC companions (Icewind Dale 1 or 2 had no companions at all, you created whole party) only 1 game doesn't have a romance - Baldur's Gate 1. And it's only because that this game was first among IE games and hadn't featured deep companion interactions at all.

 

So... you're saying 2 out of 5 had romances?

 

And I would hardly call anything in PST a traditional romance... so 1 out 5 unless you really want to argue for PST.

 

Lets stop poking that hornet nest.

[Namutree]

 

I love the mage battles in BG2 and waited 15 year to play similar game. (including the combat system).

Now it looks that the combat is different.

 

At this point i just hope that the PoE combat can be modded. 

 

I dont really think that spamming fireballs/clouds of whatever off screen was interesting or challenging.

 

That wasn't what the mage battles were like.

[Kharador]

This thread makes me sick. Don't know why people with nostalgia can't buy old IE games in GOG and stops this.

The game needs a different style. Something new (with old style), but new.

I think people make a huge mistake trying to see this as BG3...

Edited August 21, 2014 by Kharador

[Mayama]

 

 

I love the mage battles in BG2 and waited 15 year to play similar game. (including the combat system).

Now it looks that the combat is different.

 

At this point i just hope that the PoE combat can be modded. 

 

I dont really think that spamming fireballs/clouds of whatever off screen was interesting or challenging.

 

That wasn't what the mage battles were like.

 

 

Of course they were like that, you closed the distance to the enemy wizard. When he started to cast his defensive spells you ran away, waited the spells out till he was defenseless and spammed him to death. 

[Giubba]

This topic makes me sick. Don't know why people with nostalgia can't buy old IE games in GOG and stops this.

The game needs a different style. Something new (with old style), but new.

I think people make a huge mistake trying to see this as BG3...

 

Because pillars of eternity should have been an old IE game in the 2014?

 

Because if go to the kickstarter page i find this

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

 

 

So what the **** i should expect ?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Kharador: I can see what you mean. It should be a CRPG worthy of 2014, with some new and exciting stuff, on top of good things that really worked. It should rest on the shoulders of titans, if you will. Also, it should definitely not be a BG3, and as much as I love D&D, it should definitely not be a new D&D CRPG. I'm actually very happy about all the good and promising things we're seeing already in PoE. However, combat, xp and pathfinding aren't up to snuff yet. Far from it. Personally, I reckon they should lend heavily from the CRPG giants of yore - and just steal everything that worked great. Every poet is a thief, so why not game devs as well, devs that actually worked on those brilliant games?

[Mayama]

 

This topic makes me sick. Don't know why people with nostalgia can't buy old IE games in GOG and stops this.

The game needs a different style. Something new (with old style), but new.

I think people make a huge mistake trying to see this as BG3...

 

Because pillars of eternity should have been an old IE game in the 2014?

 

Because if go to the kickstarter page i find this

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

 

 

So what the **** i should expect ?

 

Where exactly did it read "its baldurs gate 3" or "its a copy of baldurs gate with new tech"? It only says that they are heavily inspired by those games.

[Giubba]

 

 

This topic makes me sick. Don't know why people with nostalgia can't buy old IE games in GOG and stops this.

The game needs a different style. Something new (with old style), but new.

I think people make a huge mistake trying to see this as BG3...

 

Because pillars of eternity should have been an old IE game in the 2014?

 

Because if go to the kickstarter page i find this

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

 

 

So what the **** i should expect ?

 

Where exactly did it read "its baldurs gate 3" or "its a copy of baldurs gate with new tech"? It only says that they are heavily inspired by those games.

 

 

Point is that this game is not heavily inspired by this game (and here is the parte that really really piss the ****ing hell out of me and i've just discovered it) because the guy in charge of the game mechanincs ****ing despises the game that they had put in the god damnit front page of their kickstarter page

Edited August 21, 2014 by Giubba

[Kharador]

 

 

This topic makes me sick. Don't know why people with nostalgia can't buy old IE games in GOG and stops this.

The game needs a different style. Something new (with old style), but new.

I think people make a huge mistake trying to see this as BG3...

 

Because pillars of eternity should have been an old IE game in the 2014?

 

Because if go to the kickstarter page i find this

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

 

 

So what the **** i should expect ?

 

Where exactly did it read "its baldurs gate 3" or "its a copy of baldurs gate with new tech"? It only says that they are heavily inspired by those games.

 

 

Some people can't tell you the difference between being and seeming...

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

 

 

 

I dont really think that spamming fireballs/clouds of whatever off screen was interesting or challenging.

 

That wasn't what the mage battles were like.

 

 

Of course they were like that, you closed the distance to the enemy wizard. When he started to cast his defensive spells you ran away, waited the spells out till he was defenseless and spammed him to death. 

 

Your two statements don't go together, rationally. Either you stood off screen and spammed stuff and exploited that system weakness or you closed the gap - not both.

And there are heaps of ways to dispose of a defensive wizard like that. Heck, you could even raise your own barriers, and let him do his thing, while you took care of other enemies.

[Kiel29]

I do think there needs to be some evolution in the system, and that seems to be(?) what is grating against some of the people in this discussion. The proponents for the PoE combat are a little too harsh on the IE system, but it is an old system.

 

To compare, Diablo 1 and D3 play very very differently, and about the same amount of time has passed(1996-2012, 1998-2014). The problem is that the genre of isometric party-based cRPG has not seen any gradual change. It has seen almost no games in the intervening years, where Diablo had a slower change.

 

This sudden change, an all-in-one update to the IE style gameplay is rough, but the other option is playing on a system that feels like it is 20 years old.

 

The IE games, their mechanics specifically, are still good, for all their, uh, quirks. But to propose a game that still plays the same way and is in no way trying to be something not the Forgotten Realms is just stale, to a lot of people.

 

 

Edit: as for the developer hating the games, I think that is a bit too harsh. Having watched all Sawyer's videos and blogs on the topic, it is more accurate to say he feels closer to what I said in this post: They're nice, but it is time to update the genre.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Kiel29

[Mrakvampire]

Where exactly did it read "its baldurs gate 3" or "its a copy of baldurs gate with new tech"? It only says that they are heavily inspired by those games.

 

I don't feel any similarity to old IE games right now beyond usage of 2D graphics. Combat feels (and is, actually) different, there will be no companion romance (and you call it deep companion interaction?), inventory system is console-like, rpg system basically states that most powerfull wizards in game should look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc.