No experience from combat

[Panteleimon]

There were a TON of quests you could only find in BG by wandering the countryside. The same is true for PoE.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Panteleimon

[PrimeJunta]

We were promised the epic exploration of BG. Can any one please tell me how such a thing is even possible when the primary benefit of exploring is simply gone.

 

Uh... put something worth finding in the maps you're exploring? And then add an XP reward for finding it?

 

Hidden mini-dungeons with treasure, a corpse clutching a note that starts a quest, a coven of witches that starts another one, a tribe of xaurips protecting a dragon with more quests and treasure... that sort of thing. 

 

It's not like the wilderness maps in BG1 were empty or anything. There was always something cool there. How much would it change things if you got an XP reward for finding the xvart village, rather than for slaughtering the poor xvarts and their friend, Mr. Bear?

[Tartantyco]

Leveling is at the heart of any rpg; this is not some minor issue.

 

 

And this, in no way, affects your ability to level.

 

I simply cannot level without doing quests. This fact is game breaking.

 

 

Hyperbole much?

 

ALL the IE games let you gain xp without doing quests. This game was pitched as a spiritual successor; not just some RPG Obsidian felt like making.

 

 

A spiritual successor, not a carbon copy. I have already explained to you how it is aesthetically and mechanically the same as the IE games. You are still just defining the IE experience extremely narrowly.

 

We were promised the epic exploration of BG. Can any one please tell me how such a thing is even possible when the primary benefit of exploring is simply gone.

 

 

The primary benefit according to you.

 

The point, Namutree, is that now you explore to explore. Now you fight to fight. There is absolutely no reason why you should be rewarded for going out of your way to kill a pack of wolves.

[Namutree]

 

Leveling is at the heart of any rpg; this is not some minor issue.

 

 

And this, in no way, affects your ability to level.

 

I simply cannot level without doing quests. This fact is game breaking.

 

 

Hyperbole much?

 

ALL the IE games let you gain xp without doing quests. This game was pitched as a spiritual successor; not just some RPG Obsidian felt like making.

 

 

A spiritual successor, not a carbon copy. I have already explained to you how it is aesthetically and mechanically the same as the IE games. You are still just defining the IE experience extremely narrowly.

 

We were promised the epic exploration of BG. Can any one please tell me how such a thing is even possible when the primary benefit of exploring is simply gone.

 

 

The primary benefit according to you.

 

The point, Namutree, is that now you explore to explore. Now you fight to fight. There is absolutely no reason why you should be rewarded for going out of your way to kill a pack of wolves.

 

The main point is that exploration helped you level; that is important in a game about leveling. I don't care about getting xp for killing wolves; I just want to get xp from exploring. If they give me xp for finding dungeons or what not (A product of exploration) that would be fine too. It is nonsense to suggest the fact that one could use exploring to gain levels isn't at least a major element of BG's exploration.

 

BTW: Keeping the exploration from BG wouldn't make poe even close to a "carbon copy" as you fallaciously suggest.

[Msxyz]

The point, Namutree, is that now you explore to explore. Now you fight to fight. There is absolutely no reason why you should be rewarded for going out of your way to kill a pack of wolves.

so, according to your reasoning, what makes questing so different to have it rewarded with XP while the other activities don't?

 

10 years ago these days, I rember installing the first Far Cry and since I was totally blown away by the graphics, I spent hours doing nothing but exploring the lush environments, avoiding fights whenever possible and I engaged in all of this just for the sake of it.

 

So PoE doesn't offer anything that other games, not even RPG are offering to me already. On top of that, the gameplay mechanics seems rather broken, attributes are useless and all the fights can be easily won by giving to all the members some ranged weapons and by having a single tank in the front.

 

as I said before Obsidian tried to reinvent the wheel with PoE but it could only design a square one! This is not the game I was promised in the Kickstarter pitch.

[Tartantyco]

The main point is that exploration helped you level; that is important in a game about leveling.

 

 

And it still will, because you have to explore to find and complete quests.

 

 I just want to get xp from exploring.

 

 

You never got XP for exploring in IE games. You got XP for the stuff you came across while exploring. Like quests. 

 

Have some consistency in your arguments. First, the game is broken for using a different XP system. Then it's perfectly okay to have a different XP system.

 

It is nonsense to suggest the fact that one could use exploring to gain levels isn't at least a major element of BG's exploration.

 

 

Literally nobody is arguing that.

 

BTW: Keeping the exploration from BG wouldn't make poe even close to a "carbon copy" as you fallaciously suggest.

 

 

Your own words defeat you.

[Namutree]

 

I simply cannot level without doing quests. This fact is game breaking.

 

 

Hyperbole much?

 

Not in this case. Not being able to get xp without quests makes doing anything else mostly meaningless in terms of the game's primary mechanical function; leveling.

[Tartantyco]

Not in this case. Not being able to get xp without quests makes doing anything else mostly meaningless in terms of the game's primary mechanical function; leveling.

 

 

Something something extremely narrow definition.

[Namutree]

 

The main point is that exploration helped you level; that is important in a game about leveling.

 

 

And it still will, because you have to explore to find and complete quests.

 

So you're telling me: Since while exploring I'll get a quest; so I can stop exploring, and do the quest. That is the same as leveling while exploring. BS.

 

 

 

Have some consistency in your arguments. First, the game is broken for using a different XP system. Then it's perfectly okay to have a different XP system.

 

What I want is the same effect. How it's achieved is a detail. I used exploring in BG to level without doing quests. That's what I want. Xp without a requirement for quests. BG's exploration let you do that. My only issue with the current xp system is that I cannot get xp from exploring without a quest involved. I DON'T LIKE DOING ERRANDS FOR XP!  

Edited August 22, 2014 by Namutree

[Tartantyco]

So you're telling me: Since while exploring I'll get a quest; so I can stop exploring, and do the quest. That is the same as leveling while exploring. BS.

 

 

You don't get XP for exploring in any IE games. Your argument makes no sense.

 

Here's what you'll be doing in Baldur's Gate: You'll walk around in the wilderness and either come upon a quest or a mob. You will then do that quest or kill that mob. It's exactly the same!

 

What I want is the same effect.

 

 

And that is what you get.

 

 My only issue with the current xp system is that I cannot get xp from exploring without a quest involved

 

 

And in BG1 you couldn't get XP without there being a quest or mob involved.

[Namutree]

 

So you're telling me: Since while exploring I'll get a quest; so I can stop exploring, and do the quest. That is the same as leveling while exploring. BS.

 

 

You don't get XP for exploring in any IE games. Your argument makes no sense.

 

Here's what you'll be doing in Baldur's Gate: You'll walk around in the wilderness and either come upon a quest or a mob. You will then do that quest or kill that mob. It's exactly the same!

 

The enemies are a part of the environment; quests are just tasks. Big difference.

[Panteleimon]

 

It's not like the wilderness maps in BG1 were empty or anything. There was always something cool there. How much would it change things if you got an XP reward for finding the xvart village, rather than for slaughtering the poor xvarts and their friend, Mr. Bear?

 

 

 

Oh man, the Xvart village. How sad, and what a wasted opportunity to make those little guys more than tiny blue XP boosts.

[Tartantyco]

The enemies are a part of the environment; quests are just tasks. Big difference.

 

 

Irrelevant distinction. You are either exploring, or you are not. You either deal with what you come across while exploring, or you don't. You want to be rewarded for exploring, and you will.

[Zitchiock]

I don't understand why combat wouldn't provide XP. Getting a nice XP boost after toppling a mighty foe (and gathering up their treasure) is always rewarding. I really hope that Obsidian reconsiders this alarming decision. 

[DigitalCrack]

 

 

The main point is that exploration helped you level; that is important in a game about leveling.

 

 

And it still will, because you have to explore to find and complete quests.

 

So you're telling me: Since while exploring I'll get a quest; so I can stop exploring, and do the quest. That is the same as leveling while exploring. BS.

 

 

 

Have some consistency in your arguments. First, the game is broken for using a different XP system. Then it's perfectly okay to have a different XP system.

 

What I want is the same effect. How it's achieved is a detail. I used exploring in BG to level without doing quests. That's what I want. Xp without a requirement for quests. BG's exploration let you do that. My only issue with the current xp system is that I cannot get xp from exploring without a quest involved. I DON'T LIKE DOING ERRANDS FOR XP!  

 

you do realize in the beta if you just go out and explore the cave and kill the ogre or rescue the noble's daughter as a result of random exploration instead of a quests prompting it still gives you xp.  Random exploration resulting in xp gained=same result as BG

[Namutree]

you do realize in the beta if you just go out and explore the cave and kill the ogre or rescue the noble's daughter as a result of random exploration instead of a quests prompting it still gives you xp.  Random exploration resulting in xp gained=same result as BG

 

 

 

I didn't realize in BG I had to go to town and ask an npc to give me xp. Even if this very fallacious argument had any merit; let me ask you this:

 

What if I don't know which npc the said Ogre head is even related to? Should I run around town talking to every npc hoping to get xp.

 

Also; what if I didn't notice the Ogre head or thought it was worthless? How am I supposed to know it's attached to a quest? I could very well end up leaving the cave being none the wiser.

 

These are issues that would/will come up. Not that that would even be the same.

[Panteleimon]

 

you do realize in the beta if you just go out and explore the cave and kill the ogre or rescue the noble's daughter as a result of random exploration instead of a quests prompting it still gives you xp.  Random exploration resulting in xp gained=same result as BG

 

 

 

I didn't realize in BG I had to go to town and ask an npc to give me xp. Even if this very fallacious argument had any merit; let me ask you this:

 

What if I don't know which npc the said Ogre head is even related to? Should I run around town talking to every npc hoping to get xp.

 

Also; what if I didn't notice the Ogre head or thought it was worthless? How am I supposed to know it's attached to a quest? I could very well end up leaving the cave being none the wiser.

 

These are issues that would/will come up. Not that that would even be the same.

 

 

First, everyone in that dang village talks about how the peasant got his pigs stolen by the Ogre.

 

 

Why is decapitating the Ogre even intrinsically worth a reward, on it's own? You can take his stuff and plunder his cave, maybe find hidden depths or passages to other areas. Disconnected from ANY other rationale or motivation, I think that's good enough. Regardless, as others have said, a well-crafted quest XP system will accommodate you.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Panteleimon

[Tartantyco]

What if I don't know which npc the said Ogre head is even related to? Should I run around town talking to every npc hoping to get xp.

 

 

This is related to quest design, not XP systems. You initialize a conversation with the Ogre, and through that conversation you can easily contextualize the quest.

 

Also; what if I didn't notice the Ogre head or thought it was worthless? How am I supposed to know it's attached to a quest? I could very well end up leaving the cave being none the wiser.

 

 

See above reply. However, you don't need the Ogre head.

 

These are issues that would/will come up. Not that that would even be the same.

 

 

Only if quests are poorly made. Again, irrelevant to the XP system.

[Zansatsu]

I don't understand why combat wouldn't provide XP. Getting a nice XP boost after toppling a mighty foe (and gathering up their treasure) is always rewarding. I really hope that Obsidian reconsiders this alarming decision.

 

Nor do I. The problem is people in hear talk in absolutes. If you like kill xp your wrong, that's old hat, it's broke. Or it's vice versa. Actually its a style preference, neither is good or bad. I like kill xp. I don't think it detracts but adds another layer to the experience. Others hate it.

[Namutree]

 

Everyone in that dang village talks about how the peasant got his pigs stolen by the Ogre. Why is decapitating the Ogre even intrinsically worth a reward, on it's own?

 

You're the one who brought up the Ogre. I never said what was quest xp should now be exploration xp. I merely want some way to get xp while exploring. See, I tend to hate quests. In BG I would just wander around aimlessly for fun enjoying the atmosphere and whatnot. Once in a while enemies would attack me and I of course would slay them to not get killed. Then back to aimlessly wandering I'd go... Good memories. Sometimes I'd get a level up and that was cool. In fact that's how I'd get most of my level ups.

 

See, the reason getting quests put a damper on that is that it gives you direction. Your not exploring anymore; you're traveling. Sure wandering could get me to bump into some npc doofus with some boring mission, but if I do the quest I'm not wandering am I? That's the problem; quests take away all the fun. Now, some may disagree with me. I'm sure many do, but if they just added exploration-xp this issue could be solved for me and those like me without hurting anyone else.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Namutree

[DigitalCrack]

 

you do realize in the beta if you just go out and explore the cave and kill the ogre or rescue the noble's daughter as a result of random exploration instead of a quests prompting it still gives you xp.  Random exploration resulting in xp gained=same result as BG

 

 

 

I didn't realize in BG I had to go to town and ask an npc to give me xp. Even if this very fallacious argument had any merit; let me ask you this:

 

What if I don't know which npc the said Ogre head is even related to? Should I run around town talking to every npc hoping to get xp.

 

Also; what if I didn't notice the Ogre head or thought it was worthless? How am I supposed to know it's attached to a quest? I could very well end up leaving the cave being none the wiser.

 

These are issues that would/will come up. Not that that would even be the same.

 

Well considering it puts the ogre head in your "quest Items" stash that answers that.  You get xp for completing the tasks or different objectives in a quest line, even if you never talk to an npc to close it out or start it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

I merely want some way to get xp while exploring. See, I tend to hate quests. In BG I would just wonder around aimlessly for fun enjoying the atmosphere and whatnot. Once in a while enemies would attack me and I of course would slay them to not get killed. Then back to aimlessly wondering I'd go... Good memories. Sometimes I'd get a level up and that was cool. In fact that's how I'd get most of my level ups.

See, the reason getting quests put a damper on that is that it gives you direction. Your not exploring anymore; you're traveling. Sure wondering could get me to bump into some npc doofus with some boring mission, but if I do the quest I'm not wondering am I? That's the problem; quests while exploring take away all the fun. Now, some may disagree with me. I'm sure many do, but if they just added exploration-xp this issue could be solved for me and those like without hurting anyone else.

 

In this, we're like kindred spirits, heh!

That's very much how I remember BG1 as well, I follow my heart, and go and do what I please, and now and then, but seldom, I got a notice of a level up. Those are indeed lovely memories. Actually, you are making a pretty interesting case for no-quest xp. I could certainly live with that, since everything I do in an RPG are interesting little objectives, but quests seem to pompous and righteous. I'm just adventuring and exploring, that's all.

[Namutree]

Actually, you are making a pretty interesting case for no-quest xp.

 

Unlike Obsidian as of now; I'm not out to ruin other people's fun. Keep the quest xp in for those who like them. No skin off my back that people wanna play as a pseudo servant. 

[DigitalCrack]

 

Actually, you are making a pretty interesting case for no-quest xp.

 

Unlike Obsidian as of now; I'm not out to ruin other people's fun. Keep the quest xp in for those who like them. No skin off my back that people wanna play as a pseudo servant. 

 

Whats to keep you from slaughtering the countryside?  is xp your only motivation?  Heck I didn't quest in IE games for years getting no xp for completion and it was still fun.  As for random exploration and fighting it was all about finding treasure and sweet items that drove the fun in that not grinding for xp.  Point being xp doesn't drive the fun, its fun just playing and xp is a by-product of playing, in which you will still obtain by random exploration in this game just by different means.

Edited August 22, 2014 by DigitalCrack

[Tartantyco]

Namutree, you're not being rewarded for exploring. You're being rewarded for arbitrarily killing various wildlife.