Giantbomb Quicklook on the 24th

[Karranthain]

 

Love it. If someone told me, say 4 or 5 years ago, that we'd actually get to play classic IE-inspired 2D cRPGs again...

 

Aside from the fantastic environmental art, I really liked the dialogue screen and the character creation (I can already see myself spending hours with it and restarting the game several times - until I get my character "just right"). And I love the Darklands-esque CYOA segments. Absolutely fantastic.

 

Nitpicking time:

 

1) The character models look okay, but still somewhat disappointing (even if we'll pretty much never seem that that close as in the character creation preview),

 

2) The combat feels rather floaty, for a lack of a better word. The characters appear to be gliding and it feels that there's no real weight to the combat. This is perhaps partially due to the fact that the weapon sounds are rather underwhelming (though I bet that they are placeholders). The animations are rather clunky too (I'm guessing these are temporary as well),

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

 

4) The arrows are flying veeery slowly and actually look more like darts,

[Amentep]

I liked it.

[Valmy]

 

Love it. If someone told me, say 4 or 5 years ago, that we'd actually get to play classic IE-inspired 2D cRPGs again...

 

 

Indeed.  The only thing more amazing is the inability of the industry to do what those games did so well again.  It seems like the tech upgrades have largely had a regressive effect on gameplay.  So excited we are so close to release and it looks just great.

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

Love it. If someone told me, say 4 or 5 years ago, that we'd actually get to play classic IE-inspired 2D cRPGs again...

 

 

Indeed.  The only thing more amazing is the inability of the industry to do what those games did so well again.  It seems like the tech upgrades have largely had a regressive effect on gameplay.  So excited we are so close to release and it looks just great.

 

I believe the big companies that make rpgs are trying to attract more people into the genre. This isn't necessary bad. They pushed the genre forward in some ways. The action-rpg genre was created and evolved. The Gothic, Risen, Witcher, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls series are good examples of that. You can't say that because they left the party-based prespective they don't do well. And Bioware is coming back with Inquisition, that looks amazing so far.

Truth is, there were elements of the classic games that were left behind. And that's what these new, low budget rpgs (Shadowrun, Divinity, Wasteland, Eternity etc) are about to brig back and evolve.

There is not just one way to make an rpg. There are many. And is good we can have so many takes to how the best rpg should be by all these teams. We'll have more games of our beloved genre in the future, and, I believe, it's going to evolve even more in all it's aspects

[Valmy]

 

There is not just one way to make an rpg. There are many. And is good we can have so many takes to how the best rpg should be by all these teams. We'll have more games of our beloved genre in the future, and, I believe, it's going to evolve even more in all it's aspects

 

 

I have no problem with The Witcher or any of those games.  I do have a problem with, for example, Dragon Age claiming to be a modern update to the IE games and having so much less content and features.  I think there should be more than one sort of RPG.  I want the kind of I like to be included though.  It has been quite awhile.

[Elzarath]

Wow, very impressive. I like that you can see his cloak when you equip it, and the bars above their heads during combat don't look anywhere near as bad as I thought they might!

 

I didn't mind the UI overall, would just prefer to switch the position of the options menu (?) and combat log. Generally the centre of the screen is where the action is so I wouldn't want to take my eyes off it too much to focus on the corner of the screen and back again during combat.

[Lephys]

I do always hope for full, flowy cloaks instead of back-tapestry cloaks. BUT, I'll take them! 8D

[Stun]

I do always hope for full, flowy cloaks instead of back-tapestry cloaks. BUT, I'll take them! 8D

Don't they flutter in the video?

 

I'll watch it again but I could have sworn there *was* cloak animation.

[Lephys]

They do. I don't think I was specific enough. I always hope for actual cloaks instead of capes.

 

I shouldn't have said "flowy," as it was misleading.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Lephys

[Gauge]

Is anyone else concerned that several media outlets are getting to play this before we do?  I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but it seems like the spirit of the kickstarter is getting lost more and more as we get closer to release.

[Silent Winter]

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

[bronzepoem]

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

 

I didn't think so.They should improve the power of enemies, but not subdued the ability.That's the sweet spot of combat.

[Elzarath]

Yeah, full blown cloaks would be cool but these capes are awesome and exactly what I was expecting.

 

Also, scripted interactions - nailed it.

[Silent Winter]

 

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

 

I didn't think so.They should improve the power of enemies, but not subdued the ability.That's the sweet spot of combat.

 

By the 'ability effects' I was thinking of the special FX rather than the power of the abilities - some seemed very big for what was a small ability. (large waves of power coming off it)

[Karranthain]

 

 

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

 

I didn't think so.They should improve the power of enemies, but not subdued the ability.That's the sweet spot of combat.

 

By the 'ability effects' I was thinking of the special FX rather than the power of the abilities - some seemed very big for what was a small ability. (large waves of power coming off it)

 

 

Indeed. The fighters seem to be equipped with personal forcefields

[AndreaColombo]

The video is downright AMAZING and I loved every bit of it.

 

With but three exceptions, at least two of which have already been mentioned:

 

• Recycled icons from IWD2.
  Recycling art assets from existing games is something I would generally expect from modders, but not from developers. But I'm sure they are just placeholders for the real deal
• Cloak/cape animations are ... static?
  They look rather stiff and unrealistic; their flowing animation could be better/more fluid.
• Enemy AI looks fairly dumb.
  When the protagonist rushes to the archer, the archer keeps shooting arrows at him in melee combat. If the enemy warriors belong to a PC class, they don't seem to make use of any of their class abilities. They just keep doing the same thing regardless of what party members do, and don't seem to have intelligent targeting. Again, I suppose this is temporary, placeholder AI?

 

Anything else from the vid is pretty much spectacular: the look and feel, the jaw-dropping backdrops, the scripted interactions, the UI. Everything is triple-effing-A!

 

Kudos, Obsidian!

Edited July 26, 2014 by AndreaColombo

[Hiro Protagonist II]

• Enemy AI looks fairly dumb. When the protagonist rushes to the archer, the archer keeps shooting arrows at him in melee combat. If the enemy warriors belong to a PC class, they don't seem to make use of any of their class abilities. They just keep doing the same thing regardless of what party members do, and don't seem to have intelligent targeting. Again, I suppose this is temporary, placeholder AI?  

 

Yeah, the enemy A.I. does need work. I mentioned it in another thread about the ooze and other enemies. Although, if the enemy changes weapons, there will be a 2 second delay as per Josh's post. So while the enemy changes weapons, you'll have a 2 second window to exploit that. eg. Have a couple of ranged attackers shooting at the archers while a melee fighter runs in, enemy changes weapons and can't do anything for 2 seconds and dead enemy!

[AndreaColombo]

Yeah, the enemy A.I. does need work. I mentioned it in another thread about the ooze and other enemies. Although, if the enemy changes weapons, there will be a 2 second delay as per Josh's post. So while the enemy changes weapons, you'll have a 2 second window to exploit that. eg. Have a couple of ranged attackers shooting at the archers while a melee fighter runs in, enemy changes weapons and can't do anything for 2 seconds and dead enemy!

 

 

True. That's why a smart AI would switch from a ranged weapon to a melee weapon as they see you rushing toward them (provided they could see you do that in a given circumstance; such as the one in the video)

[Hiro Protagonist II]

A good question would be how far would the melee character have to be before the enemy changes weapons? I can imagine having a few of you party members with ranged weapons shooting at the enemy. Send one in with a melee weapon, enemy changes weapons and is delayed for 2 seconds and your melee character runs away before he reaches the enemy, enemy then changes back to ranged weapons and delayed another 2 seconds. Then have your character run back in again.

[Valorian]

 

• Enemy AI looks fairly dumb. When the protagonist rushes to the archer, the archer keeps shooting arrows at him in melee combat. If the enemy warriors belong to a PC class, they don't seem to make use of any of their class abilities. They just keep doing the same thing regardless of what party members do, and don't seem to have intelligent targeting. Again, I suppose this is temporary, placeholder AI?  

 

Yeah, the enemy A.I. does need work. I mentioned it in another thread about the ooze and other enemies. Although, if the enemy changes weapons, there will be a 2 second delay as per Josh's post. So while the enemy changes weapons, you'll have a 2 second window to exploit that. eg. Have a couple of ranged attackers shooting at the archers while a melee fighter runs in, enemy changes weapons and can't do anything for 2 seconds and dead enemy!

 

 

Thankfully, the combat is not so fast.  Two seconds is a rather short interval and such a tiny penalty compared to the benefit you're getting from swapping weapons.

I'd like less focus on the weapon set switch so I'm in favor of enemies (and characters) being less reliant on weapon swapping - this can be achieved by increasing the penalty for swapping weapons in combat. It will no longer be a no-brainer choice and the AI wouldn't need to use it, and instead it would stick to the equipped weapon set.

 

I do wonder if there's a penalty for fighting with a ranged weapon in melee range.

[Sonntam]

A good question would be how far would the melee character have to be before the enemy changes weapons? I can imagine having a few of you party members with ranged weapons shooting at the enemy. Send one in with a melee weapon, enemy changes weapons and is delayed for 2 seconds and your melee character runs away before he reaches the enemy, enemy then changes back to ranged weapons and delayed another 2 seconds. Then have your character run back in again.

 

You forget about the engagement/disengagement mechanic. When you disengage you have slower run speed and it's easier to daze you. It would completely negate the benefit of having the enemy switch weapon. 

 

So, unless you are a barbarian and are willing to use up your cooldowns for this hit and run tactic, it would be of very limited and situational use.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sonntam

[bronzepoem]

 

 

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

 

I didn't think so.They should improve the power of enemies, but not subdued the ability.That's the sweet spot of combat.

 

By the 'ability effects' I was thinking of the special FX rather than the power of the abilities - some seemed very big for what was a small ability. (large waves of power coming off it)

 

Err..Did they? I didn't have such feeling although I watched the video several times...anyway，is that a weakness?

Edited July 26, 2014 by bronzepoem

[bronzepoem]

 

 

 

 

3) Personally, I'd be happier if the ability effects were a bit more subdued, particularly the basic ones,

I agree with this - some did seem a little over the top

 

I didn't think so.They should improve the power of enemies, but not subdued the ability.That's the sweet spot of combat.

 

By the 'ability effects' I was thinking of the special FX rather than the power of the abilities - some seemed very big for what was a small ability. (large waves of power coming off it)

 

 

Indeed. The fighters seem to be equipped with personal forcefields

 

You mean when Calisca opened Defender modal,the ability should be a model action but the FX looks like a magic spell.Yes, that's a problem, but really a small one.You know to design a new model mesh will cost much more than add a special FX.

Edited July 26, 2014 by bronzepoem

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

You forget about the engagement/disengagement mechanic. When you disengage you have slower run speed and it's easier to daze you. It would completely negate the benefit of having the enemy switch weapon. 

 

So, unless you are a barbarian and are willing to use up your cooldowns for this hit and run tactic, it would be of very limited and situational use.

 

I didn't forget about the engagement/disengagement mechanic which is why I said it depends on how far you're away from the enemy before they change weapons, a mechanic that's not in the game. This is all hypotheticals so it's all a bit moot until we play the game and see how much we can exploit the A.I.

[Valorian]

Here's another observation.

Enemies drop their possessions when they  , so filling two or more of their weapon set slots results in much more loot. Much more loot could lead to a destabilized economy. 

I suppose it would be all right for archers to have a backup melee weapon. Melee combatants will do fine with a single weapon set.