Bester Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy an ebook. Then they send each other a copy and read it (simultaneously or not, I don't know). Piracy or not? Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy a hardcover book. Then they read it one by one. Piracy or not? What I'm actually interested in is buying the new W2 novella, but as a group buy, because $5 is still an unfair price. Is it bad or not? Edited May 30, 2014 by Bester IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy an ebook. Then they send each other a copy and read it (simultaneously or not, I don't know). Piracy or not? Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy a hardcover book. Then they read it one by one. Piracy or not? What I'm actually interested in is buying the new W2 novella, but as a group buy, because $5 is still an unfair price. Is it bad or not? Good question around lending someone an ebook. I don't know But my advice is don't do it if there is any risk of it being pirating 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy an ebook. Then they send each other a copy and read it (simultaneously or not, I don't know). Piracy or not? Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy a hardcover book. Then they read it one by one. Piracy or not? When you give the ebook to the next guy, do you delete it from all your devices? Otherwise it sounds very much like copy infringement if you copy the ebook, keep a copy for yourself and pass the copy onto someone else. 1
Gorth Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy an ebook. Then they send each other a copy and read it (simultaneously or not, I don't know). Piracy or not? Say 5 guys get their funds together and buy a hardcover book. Then they read it one by one. Piracy or not? When you give the ebook to the next guy, do you delete it from all your devices? Otherwise it sounds very much like copy infringement if you copy the ebook, keep a copy for yourself and pass the copy onto someone else. Pretty much this. As implied in the word "copyright", it's who has the right to make copies of his/her work. If you lend somebody a paperback book, you are not copying it (i.e. a new paperback book doesn't pop out of thin air so you both have one). No idea how ebooks work, but if creating multiple copies of the product, you are entering copyright infringement territory. If you were to give the other guy the actual physical device the ebook resides on, so you don't have it anymore yourself... I guess you could argue you didn't copy it, but actually lend the one and only copy to somebody else. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Bartimaeus Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Are we talking about in a legal or a moral sense? Your first question was "piracy or not?", when makes me think legal; your second is "is it bad or not?": which is it? Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Humanoid Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 One person buys it and reads it out over Skype to the others, would that be infringement? P.S. Until this whole Kickstarter thing I had no idea what a novella was. And I'm still confused over exactly what and how many novellas are even being created as part of this project, and all the other projects for that matter. I guess it's something I've been ignoring. L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 One person buys it and reads it out over Skype to the others, would that be infringement? P.S. Until this whole Kickstarter thing I had no idea what a novella was. And I'm still confused over exactly what and how many novellas are even being created as part of this project, and all the other projects for that matter. I guess it's something I've been ignoring. In Australia, absolutely yes !!!! The rest of the world, no. "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Are we talking about in a legal or a moral sense? Your first question was "piracy or not?", when makes me think legal; your second is "is it bad or not?": which is it? Barti I always get nervous when people start raising points around pirating like " in a moral or legal sense" Normally what follows is a vindication of pirating based on some pseudo-intellectual justification of why they pirate and the reasons why its "not pirating" On my old forum there were loads of people who use to unashamedly admit to pirating and frankly not caring. One guy even use to justify it by saying " he pirates games because the developers don't make games that are at the same standard as games in the past. So by not paying for games you are helping the developers to make better games as they won't generate as much revenue and they will realize they need to make better games" I kid you not, this was his explanation for pirating "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Bartimaeus Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Morality, (at least for this issue), doesn't really interest me. Other people's subjective morals are hardly likely to be of interest to me unless they raise interesting, new points/perspectives...of which there is almost certainly to be none of in regards to this subject, as it's such a dry, burnt topic that everyone seems to already have entrenched view points regarding. Nor am I really interested in detailing my own, equally subjective thoughts on any issues such as this in a forums as wildly polemic as these can be. Consequently, I'm more interested in the legal aspect, and would like to see the discrimination made between the two for this discussion so I can either ignore or follow this topic, accordingly. Edited May 30, 2014 by Bartimaeus Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Morality, (at least for this issue), doesn't really interest me. Other people's subjective morals are hardly likely to be of interest to me unless they raise interesting, new points/perspectives...of which there is almost certainly to be none of in regards to this subject, as it's such a dry, burnt topic that everyone seems to already have entrenched view points regarding. Nor am I really interested in detailing my own, equally subjective thoughts on any issues such as this in a forums as wildly polemic as these can be. Consequently, I'm more interested in the legal aspect, and would like to see the discrimination made between the two for this discussion so I can either ignore or follow this topic, accordingly. Fair enough. That's a logical question being interested in the legal aspect of pirating "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
ManifestedISO Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Digital books are digital. Can't turn pages and they don't smell of newly-printed ink. Speaking of which, I just secured the softcover compendium of IDW's run of G.I. Joe: Cobra Civil War, including Snake Eyes solo series because ninjas. Edited May 30, 2014 by ManifestedISO 1 All Stop. On Screen.
Chilloutman Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Completely my point of view: 1) If you pirate something just to test it and then buy it if you like it its ok 2) if you buy it and then share it with your friends its ok (they can buy it later but then its their moral view on it) 3) if you just pirate it for sake to not pay its wrong 4) if you buy it and then share to broad audience its wrong 5) shady are is when you would buy it but there is some "personal principle" (for me for example game can be played only with ORIGIN or require ALWAYS ONLINE for SINGLE PLAYER) I can justify to not support that product by buying - its really heavily individual *just for note, I dont pirate any game on Origin so far - most of them doesnt even have value of data downloaded 1 I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 How about this one. How is it different to torrent a book, from going to a library and getting it for free also. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 How about this one. How is it different to torrent a book, from going to a library and getting it for free also. Good consideration, the one difference I can think of is with a library you don't own the book. The library does and they paid for it but they let you borrow it but when you torrent a book you own the book without paying for it. "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 How about this one. How is it different to torrent a book, from going to a library and getting it for free also. You're removing the book from the library and nobody else can read it. With a torrent, you're not removing it from the internet. A torrent is just like a copy. You torrent (copy) and the book is still on the internet. If you're going to compare it to a library, then it would be the same as taking the book to the photocopier or a scanner, photocopy or scan every page, put the book back on the shelf and walk out with the copy.
Chilloutman Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Is problem that coping information is easy or its benefit? I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I'm ambivalent towards piracy. To be honest, if people pirate I don't really care. I have more important issues in my life.
Helz Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I'm ambivalent towards piracy. To be honest, if people pirate I don't really care. I have more important issues in my life. It's pretty easy to feel that way if you're not actually a target of it. Overall though, I don't believe piracy is anywhere near as big a problem as its made out to be. In the OPs situation, I'd share the damn novella. Would the publisher be better off if he didn't buy it and none of his friends ever read it? Or would they benefit from the one sale they got and the interest in Wasteland 2 that it generated? 1
Rosbjerg Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 It's an interesting point, whether piracy helps business or not. Historically piracy and copyright infringement certainly seems to be a positive factor for overall development, as free ideas are improved upon and used to increase efficiency all around. But there have certainly also been a lot of individuals hurt in the process. 2 Fortune favors the bald.
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) But wait I thought the end point of the piracy is that it hurts the author. In my example beyond the first book that the library and the pirate buy, they will not be making any more profit of that book. That the library has less books to give and the torrent has more is another issue. If the library was optimal it would have one book for everyone who wants it. Also you could always delete the book after you download it. edit: Plus there are libraries now days that offer digital books. Edited May 30, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Helz Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Despite how what I said might have come across, I want to add that I don't defend piracy. Every excuse people make for it rings hollow to me. I don't believe for a second that someone "testing a game out" is actually going to buy it after they've already played it, nor do I buy into the anti-DRM justification. By stealing the game, they're validating the publisher's choice to use DRM in the first place and screwing over the rest of us. 3
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 By stealing the game, Without going into and arguing definitions. It isn't stealing or theft. It's copyright infringement. Even the courts and laws recognise this. 1
Bester Posted May 30, 2014 Author Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I really hate how everyone here feels some pressure to specify that THEY DON'T PIRATE GAMES. It's your private affairs and it's beyond the point of what's being discussed. Any personal attack against you in this context would be a sign of bad manners, nothing else. So grow a pair and stop apologizing for what you didn't even do. Bweh. Edited May 30, 2014 by Bester IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link
Humanoid Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I'm bad at piracy. Back in the 90s I was a dumb kid who spent about $400 on an CD writer thinking it'd save me a ton of money in the long run, but ended up making copies of ....nothing. Possibly the worst $400 I've spent on computer stuff ever. Sure I burnt a few audio CDs here and there with Napster-sourced music, but if I were to guess, I reckon maybe I'd have actually used it, oh, maybe 20 to 30 times? Horrendous. At least I didn't fall into the trap of buying an Iomega Zip drive though. Edited May 30, 2014 by Humanoid 1 L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G
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