Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[Valorian]

The raging paranoia is strong in you two. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_People%27s_Army

 

Oh my, English wikipedia is using "JNA" too (because, you know, that's the correct initialism). English wikipedia has been take over by Croatian or Muslim (or Albanian or Bulgarian or..) propaganda! 

[Sarex]

Still didn't answer the question, where are you from?

[obyknven]

Kievan junta start grand assault against rebelled Slavjansk. East Ukrainian checkpoints fallen one per another, on video survived remnants of local militia unit, only 5 from 25 men reach city, for this they pentrate two lines of punishers who surround them.  Junta used in assault artillery and helicopters, Nazianal guards totally outnumbered defenders, 50 punishers per 1 selfdefence members. During heavy firefights heavy loses of punishers are reported also. High civilian casulaties are expected, majority people on checkpoints are unarmed local citiezens , their fate unknown.

http://youtu.be/oNRTRNrgzW4

Militia prepare city for defence.

http://youtu.be/Ex3mlAt8yYg

[Valorian]

From the EU. I hope this satiates your curiosity, because I have no desire to be interrogated by a nobody on a video game company's forum.

You are free to believe whatever you please, of course, if it helps you maintain sanity in that world of yours where fiction and reality are interchangeable.

[Sarex]

From the EU. I hope this satiates your curiosity, because I have no desire to be interrogated by a nobody on a video game company's forum.

You are free to believe whatever you please, of course, if it helps you maintain sanity in that world of yours where fiction and reality are interchangeable.

 

Lol, you are a first class troll. Anyways you should look up a map, you didn't disprove anything with that claim. The facts are, you are parroting the propaganda that I hear from Muslim and Croats all the time, so it's nothing I haven't heard before. The fact the you mentioned the NATO bombings as a just punishment just confirms it. Next time try to ease in to, don't go full zealot straight away.

[Valorian]

Speaking about interchanging fiction and reality...

 

 See how there at the end he insinuated that we got what we deserved when NATO bombed us.

 

 

 

The fact the you mentioned the NATO bombings as a just punishment just confirms it. 

 

 

I did not say that Serbia got what it deserved or that the NATO bombing was a just punishment.

In fact, it was too little too late. It should've been done in the early '90s.

Although, it did promptly stop the Serbian slaughter and ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its pointless, just put him on ignore.

[Malcador]

Compared to that, what NATO did is nothing. You should be thankful.

To be fair, that does come across as Serbia deserving the NATO attacks

[Gorgon]

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. If you met in a bar, how long before you would be throwing punches at eachother. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. If you met in a bar, how long before you would be throwing punches at eachother.

About 3 shots of vodka and 4 minutes of conversation.

[Malcador]

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. If you met in a bar, how long before you would be throwing punches at eachother. 

 

Hey, nothing wrong with being actively aggressive!

[Mor]

Now since you're so interested I have basically no doubt that they decided they were going to try and flip Yanukovich if they got the opportunity, from the start, it's a tactic they've used previously and successfully and Tyanybok outright states that they've been looking for an issue to trigger something, and I have no doubt that they were actively encouraged to do so by the EU and US as that is a tactic they've used successfully in their various colour revolutions, hence the EU's intransigence about agreements when the Russians were willing to compromise. And power blocs are always looking for opportunities to flip countries, anyone who thinks theirs is lily white in that regard is deceiving themselves.

 

But I doubt they expected or planned for what they've now got. They give the distinct impression of being a bunch of headless chickens stuck in the headlights to mix a metaphor- now- that they distinctly did not when the revolution was in progress. They, and the EU/US thought they saw a golden opportunity to permanently alter the facts on the ground in their favour, gift themselves the next set of elections by crippling the PoR and Communists, and get Ukraine's western track so far in advance that it wouldn't matter what the eastern parts wanted as by the time they had a say it'd be irreversible. They critically miscalculated just how much importance Russia puts on Ukraine, how reliable the eastern parts of the state apparatus would be having spent so much of their energy slagging them off and in some cases sacking them and, well, thought that their opponents would just suck it up and didn't really believe strongly enough to really react. Now, they don't have a clue what to do, they've broken their country, probably permanently.

Are you sure its not your bias that is talking? because you pretty much described every god damn political campaign i.e. identifying main issues, and riding them to the ballot.. which you papered with your usual vague EU\US support and insinuation that revolution in that guys local lingo is more than what the Orange revolution was.

 

So no, you don't have anything but vague insinuation on the "planed" part, certainly not about the Euromaiden.(the link does nothing but feeding your confirmation bias) I don't suppose you have anything on that "US\EU support" being anything out of the ordinary or less than what has been doing in that time period(certainly nothing like Russia recent actions since the start of the crisis)

 

Overall you seem to be narrowly focused on laying blame to one side (which to you svoboda represent) and legitimize the actions of other, (like Russian media)

[BruceVC]

The raging paranoia is strong in you two. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_People%27s_Army

 

Oh my, English wikipedia is using "JNA" too (because, you know, that's the correct initialism). English wikipedia has been take over by Croatian or Muslim (or Albanian or Bulgarian or..) propaganda! 

 

You need to realize that both Drowsy and Sarex don't trust or like the West because of the perceived  unfair treatment of Serbia  by NATO  during the Bosnian war. Drowsy is more reasonable but Sarex is hardcore anti-western. So don't take criticism from them seriously, the rest of us don't

[BruceVC]

 

Compared to that, what NATO did is nothing. You should be thankful.

To be fair, that does come across as Serbia deserving the NATO attacks

 

 

Yes the general concensus from people outside Serbia is that the Serbs did bring it on themselves. I am not going to deny that

[Malcador]

You need to realize that both Drowsy and Sarex don't trust or like the West because of the perceived  unfair treatment of Serbia  by NATO  during the Bosnian war. Drowsy is more reasonable but Sarex is hardcore anti-western. So don't take criticism from them seriously, the rest of us don't

Ah, it's funny what a **** you are.

 

As for consensus, I'm not sure about that, really, while it was going on here people were a bit suspect of the "Serbs are the new Nazi" type reports to justify NATO's target practice.

 

But then again, this entire thread is an exercise in futility as everyone's just dismissing the other.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

 

You need to realize that both Drowsy and Sarex don't trust or like the West because of the perceived  unfair treatment of Serbia  by NATO  during the Bosnian war. Drowsy is more reasonable but Sarex is hardcore anti-western. So don't take criticism from them seriously, the rest of us don't

Ah, it's funny what a **** you are.

 

As for consensus, I'm not sure about that, really, while it was going on here people were a bit suspect of the "Serbs are the new Nazi" type reports to justify NATO's target practice.

 

But then again, this entire thread is an exercise in futility as everyone's just dismissing the other.

 

 

 

As I have mentioned several times I don't dislike Drowsy or Sarex but we have very different political views on most topics.

 

 But you can call me an a***  if that makes you feel better, it won't stop me pointing the obvious view that Drowsy and Sarex have about the West.

 

They are defensive around the treatment of Serbia and what Serbia did during the during the Bosnian war. Maybe you should try to understand why we sometimes criticize other members comments instead of making petulant insults because of your lack of knowledge of history

[Gfted1]

Maybe you should stick to providing your own opinion instead of trying to discredit everyone that doesn't agree with you by posting that nobody takes them seriously.

[Malcador]

Well I call you that because that's pretty much what you are even with the act, aside from your post entirely.  It's not really that hard to understand you and others' assessment of them either knowing your biases reading this thread and others before.   Well that and that topic not really being what this thread is about, heh.

 

Not that the reading is all that hard, I went to school with Croats and Serbs and did talk about the wars with them as it's something notable about their countries' history (like the murder rate, corruption in mine).  Some fell on the sides I expected, others did not.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Malcador, he's just showing what hides beneath his very thin veneer of politeness. Claiming something as vile as that people halfway across the world he's never seen "brought it upon themselves" to be bombed and then outright dismissing any comments from the other side merely because its "the other side" is the sort of kangaroo court thinking that is suited to the inquisition and has no place in polite discussion. 

 

In other words, don't bother.

 

In news: fights raging around Slavyansk. The units loyal to Kiev are better equipped and are gaining ground. Russians still not really responding apart from propaganda support.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[BruceVC]

Maybe you should stick to providing your own opinion instead of trying to discredit everyone that doesn't agree with you by posting that nobody takes them seriously.

 

I never said no one takes there opinion seriously, I said no one takes there insults seriously. There is a big difference

[Valorian]

 

The raging paranoia is strong in you two. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_People%27s_Army

 

Oh my, English wikipedia is using "JNA" too (because, you know, that's the correct initialism). English wikipedia has been take over by Croatian or Muslim (or Albanian or Bulgarian or..) propaganda! 

 

You need to realize that both Drowsy and Sarex don't trust or like the West

 

 

Oh, I'm aware of that. Serbs generally hate the West and simultaneously worship mommy Russia, but when it's time to emigrate (which is the ultimate dream of a large percentage of Serbs) they never go to Russia, they move to the EU or North America.

 

 

 

Compared to that, what NATO did is nothing. You should be thankful.

To be fair, that does come across as Serbia deserving the NATO attacks

 

 

Yes the general concensus from people outside Serbia is that the Serbs did bring it on themselves. I am not going to deny that

 

 

Indeed. They can be upset about the truth all they want and imagine it's everyone else's fault, but it won't do them any good.

[213374U]

^ That's some quality baiting there, champ. I'm tempted to reply myself, and I'm not even Serbian!

 

edit: Serbian? Serb? Whatever

Edited May 5, 2014 by 213374U

[BruceVC]

^ That's some quality baiting there, champ. I'm tempted to reply myself, and I'm not even Serbian!

 

edit: Serbian? Serb? Whatever

 

You should go back and read the previous page to see how Valorian was insulted and baited by Drowsy and Sarex for expressing his opinion. Then comment on who is being rude to who

[Malcador]

In news: fights raging around Slavyansk. The units loyal to Kiev are better equipped and are gaining ground. Russians still not really responding apart from propaganda support.

Well, this might end well after all, on a bigger scale - no need for the US and Russia to jump in. Ukraine's probably screwed for a while to come, but seems unavoidable.

[213374U]

 

^ That's some quality baiting there, champ. I'm tempted to reply myself, and I'm not even Serbian!

 

edit: Serbian? Serb? Whatever

 

You should go back and read the previous page to see how Valorian was insulted and baited by Drowsy and Sarex for expressing his opinion. Then comment on who is being rude to who

 

I'm sorry, you mean before or after he said Serbs should be thankful for the NATO bombings?