Update #75: Bringing Creatures to Life: Animation on Pillars of Eternity

[Bavarian]

In an interview (http://gamecrate.newegg.com/josh-sawyer-pillars-of-eternity-interview/) I heard there is no romance, how come obsidian prefered to make a boring mega dungeon (like the very boring mega dongeon in BG2) and no romance ? Very bad choice imo

 

Disagree.  I know I'm not alone in thinking the romance options in the BG series were just distractions to the actual game.  I didn't straight up dis-like them, but they just seemed like silly additions.  I'd MUCH rather have the resources spent on a deep dungeon with tons of lore and items to find as my character progresses.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Did I just read "mega dong"?

[ManifestedISO]

The mega dong eon. It was a turgid period.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hehe! He was asking for romance, and it is well known that lovey dovey stuff also entails more explicit behaviour. Now I'm really curious about this Mega Dong Eon. In a CRPG, I mean...  *cough* If I saw a neon sign that says "MEGA DONG EON" in some shabby district, I would scurry by, without as much as a glance.

Edited April 5, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

A crowd gathers at Kanamara Matsuri - the mega dong-festival.

[Bryy]

are difficult to do "right" (i.e. in a tasteful and non-cheesy way).

 

You do know that romance is not sex, right?

[Stun]

 

are difficult to do "right" (i.e. in a tasteful and non-cheesy way).

You do know that romance is not sex, right?

 

His statement does not suggest otherwise.

 

If Romance was just sex then it would be next to impossible for them to not do it right, as all it would take is 2 words of text (Wanna F*ck?) LOL It's only when Devs decide to make romance into something more than just sex that they tend to start piling on the cheesy, cringy stuff and then everything fails.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Stun

[Stun]

how come obsidian prefered to make a boring mega dungeon (like the very boring mega dongeon in BG2) and no romance ? Very bad choice imo

What an odd question. Of all the things in this game that take time and resources to do, why do you pit the Mega Dungeon against romances? That's like my most anticipated feature. Leave it alone. Try asking a better question, like:

 

1) Why a boring second City instead of Romances?

2) Why boring Cyphers and Paladins instead of Romances?

3) Why boring Crafting instead of Romances?

4) Why a boring Stronghold instead of Romances?

5) Why boring Godlike Races instead of Romances?

 

of course, all of these questions have the same, perfect, completely reasonable answer: Because 1-5 are almost always more fun and about 10x better done than Obsidian-written Romances.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

I think this thread should return to the subject. There are plenty of romance threads to go to if you don't want to talk about the update.

[Wicelo]

I'm saying boring mega dungeon because the one in Bladur's gate expansion was boring. Of course you can argue and say that the Eternity megadungeon won't be boring but in my opinion all those monolytic big mega dungeon are cosubstantial to boringness while romance bring up some charm to the game

Edited April 6, 2014 by Wicelo

[Stun]

I'm saying boring mega dungeon because the one in Bladur's gate expansion was boring. Of course you can argue and say that the Eternity megadungeon won't be boring but in my opinion all those monolytic big mega dungeon are cosubstantial to boringness while romance bring up some charm to the game

Did the Romances in Neverwinter Nights 2 bring charm to that game, or did they instead, bring awkwardness... like something was out of place?

[Quetzalcoatl]

To be fair, he does have a point. The Elanee character and romance was more creepy and unsettling than any 15-level dungeon filled with untold monstrosities could ever be.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Quetzalcoatl

[Falkon Swiftblade]

regarding the animations, this is so fast and easy to do you guys should implement this into the game and the whole game would be like 900% better since you could quickly add dozens of variables and blend states so creatures have some personality. I can't believe how simple this is to do.

 

http://youtu.be/t_dXBdqX5oA

Edited April 6, 2014 by Falkon Swiftblade

[Bryy]

I'm saying boring mega dungeon because the one in Bladur's gate expansion was boring. Of course you can argue and say that the Eternity megadungeon won't be boring but in my opinion all those monolytic big mega dungeon are cosubstantial to boringness while romance bring up some charm to the game

You are comparing something you have not even played to something that does not even exist.

[WorstUsernameEver]

 

I'm saying boring mega dungeon because the one in Bladur's gate expansion was boring. Of course you can argue and say that the Eternity megadungeon won't be boring but in my opinion all those monolytic big mega dungeon are cosubstantial to boringness while romance bring up some charm to the game

You are comparing something you have not even played to something that does not even exist.

 

Average forum post, basically?

[Lephys]

The obvious solution here is a 15-level, boring, Mega-Romance.

[Stun]

Or a charming 15 level mega dungeon.

[Bryy]

No, the obvious answer is just an RPG set in college.

[Vansinne]

I also want a wheel.

[600lbpanther]

 

Kickin' It Forward

 

 

We love tabletop games at Obsidian, and what better way to bring your campaigns to life than with some awesome modular cavern sets? The guys over at Dwarven Forge are releasing a brand new set of modular cavern tiles crafted from their new unbreakable Dwarvenite material. They've got some really cool stretch goals to add even cooler pieces, including a Lava Cavern Add-On Pack. Check out their Kickstarter campaign here!

 

 

5 Hours left...

 

I've invested far more than I care to acknowledge right now so beware if you donate...adds up really fast and the add-ons are awesome.

We're about 40g away from $2,000,000.  If we get 2,000,000 there is a final stretch goal. 

 

If you like table top gaming or just want a computer desk environment befitting Pillars of Eternity...come donate!

Edited April 8, 2014 by 600lbpanther

[Lephys]

Finally got to watch the update video clips. I've gotta say, that's a pretty great (as well as hilarious) simulation of isometric perspective for the Animation Team (aka A-Team... someone get those guys a black-and-red van), haha. Good movements, too, . I likes their shambles, gallops, and trudges.

 

And the animation reels on the creatures were pretty great. If I'm not mistaken, those are simply raw, transition-less toggles between animations, right? The animations themselves look pretty good, and I won't judge the transitions that weren't there, because I'm pretty sure they weren't intended to be there in these snippets.

 

The only thing I'll say is that, from that angle (which is not the angle from which we, the players, will be viewing things in actual gameplay, I realize), the Druid-Cat (aka "Drat") looks a bit bobby when it runs. Maybe a little too much vertical motion there in the strides? *shrug*. Again, it might look fine from above. So, maybe that's helpful, and maybe it isn't.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Lephys

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Update by Rose Gomez, Associate Producer

 

From Concept to Completion

 

A lot of work has to go into a creature or NPC before the animating even begins. Using the Druid Cat Form as an example, the pipeline begins with taking a look at the design documents to see what the designers have come up with as to how the creature should look and feel. What kind of attacks should he have? What mood should his walk and run animations portray? Once those things are decided, it moves onto the concept stage. When it comes to creatures, it's usually Polina who will take a crack at fleshing out what they are going to look like. You may remember the Cat Druid Form concept from a few updates ago, shown here again:

 

Druid Cat Form Concept.

 

Once the concept is finished, that's when animation team comes in. The animator will consult with the designer and the concept artist in order to break down what specific animations need to be made for every creature. An animation list gets written up and saved while the creature is sent off to the character team to get modeled and skinned.

 

The character artist will block out and hook up the model in the engine so that we can take a look and see if any new systems need to be implemented for this creature. Maybe we want him to have a special ability that hasn't been designed yet, like a transformation between one form to another. That's when a programmer would step in to help design a way to make those special systems work.

 

With the systems in place, the animators can finally begin to animate! Animating for a video game is a bit different than animating for a feature. Each action a character is going to use has to be broken into a separate animation so that the game engine can call on them when different criteria are met. Even simple things like a character's run and walk need to be planned out and separated into small individual animations. A typical full animation set can take up to a month (and for more difficult creatures, sometimes even two months) to implement. During the animation process, animators will work very closely with design to make sure that every creature looks and moves just like they envisioned.

 

Once all of the animations for the creature are blocked in, the animator can bring them into the engine and start seeing how they fit together in the actual game. There is a lot of back and forth between the animation package and the engine at this point in order to fine tune each animation. If the lead is happy with how an animation looks then the animator is done and can move on to the next creature on the list.

 

In-engine creature animations.

 

 

 

 

I'm curious to know the time frame it takes from concept to completion with all the models.

 

Was it just Polina doing all the concepts or were there other artists?

Once the concept is finished, how long does it take to model it?

How much time is spent polishing the model until you get it to a level when it goes into the game?

 

How many models are there that this process has to be repeated?

I assume a lot of models will use the same wire frame. How much time did this cut down on production time with using the same wire frames?

When you have some weird models like beholder with eye stalks, how much time is spent on these harder models compared to the easier ones?

[Bryy]

I agree with Hiro's question.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I believe they said in an older update it takes about 6 weeks from start to finish for concept to modeling, rigging and animating it. It vary's on whether they are humanoid versus something like the flying drakes, which apparently are much more work, especially creatures with multiple legs or appendages.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I was more curious to understand the process time in different stages. It may take 6 weeks for concept to final model and assume there's quite a few animators. Are there stages in where one animator does most of the work and passes it onto another animator to finish it off? Or does the one animator stay with that model from concept to finish product.

 

If it takes a month and a half (6 weeks) to do one model, after a year (taking into account things like holidays), so that one animator has done about 8 models for the year? How many models are in the game? How many animators are needed to do all the models? Sounds like a lot of work, time, money and resources to what appears to be a small output of models for one animator over the course of a year. Perhaps Obdisian has ways to streamline or make the process more efficient to push out more models. I don't know much about making crpg's and the work involved which is why I was asking.