Obsidian partners with a publisher for PoE

[Allvaldr]

From what's been described so far, their role is more that of a distributor and less the traditional role of a videogame publisher, regardless what the dictionary says.

[Lephys]

I meant Paradox didn't fund Pillars.

True enough. I was more trying to speak to the fact that people pretty much jump to the conclusion that hiring someone to publish your stuff automatically means they own you, hence the panic welling up in response to the announcement of this partnership.

 

I mean, if Obsidian just said "Paradox is now our publisher," and that's it, then yeah, I'd understand people saying "Okay, so... I'm curious... do the specifics of that agreement allow them any creative license with the project?". But, Obsidian's been very specific, and yet still people come in here, don't even read all the stuff Obsidian took the time to spell out for everyone, and just go "So wait, the game's Call of Duty now?!" 8P

 

I just wish people would take the time to save everyone (themselves included) the trouble, and observe the information available before A) requesting information that's already available and B) freaking the hell out because of assumptions.

 

I like for people who don't know things to then know those things. It's pleasant. I just wish it could happen in a smoother fashion.

[Tamerlane]

All I have to say about this momentous news is

 

 

okay.

[Bryy]

 

I meant Paradox didn't fund Pillars.

True enough. I was more trying to speak to the fact that people pretty much jump to the conclusion that hiring someone to publish your stuff automatically means they own you, hence the panic welling up in response to the announcement of this partnership.

 

I mean, if Obsidian just said "Paradox is now our publisher," and that's it, then yeah, I'd understand people saying "Okay, so... I'm curious... do the specifics of that agreement allow them any creative license with the project?". But, Obsidian's been very specific, and yet still people come in here, don't even read all the stuff Obsidian took the time to spell out for everyone, and just go "So wait, the game's Call of Duty now?!" 8P

 

I just wish people would take the time to save everyone (themselves included) the trouble, and observe the information available before A) requesting information that's already available and B) freaking the hell out because of assumptions.

 

I like for people who don't know things to then know those things. It's pleasant. I just wish it could happen in a smoother fashion.

 

People don't like their Us Vs. Them view of the world shattered. That means they don't know everything.

[drake heath]

 

I meant Paradox didn't fund Pillars.

True enough. I was more trying to speak to the fact that people pretty much jump to the conclusion that hiring someone to publish your stuff automatically means they own you, hence the panic welling up in response to the announcement of this partnership.

 

I mean, if Obsidian just said "Paradox is now our publisher," and that's it, then yeah, I'd understand people saying "Okay, so... I'm curious... do the specifics of that agreement allow them any creative license with the project?". But, Obsidian's been very specific, and yet still people come in here, don't even read all the stuff Obsidian took the time to spell out for everyone, and just go "So wait, the game's Call of Duty now?!" 8P

 

I just wish people would take the time to save everyone (themselves included) the trouble, and observe the information available before A) requesting information that's already available and B) freaking the hell out because of assumptions.

 

I like for people who don't know things to then know those things. It's pleasant. I just wish it could happen in a smoother fashion.

 

Yeah, but you can't make sweeping hyperbolic statements about how Obsidian is selling out if you do that.

[Bryy]

Ultimately, everything is bad and you're the only one that knows anything.

 

This thread reminds me of that thread on the BSN where people wanted to make a game company to "show BioWare how it's done".

 

The whole mentality is irrational, and it stems from our fear that we're not as smart as we want to be, and that the world is out of our control. We need an enemy to rally against, someone who is doing Bad. And if That Thing We Like does something even remotely related to Bad, then it obviously was corrupted in some mythical, magical way that has no basis in reality. But what I've found most disturbing is that some people with this view want other people to disagree with their viewpoint in order to validify their own superiority.

 

It's just vijeo gaems, guys.

[Lephys]

Yeah, but you can't make sweeping hyperbolic statements about how Obsidian is selling out if you do that.

Hey, if being a balla' is good, then imagine how badly people want to be a hyper-balla'.

[illathid]

 

More importantly, Paradox are generally anti-DRM... it's a good match... 

 

They used to be anti-DRM until few years ago. Their games usually have now a no-Steam.exe but Paradox moved recently to Steam-online-activation only. And I don't see them changing their stance on Steam anytime soon, since they say loudly how they love it.

 

 

 

Obsidian/Paradox RPS discussion about this... 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/03/19/project-eternity-release-date/

 

 

They used to be anti-DRM until few years ago. Their games usually have now a no-Steam.exe but Paradox moved recently to Steam-online-activation only.

 

Sad... Steam may not be terrible, (Starforce/SecuROM/Origin/GFWL/Ubiplay terrible), but still a far cry from DRM free... 

 

Just to be clear, Paradox Development games do not require any connection to Steam other than to download, update, or use multiplayer. I could link posts from Paradox devs describing exactly how to  get one thier games running on your computer without it ever having it used Steam or Steam getting any information about you. Granted this requires a friend with steam on thier computer and creating a false steam account and paying with Steam gift card. Regardless, the point is that Paradox is generally very anti-DRM still, even with thier adoption of Steam.

[Elerond]

 

 

This project just died.

How so?

Imagine you are a dev of fan funded game that was funded without the "bad" publishers sticking their noses in it. Now you run out of money because you didn't finish on time (PoE was delayed from original date - fact). What do you do? You find a publisher and sell out. But you are aware that your fanbase would riot. So, now what you do? You tell the fanbase that it's ok, that you have all the cards in your hand, but in reality you have only the printed portrets of us presidents and the card deck is in publishers pocket.

To be honest haven't we heard that before? Devs and publishers claiming that devs have all creative freedom, but later we learn that publishers practically reviewed and had to accept every aspect and every part of the game. Could it be every time? Lets be honest the big publishers company is run by accountants and shareholders and they dont give decisive decisions to someone else.

Now lets think why would Obsidian need publisher.

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

3. If not for above then whats would be the reason to get a publisher?

4. Note that nowhere they use a word hire, they use partnership. Really? Do any of us "partner" with delivery service company to distribute something? Or do we hire them? Partnership is a description of different kind of business agreement.

 

 

1. They want someone to market their game so that it has potential to sell more

2. They want also sell physical copies for people who didn't back the game. And they don't produce any physical goods by themselves, so they need to order them from someone else, so it is also quite reasonable that that someone else also handles packaging and posting of those goods for those who have ordered them.

3. They need also someone to handle localisation and localisation testing of the game, as they don't have expertise to do such things by themselves.

4. Major part of their backers are from Europe, so it is very reasonable to partner with some European company that can deliver goods there cheaper and who have knowledge how European markets works.

5. Partnership term is used because of nature of agreement between companies, where Obsidian don't pay fixed number, but instead Paradox get some percentage of sale revenue, which can mean that deal can be profitable or unprofitable for them. And Paradox and Obsidian have conversations of future co-operation.

 

So they partnered with Paradox because Paradox can offer most things that had to outsource, because lag of expertise or equipment, in one package.

[Bryy]

Even if that were true, I love - absolutely love with every part of my body - how you point-blank stated that "selling out" is simply finding more money.

 

But for some reason that's still bad.

 

 

This project just died.

How so?

Imagine you are a dev of fan funded game that was funded without the "bad" publishers sticking their noses in it. Now you run out of money because you didn't finish on time (PoE was delayed from original date - fact). What do you do? You find a publisher and sell out. 

[rustypup]

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

Wait. Just.... wait a second. You imagine that the end product will only ever be provided to the backers? 

 

I just can't... I don't... I confess to be in awe. 

[Bryy]

Sharp. I have a very earnest question to ask you.

 

Why are you a fan of Obsidian if you think they are bad guys?

[Leferd]

 

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

 

Wait. Just.... wait a second. You imagine that the end product will only ever be provided to the backers? 

 

I just can't... I don't... I confess to be in awe.

I actually find reading lots of the knee-jerk overreactions to be quite humorous.

 

Plus, apparently Obsidian isn't allowed to make a big profit and sell to a wider audience beyond backers? Talk about self-entitlement.

[Night Stalker]

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

3. If not for above then whats would be the reason to get a publisher?

4. Note that nowhere they use a word hire, they use partnership. Really? Do any of us "partner" with delivery service company to distribute something? Or do we hire them? Partnership is a description of different kind of business agreement.

 

 

Sharp_one, try reading this article, I think it will dispel many of your worries.

[rustypup]

Obsidian isn't allowed to make a big profit and sell to a wider audience beyond backers? 

 

This is what disturbs me the most. In what universe was this ever *not* the end goal. 

 

I think some folks have misunderstood the mechanics behind Kickstarter/crowd-funding in general. 

[Madae]

I don't see a problem with this. Paradox is a great company and made some of my favorite games (most notably Crusader Kings 2). And yeah, they aren't involved in development, so who really cares? I can think of a worse partnership *coughEAcough*.

 

Also, I'm still extremely peeved that I can no longer back PE for a collector's edition or something. Exclusivity on Kickstarter is really starting to piss me off - I don't care how cool the concept is.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Madae

[Huinehtar]

Just to be clear, Paradox Development games do not require any connection to Steam other than to download, update, or use multiplayer. I could link posts from Paradox devs describing exactly how to  get one thier games running on your computer without it ever having it used Steam or Steam getting any information about you. Granted this requires a friend with steam on thier computer and creating a false steam account and paying with Steam gift card. Regardless, the point is that Paradox is generally very anti-DRM still, even with thier adoption of Steam.

 

As I previously said, Paradox keep a no-steam.exe, but they stick to Steam online activation, what is just a move from other web services online activation, like the Vicky 2 addon - a House Divided - IIRC, which needs an online activation at their own website during the install. There was controversy IIRC when they released the boxed version of Vicky 2 + a House Divided, and the DVD setup only installed the original game, you should go register to their website to have a House Divided. So basically, the boxed version was useless. That didn't happen for Vicky 1 and its addon Revolutions, since boxed Victoria Complete Pack doesn't have any DRM at all. Again regarding boxed copies, if you compare to the other series, Crusader Kings II or Europa Universalis IV need Steam to be installed, but Europa Universalis III Chronicles and Crusader Kings Complete Pack didn't have any DRM just like Vicky Complete Pack.

 

They now require a Steam online activation at install for every boxed game they make and/or produce for few years. Even though they can provide a no-steam.exe, Paradox still use Steam as an online activation DRM. Thus, they aren't anti-DRM anymore, no matter what they can say.

[Hassat Hunter]

It's time for the fun game... let's bold all unthruths in the following post!

Imagine you are a dev of fan funded game that was funded without the "bad" publishers sticking their noses in it. Now you run out of money because you didn't finish on time (PoE was delayed from original date - fact). What do you do? You find a publisher and sell out. But you are aware that your fanbase would riot. So, now what you do? You tell the fanbase that it's ok, that you have all the cards in your hand, but in reality you have only the printed portrets of us presidents and the card deck is in publishers pocket.

To be honest haven't we heard that before? Devs and publishers claiming that devs have all creative freedom, but later we learn that publishers practically reviewed and had to accept every aspect and every part of the game. Could it be every time? Lets be honest the big publishers company is run by accountants and shareholders and they dont give decisive decisions to someone else.

Now lets think why would Obsidian need publisher.

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

3. If not for above then whats would be the reason to get a publisher?

4. Note that nowhere they use a word hire, they use partnership. Really? Do any of us "partner" with delivery service company to distribute something? Or do we hire them? Partnership is a description of different kind of business agreement.

That's a lot of bold text there!

Also, I'm still extremely peeved that I can no longer back PE for a collector's edition or something. Exclusivity on Kickstarter is really starting to piss me off - I don't care how cool the concept is.

Ehm,

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

 

GO, GO, GO!

[Bryy]

Sharp, you know Obsidian plans to sell this game.

 

We even had a huge argument about it in another thread.

 

That's why I'm having such a hard time believing that you are actually this naive.

 

You just want to start a fight.

[rustypup]

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

GO, GO, GO!

Still want an add-on store with a selection of cosmetic effects 

[sesobebo]

Yeah Paradox isn't funding or directing our development in any way. They're handling things that would be very hard/time consuming for us: physical fulfillment and general distribution. Over half of our backers are in Europe. I'm not sure why anyone would want us to spend their money and our time personally handling fulfillment. It was heartwarming to see Stoic figuring out how to get thousands of Banner Saga posters out of their house and shipped out to people but that's not really what developers are built to do.

.

[rustypup]

You imagine that the end product will only ever be provided to the backers? 

 

No, where exactly did I wrote that?!

All I wrote is the PHYSICAL copies will be sent to limited number of recipients. Is that not true?

 

It was very much implied.

 

You appear to be struggling under the misapprehension that we purchased product. We did not. We funded its creation. As a reward we have secured various items, both digital and physical, which may include copy of the end product but that was a one-time reward for our contribution in funding its creation. We are not the sum total of the market.

 

There can, and should, be a plethora of units made available across *all* channels to prospective customers because that's how this business works. We want this, because success in this one project means we can expect to see a continuation of this direct creator/consumer dynamic. This is *only* a success if Obsidian moves units. Our funding is not the EBITDA. It's the capital investment. Future sales is where the profits are buried. For that you need marketing and a dedicated team geared toward shifting said product.

 

Given that creators are generally not well equipped to meet this demand, offloading the function on a specialist is absolutely the correct, responsible, approach.

 

How difficult is this to grasp? 

[Allvaldr]

 

 

4. Note that nowhere they use a word hire, they use partnership. Really? Do any of us "partner" with delivery service company to distribute something? Or do we hire them? Partnership is a description of different kind of business agreement.

 

Just going to respond to this one point, because the rest is simply too ignorant to even bother.

 

Partner is a very common business term to use in any service industry. You hire people. You don't hire companies. I procure road transports every day. The trucking companies I procure those road transports from are business partners. They aren't employees. Even if they are working on my order within a very specific scope, that still doesn't mean they aren't business partners.

[rustypup]

It was very much implied.

 

No, it wasn't. I'm not responsible for your delusions.

 

 

 

 

This project just died.

How so?

<..>

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

3. If not for above then whats would be the reason to get a publisher?

 

Look, to be fair, I received a fair number of warnings that this is the case, but it is impossible to interpret this any other way. 

 

It saddens my to say it, but flagged as a troll. Not a particularly imaginative or creative one at that. 

[sesobebo]

why is hiring someone to handle Your shipping bad? why should a game developer bother with it, if someone else can do it [better]? where do You draw the line then?


You've opened with the statement, that this project is doomed, because a publisher got involved, and publisher = bad.
publishers aren't bad. publishers, that subjugate the inegrity of the game and it's developers to the maximized monetary gain, are bad -- because they subjugate the inegrity of the game and it's developers to the maximized monetary gain. publishers, that manage the printing, translations, shipping, etc., so that the developers don't have to chop down trees to make the paper, are good.

Edited March 20, 2014 by sesobebo