Jump to content

Pillars of Eternity – Partnership FAQ for Backers


Recommended Posts

I think I'm OK with this. I think the only issue I might have is if the retail version is going to use Steam as DRM, but I'm not sure if that would even depend on Paradox because it's really common these days anyway, so... Not that it affects me because I backed the game on Kickstarter and I will get the game on GOG, but I still don't like retail games using DRM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's too early to tell. But why don't you just stick to your digital pledge for now and get a physical box after release without any shipping costs? ;)

I somehow doubt we would get a physical release here though.

Not to mention... additional goodies! :)

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a huge driving force in Paradox abandoning non-steam platforms the cost of having a non-steam based multiplayer infrastructure for 5% of customers?

 

So with PoE being a fully single player game, there's no reason they'd go with Steam exclusivity, especially not if Obsidian don't want them to.

Edit: Forgot to add, awesome news, can't wait.

Edited by R4ph
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a huge driving force in Paradox abandoning non-steam platforms the cost of having a non-steam based multiplayer infrastructure for 5% of customers?

 

So with PoE being a fully single player game, there's no reason they'd go with Steam exclusivity, especially not if Obsidian don't want them to.

 

Edit: Forgot to add, awesome news, can't wait.

You're absolutely right. Multiplayer games and singleplayer games don't share the same requirements and considerations. Going Steam-only is a new trend for MP games because you don't have to have an own server running and managing.

 

But as you said, there is no reason for that if the game is SP only.

  • Like 1
35167v4.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

given the Obsidian's [imo vastly exagerated and severely over-lingering] nefariousness for buggy games, and seeing how the paradox will be handling the QA:

 

-will all of the QA be handled by Paradox?

-if no, to what extent will it be performed by Obsidian?

-if yes, how will this affect the procedures (efficiency, response time, etc.)?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

given the Obsidian's [imo vastly exagerated and severely over-lingering] nefariousness for buggy games, and seeing how the paradox will be handling the QA:

 

-will all of the QA be handled by Paradox?

-if no, to what extent will it be performed by Obsidian?

-if yes, how will this affect the procedures (efficiency, response time, etc.)?

 

They already have their own people playtesting the game and afaik they always have bunch of people testing their own games even though there's a publisher involved.

Hate the living, love the dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this whole thing is a storm in a teacup. Nothing changed except Obsidian doesn't have to worry about distribution anymore, allowing them to spend their effort where it matters.

 

Nothing to see here, move along.

Maybe a nod of thanks to paradox for being so cool about this.

  • Like 1

Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Paradox on board, how much input will they have into the EULA for PoE?

 

I normally refuse to purchase Paradox games because their EULA terms give them the ability to summon me across an ocean to appear in a court that normally would not have any jurisdiction over me.  Never going to happen (for both financial and other reasons), thus I have games that I purchased in bundles sitting in my Steam account (don't get me started on them, either) that will never be played because of their EULAs.  Essentially, Paradox titles are wasted money for me.

I will need to double check with Feargus when he gets back from GDC, but I think Obsidian will still control the terms of the EULA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point in time, would you know if activation of the physical copies both (a) non-backer copies and (b) backer copies will require Steam?  I assume Paradox will also cover distribution of backer copies.

 

While the information may not be on hand right now, I have a feeling it would be a good idea to add in a pre-release FAQ, given people's experiences with recent releases.  Mostly with regards to non-backer physical copies, e.g., does it require uPlay, does it require Origin, does it require Steam, is it one-time activation, are you redirected to an Obsidian portal to choose which one to take ownership.

 

I'm sorry, I was generally the FAQ-maker at work so it's a hard habit to break. 

It isn't a specific issue that has come up, but the physical copy shouldn't require Steam. We are releasing DRM-free builds, so the physical disks will probably be DRM-free or have a CD key. Something like that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not happy at all about that partnership, and all italians backers shouldn't be happy: if you check the list of the games published by Paradox Interactive in tha last years you'll find that the publisher has very little interest in italian market. I would have liked to buy many of these games (Crusader Kings II, Europa Universalis IV, etc) but even if I'm able to play in english I choosed not to buy them due to the lack of attention to italian customer. So, I think that definitely we'll not have any italian translation. I'm very disappointed. I hope I'm wrong... :(

We are currently planning on localizing the game into Italian. We will not be doing VO specific to each language, though.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

given the Obsidian's [imo vastly exagerated and severely over-lingering] nefariousness for buggy games, and seeing how the paradox will be handling the QA:

 

-will all of the QA be handled by Paradox?

-if no, to what extent will it be performed by Obsidian?

-if yes, how will this affect the procedures (efficiency, response time, etc.)?

 

I agree on the first line... now, I don't work for OE obviously, but;

 

* No

* To the extend of how many QA people they have able to put on PoE.

* As QA gears up towards the end of development, it's a bit too early. Though I assume Paradox will have an efficient bug report system to give reports to OE fast as possible, with the subsequent return of fixed files for new testing. Of course it might loose the touch of personal contact you might have with inhouse, but how often does that really happen? (It's a real question, I don't know, but I assume not much. Although certain developers who are closer as a team like Obsidian it's probably more likely to happen.)

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Can we be assured that Steam-free boxed copies will be available for people who hadn't backed the project, at release?

Because, with Paradox nowadays, I am not sure.

 

Yes... Let's just bring this out in the open. I'm a backer, and I have no interest in this crap right here!

 

  • Download / Client Manager is required, including for gameplay
  • User account creation is required
  • Warranties waived (excluding physical merchantability warranties)
  • Cover waived against any unforeseeable damages, disruptions of service
  • Users must accept ALL changes to the Policy before playing the game.
  • Difficult to read, understand and is inconsistently worded
  • Drafted to only abide by the laws of Sweden1
  • Users not visibly notified of any changes made to the EULA / TOS
  • Can’t review and query changes made to the EULA / TOS
  • License to play the game only provided
  • No refunds or exchanges for purchased games
  • Circumvention of Steam DRM prohibited
  • Not permitted to create “mods”
  • Monitoring services / software are required to play Leviathan: Warship
  • Warranties waivered (excluding physical merchantability warranties
  • Class Action Waiver
  • Cover waivered against any unforeseeable damages, disruptions of service
  • Termination process dictated by Paradox Interactive
  • Arbitration process isn’t freely-provided and is overseen by Paradox Interactive2

Note that 1 & 2 are just about a contridiction... Governed by the laws of Sweden & binding arbitration?

 

I did not sign up and back this project for more publisher bullsh*t! If this is the way it's going to go Obsidian, you can take my signed copy right out behind the studio and toss it in the dumpster. I am GDS&T of publishers and their... crap. I have to deal with the atrocities of licensed commercial software all day long at work. I will not come home and deal with product activation and always-on bs and giving me crap about making mods.

 

Seriously... I won't be back to kickstart anything you do, ever again. Don't make go pull Southpark off my wishlist.

 

Obsidian is still controlling how this content is released. Our partnership with Paradox doesn't change that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do know all EULA's are like that? Valve, Blizzard, EA all own your soul nowadays already...

 

And I see the hysterical reaction when Expedition Conquisitor mentioned the same (and possibly other KS'ses, though I didn't back any more) is still present nowadays.

 

Anyway, my question would be... with this deal, could shipping costs in the EU be lower. I refrained from getting a physical copy during KS because of the shipping costs, despite really wanting it... if the costs could be lowered, I could up my pledge to get an actual box, and that would make me very happy :)

I don't think the shipping costs will be lowered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like all the possible issues have been addressed here, thanks for answering. Glad that Paradox's recent love for DRM won't affect this game after the promises made on kickstarter.

 

Have to say though, I love the way every kickstarter campaign starts by slagging off publishers to attract the "lets change the industry" pledges and ends up with a publisher deal! Every kickstarter I've contributed to has been the same so I'm not singling out Obsidian here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)

 

 

Well, that's not very specific, is it. And for the record, I'm not implying that I have any rights to know the details of the deal, I'm merely curious about dealings of my favourite game studio.

 

You aren't the only backer that asked about the compensation. We do business with other companies and that is information that we don't necessarily want to spread around.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My original question was concerning the future boxed copies available at release for non-backers.

Not boxed copies for backers.

Not GOG digital keys for backers and non-backers.

 

I thank Obsidian for planning to have a digital DRM-free version available and to have a DRM-free boxed copy for us, backers.

I was just worried about future boxed copies, since I was planning to buy DRM-free boxed copies for some of my friends who haven't keep an eye on Pillars of Eternity.

We haven't had an in depth discussion, but what we offer to the backers is most likely what we will offer to non-backers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll admit I was a little worried given my limited knowledge the only thing I recalled about Paradox was they were steam only so a big thank you for clarifying that DRM-Free is still good.

 

Its also good that GOG have announced future Linux support means I don't have to fret over redeeming the game with them only to be unable to get it for Linux.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Can we be assured that Steam-free boxed copies will be available for people who hadn't backed the project, at release?

Because, with Paradox nowadays, I am not sure.

 

 

 

I did not sign up and back this project for more publisher bullsh*t! If this is the way it's going to go Obsidian, you can take my signed copy right out behind the studio and toss it in the dumpster. I am GDS&T of publishers and their... crap. I have to deal with the atrocities of licensed commercial software all day long at work. I will not come home and deal with product activation and always-on bs and giving me crap about making mods.

 

Seriously... I won't be back to kickstart anything you do, ever again. Don't make go pull Southpark off my wishlist.

 

 

It sounds like you don't like Publishers, maybe you should be just be honest and admit this. I am finding your nebulous post a little hard to believe .... :-

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like all the possible issues have been addressed here, thanks for answering. Glad that Paradox's recent love for DRM won't affect this game after the promises made on kickstarter.

 

Have to say though, I love the way every kickstarter campaign starts by slagging off publishers to attract the "lets change the industry" pledges and ends up with a publisher deal! Every kickstarter I've contributed to has been the same so I'm not singling out Obsidian here.

 

I wouldn't say that's quite fair--the decrying publishers thing has mostly been from the standpoint of independent development and free contact with the fan/customer base.  And that hasn't changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

given the Obsidian's [imo vastly exagerated and severely over-lingering] nefariousness for buggy games, and seeing how the paradox will be handling the QA:

 

-will all of the QA be handled by Paradox?

-if no, to what extent will it be performed by Obsidian?

-if yes, how will this affect the procedures (efficiency, response time, etc.)?

QA responsibilities will be split between both companies. Obsidian has a dedicated QA lead for the project and will be hiring some additional QA in the coming months. Paradox will also be providing a slew of testers for the game.

 

We are running the QA process on our side (including full control over the issue database). The main changes are that Paradox will handle the QA for things like localization and compatibility testing - things that Obsidian would have to outsource anyways.

 

We are used to working with testing groups from around the world, so I don't expect that there will be many extra inefficiencies. Although, time delays always cause some inefficiencies.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like all the possible issues have been addressed here, thanks for answering. Glad that Paradox's recent love for DRM won't affect this game after the promises made on kickstarter.

 

Have to say though, I love the way every kickstarter campaign starts by slagging off publishers to attract the "lets change the industry" pledges and ends up with a publisher deal! Every kickstarter I've contributed to has been the same so I'm not singling out Obsidian here.

 

Well, if we took on all of the publisher responsibilities then we would become a publisher. That isn't something that Obsidian wants to do. We want to make games, not worry about warehouses, distribution channels, and packaging.

 

I think developers aren't saying that they hate publishers, I think they just want a way to get their games funded without having to give over everything they are working on. That is why the Paradox partnership is great - we are fully funded for the project, we get to keep our work, and we get to focus on making the game.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll admit I was a little worried given my limited knowledge the only thing I recalled about Paradox was they were steam only so a big thank you for clarifying that DRM-Free is still good.

 

Its also good that GOG have announced future Linux support means I don't have to fret over redeeming the game with them only to be unable to get it for Linux.

Darren just sent an article to me this morning about this. This should bode well for DRM-free Linux.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)

 

 

Well, that's not very specific, is it. And for the record, I'm not implying that I have any rights to know the details of the deal, I'm merely curious about dealings of my favourite game studio.

 

You aren't the only backer that asked about the compensation. We do business with other companies and that is information that we don't necessarily want to spread around.

 

 

That's all well and good, but you also did business with backers.  It's chump change in the world of publishers, but its neither insignificant to both the individual backers and obsidian as a company.  Many of the backers (including me) were excited for the possibility of a new, more transparent, business model as well as the game itself.  It's wrong to have two types of transparency for two different groups that are both providing financial and advertising services.

 

This is especially true since in the campaign the company said:

 

"Plus, we don’t have to make compromises with a publisher. We make the development decisions, we market the game, and we don't have to answer to anyone but you – our fans.  Our relationship with you can be even closer with Kickstarter. We can be more transparent with development and give you an inside look to what goes on day-to-day with the programmers, artists, and designers of Project Eternity. "

 

It is not a sign of entitlement to ask merely that you describe business deals that do affect the outcome of this game development process.  So now, I'm politely, without any sign of hyperbolic despair or anger asking "what does Paradox get out of the deal?"  It very well could have been a good decision, but I'd like to know what the decision was.  That's just basic politeness.  

 

We're not investors, we have no legal right to demand information.  However, we did put our trust in Obsidian during the campaign, maybe you should put your trust in us by explaining the business side of things.

Edited by anameforobsidian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)

 

 

Well, that's not very specific, is it. And for the record, I'm not implying that I have any rights to know the details of the deal, I'm merely curious about dealings of my favourite game studio.

 

You aren't the only backer that asked about the compensation. We do business with other companies and that is information that we don't necessarily want to spread around.

 

 

That's all well and good, but you also did business with backers.  It's chump change in the world of publishers, but its neither insignificant to both the individual backers and obsidian as a company.  Many of the backers (including me) were excited for the possibility of a new, more transparent, business model as well as the game itself.  It's wrong to have two types of transparency for two different groups that are both providing financial and advertising services.

 

This is especially true since in the campaign the company said:

 

"Plus, we don’t have to make compromises with a publisher. We make the development decisions, we market the game, and we don't have to answer to anyone but you – our fans.  Our relationship with you can be even closer with Kickstarter. We can be more transparent with development and give you an inside look to what goes on day-to-day with the programmers, artists, and designers of Project Eternity. "

 

It is not a sign of entitlement to ask merely that you describe business deals that do affect the outcome of this game development process.  So now, I'm politely, without any sign of hyperbolic despair or anger asking "what does Paradox get out of the deal?"  It very well could have been a good decision, but I'd like to know what the decision was.  That's just basic politeness.  

 

We're not investors, we have no legal right to demand information.  However, we did put our trust in Obsidian during the campaign, maybe you should put your trust in us by explaining the business side of things.

 

 

We are more than happy to open up the development process to our backers. I feel that we have done a great job (you might disagree) in letting everyone see what it takes to make a game like Pillars of Eternity.

 

That said, we can't really discuss the business terms of the deal. From a practical perspective, we work with other companies and we can't disclose our inner business workings in that way.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...