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Nah, I reject your assessment of the Op's post. Lets not throw the term "trolling" around whenever we don't agree with the sentiment of others. Its counterproductive to the objective  of the actual debate.

 

 

It's not my assessment. I was quoting someone else and it's a basis of fact when dealing with science. You are trolling and you know it. It's counterproductive to ignore the facts, ignore the valid arguments people have put forward in these romance threads, ignore anything that goes against your view point just to post frivolous dismissive comments. We both know it even if you want to play a game of dodge and evade. There's been countless valid points raised against romances. And you've made a frivolous post saying you haven't seen a single valid reason against romances. It's not only ludicrous, it's trolling pure and simple.

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Oh, just one level shy of Epic Trolling! Go for it, MC! :dancing:

The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

Let's Play the Pools Saga (SSI Gold Box Classics)

Pillows of Enamored Warfare -- The Zen of Nodding

 

 

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Nah, I reject your assessment of the Op's post. Lets not throw the term "trolling" around whenever we don't agree with the sentiment of others. Its counterproductive to the objective  of the actual debate.

 

 

It's not my assessment. I was quoting someone else and it's a basis of fact when dealing with science. You are trolling and you know it. It's counterproductive to ignore the facts, ignore the valid arguments people have put forward in these romance threads, ignore anything that goes against your view point just to post frivolous dismissive comments. We both know it even if you want to play a game of dodge and evade. There's been countless valid points raised against romances. And you've made a frivolous post saying you haven't seen a single valid reason against romances. It's not only ludicrous, it's trolling pure and simple.

 

 

 

Indeed. I'm a 20th Level Troll.

 

I have no issue if you guys admit to Trolling around this topic but don't assume I am Trolling.

 

I mean everything I say, I am prepared to debate various points but I do occasionly joke. This is not the same as Trolling. I'm sorry you don't believe this but you will just have to take my word on it

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I have no issue if you guys admit to Trolling around this topic but don't assume I am Trolling.

 

I mean everything I say, I am prepared to debate various points but I do occasionly joke. This is not the same as Trolling. I'm sorry you don't believe this but you will just have to take my word on it

 

 

So what is it Bruce. Are you trolling or joking. Because it's obvious you're not being serious.

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I have no issue if you guys admit to Trolling around this topic but don't assume I am Trolling.

 

I mean everything I say, I am prepared to debate various points but I do occasionly joke. This is not the same as Trolling. I'm sorry you don't believe this but you will just have to take my word on it

 

 

So what is it Bruce. Are you trolling or joking. Because it's obvious you're not being serious.

 

 

Its simple really, I don't ever Troll but I sometimes joke or I'm being serious. So what comment I made do you want to know if I was joking or being serious about?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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This thread needs oby.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Its simple really, I don't ever Troll but I sometimes joke or I'm being serious. So what comment I made do you want to know if I was joking or being serious about?

 

The fact that you've dismissed everybody's valid points on why they don't want romances in the game, in this thread and the other romance thread. You've said you have yet to see a single valid reason. Your words. This is a complete troll. There have been various valid points raised by many people. You've basically said all their valid points are invalid.

 

And then you go on to say you're willing to debate various points. How can anyone debate with you when you've dismissed everybody's valid points in two threads already? Completely ridiculous.

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Its simple really, I don't ever Troll but I sometimes joke or I'm being serious. So what comment I made do you want to know if I was joking or being serious about?

 

The fact that you've dismissed everybody's valid points on why they don't want romances in the game, in this thread and the other romance thread. You've said you have yet to see a single valid reason. Your words. This is a complete troll. There have been various valid points raised by many people. You've basically said all their valid points are invalid.

 

And then you go on to say you're willing to debate various points. How can anyone debate with you when you've dismissed everybody's valid points in two threads already? Completely ridiculous.

 

 

Maybe I should reword what I said, here you go  "no one has made a point that has convinced me that Romance shouldn't be part of an RPG"

 

I don't dismiss anti-romancers opinions, I just don't agree with them. This is not the same point as accepting that there won't be Romance in PoE as Obsidian has explained there motives and I understand those reasons. But this doesn't mean I don't think we can partake in threads similar to "The Case for Romance "

 

I hope this clears this up for you as this is obviously bothering you and the last thing I would want is to upset you in any respects ( now that's a joke :biggrin: )

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I have yet to see a single valid reason posted by anyone that explains how optional Romance dilutes the anti-romance gaming experience.

That's probably because "diluting the gaming experience" is not what romances tend to do. Instead, they just change the experience. They turn it into something wrong and out of place.

 

I'll give you a quick example. Not a great one, but it gets the point across. BG2. You're deep in Fiirkrag's dungeon and the game did a wonderful job building up the tension and the atmosphere. You enter Fiirkrag's lair. You hear the low rumbling..... THEN SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, VICONIA SPEAKS UP: Viconia: I'm wondering this. Have you ever entertained the notion of marriage?

 

 

WTF. I'm about to fight a dragon, and the game just destroyed the mood for me. Wait, check that. the ROMANCE just destroyed the mood, as they almost always do.

Edited by Stun
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I believe what we are witnessing here is some new and extremely virulent form of Willful Ignorance.
 
Willful Ignorance is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one’s inner model of reality. At heart, it is almost certainly driven by confirmation bias.  Depending on the nature and strength of an individual’s pre-existing beliefs, willful ignorance can manifest itself in different ways. The practice can entail completely disregarding established facts, evidence and/or reasonable opinions if they fail to meet one’s expectations.  In other slightly more extreme cases, willful ignorance can involve outright refusal to read, hear or study, in any way, anything that does not conform to the person’s worldview.
 
The morally right way to treat such individuals is not to look down upon, ridicule or attack them, but to help them to be able to accept reality again.

 

 

Come back, Bruce, come back!  We miss you here on terra firma. :biggrin:
 
On a side note, have you seen the film Her?  Hormalakh posed the question earlier.
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I have yet to see a single valid reason posted by anyone that explains how optional Romance dilutes the anti-romance gaming experience.

That's probably because "diluting the gaming experience" is not what romances tend to do. Instead, they just change the experience. They turn it into something wrong and out of place.

 

I'll give you a quick example. Not a great one, but it gets the point across. BG2. You're deep in Fiirkrag's dungeon and the game did a wonderful job building up the tension and the atmosphere. You enter Fiirkrag's lair. You hear the low rumbling..... THEN SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, VICONIA SPEAKS UP: Viconia: I'm wondering this. Have you ever entertained the notion of marriage?

 

 

WTF. I'm about to fight a dragon, and the game just destroyed the mood for me. Wait, check that. the ROMANCE just destroyed the mood, as they almost always do.

 

 

Thats a good point and relevant to my post. I can see how that would impact your gaming experience. In my game this just highlighted the fact that Viconia felt she may be facing death and knowing I had feelings for her gave her reassurance and confidence that she had something to live for. She was the person I Romanced in BG2 and she did have a low self-esteem around my feelings for her.

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I prefer being a barbaric ruffian myself.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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I believe what we are witnessing here is some new and extremely virulent form of Willful Ignorance.
 
Willful Ignorance is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one’s inner model of reality. At heart, it is almost certainly driven by confirmation bias.  Depending on the nature and strength of an individual’s pre-existing beliefs, willful ignorance can manifest itself in different ways. The practice can entail completely disregarding established facts, evidence and/or reasonable opinions if they fail to meet one’s expectations.  In other slightly more extreme cases, willful ignorance can involve outright refusal to read, hear or study, in any way, anything that does not conform to the person’s worldview.
 
The morally right way to treat such individuals is not to look down upon, ridicule or attack them, but to help them to be able to accept reality again.

 

 

Come back, Bruce, come back!  We miss you here on terra firma. :biggrin:
 
On a side note, have you seen the film Her?  Hormalakh posed the question earlier.

 

 

Squeakymeister !!! Salutations :)

 

I like clever posts and your post is an accurate and intellectual way of describing certain personalities in this thread. But don't you think some of your fellow anti-romance members may take exception to your characterization of there psyche? When I read Willful Ignorance I see Hiro, but I would prefer if you told him that as he always seems to want to argue with me :p

I haven't seen that movie, it looks good :)

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Maybe I should reword what I said, here you go  "no one has made a point that has convinced me that Romance shouldn't be part of an RPG"

I hope you would admit that the case set forth by the developers that they don't think they could do it to their satisfaction will indicate a solid point as to why Romance shouldn't be part of the specific RPG of Pillars of Eternity, however.

 

For me the case for/against romance is always predicated in what the developers are trying to accomplish with specific games.

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Reading this thread is a lot like watching two wasted guys trying to punch each other at a bar.

I find it more akin to a bunch of people posting **** on the internet.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Maybe I should reword what I said, here you go  "no one has made a point that has convinced me that Romance shouldn't be part of an RPG"

I hope you would admit that the case set forth by the developers that they don't think they could do it to their satisfaction will indicate a solid point as to why Romance shouldn't be part of the specific RPG of Pillars of Eternity, however.

 

For me the case for/against romance is always predicated in what the developers are trying to accomplish with specific games.

 

 

Absolutely,  I have stated several times I accept the reasons there won't be Romance in PoE. But who knows about the sequel :wowey:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Reading this thread is a lot like watching two wasted guys trying to punch each other at a bar.

I find it more akin to a bunch of people posting **** on the internet.

 

 

Ah yes and thats something I consider you an expert on Kaine, so you should recognise it :biggrin:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I'm an expert on all things.

 

Except mollusks.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Absolutely,  I have stated several times I accept the reasons there won't be Romance in PoE. But who knows about the sequel :wowey:

Hey, they had to save *something* for the sequel.  ;) 

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