Balance updates

[Caerdon]

Just out of general curiosity: how would you feel about after-release balance updates that adjust the game mechanics? Things like bonuses granted by attributes, item stats, class bonuses, racial traits, monster stats, enemy AI, loot system...

 

I suspect some people would like to crucify me for even suggesting something like that, but personally I'd like if Obsidian kept updating the game so that no attribute is unreasonably (un)important in comparison, that all races and classes are equally viable, that the monsters that are supposed to be difficult don't succumb to some silly cheese, that there are always lots of great gear choices instead of a very limited selection of "best" items. Etc.

 

Balance updates might affect your pre-existing characters, so take that into account when forming your opinion.

[Wolfenbarg]

Unless there's an online component, there won't be a constantly evolving metagame, and thus no reason to constantly do updates. However, they will get plenty of feedback from people playing the base game which would allow them to make changes for the expansion. Otherwise it would be a money pit where they aren't getting anything in return. There are no micro transactions to live off of.

[Keyrock]

Even with thorough testing, there will inevitably be exploits and abilities that don't work exactly as intended that players discover once the game is released.  I could see Obsidian patching those.  Beyond that, I'm not sure how much post-release balancing there will be.

[LadyCrimson]

I don't mind/wouldn't be surprised with small post-release patches that address anything that seems really out of whack as people report stuff. That seems a fairly par for the course expectation. That said, don't know about such updating as being some kind of serious regular aspect. Would depend on what they have going/what kind of time I suppose. Might be something better left to modders later.

[Hassat Hunter]

As the others said, I will expect exploits and bugs to be fixed out.

However "balancing", no.

 

This is a singleplayer RPG, not a MMORPG. Inherent inbalance between classes is what makes games such fun. There's no need to turn everything into carbon copies and whatever you chose, your power-level is similar. I'm not quite sure why some developers strive for that, since it's utterly boring and a waste of the class system.

 

Better than to make classes 'equal' there should be monsters around to test you. A mage may be powerful, but there's a monster there that spells will heal rather than damage. You're in trouble. Of course, since you have a party of 6, your other members time to shine is there. That's more better balance I want that 'balance amongst classes, equality amongst classes'.

[Tamerlane]

Pretty common for modern RPGs. We're talking about very math-y systems with a ton of variables, so it really shouldn't surprise anyone. Dragon Age had it, Neverwinter Nights 2 had it, Dungeons of Dredmor had it, New Vegas had it (and Josh Sawyer made his own personal, unofficial balance mod)... I don't think The Witcher ever had any balance changes in its patches, though The Witcher 2 did have its equivalent to jsawyer.esp. It's never as drastic as Blizzard's "nerf the popular thing into submission" style, so there's no real harm to it.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Tamerlane

[PrimeJunta]

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. I'd certainly expect balance mods. Balancing is largely a matter of taste after all.

[Caerdon]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

 

As the others said, I will expect exploits and bugs to be fixed out.

However "balancing", no.

 

This is a singleplayer RPG, not a MMORPG. Inherent inbalance between classes is what makes games such fun. There's no need to turn everything into carbon copies and whatever you chose, your power-level is similar. I'm not quite sure why some developers strive for that, since it's utterly boring and a waste of the class system.

 

Better than to make classes 'equal' there should be monsters around to test you. A mage may be powerful, but there's a monster there that spells will heal rather than damage. You're in trouble. Of course, since you have a party of 6, your other members time to shine is there. That's more better balance I want that 'balance amongst classes, equality amongst classes'.

 

Classes being balanced doesn't mean they are all the same.

 

Balanced means that the classes are (very much subjectively) considered, on average, equally powerful. That's it.

 

If most players refuse to play a druid because druids are generally considered useless, there's an inbalance that, in my opinion, should be fixed. If everyone always maxes out Intelligence on every class because it's just so damn useful, there's another inbalance that should be fixed.

 

Are those, in your opinion, inherent inbalances that "make games such fun"?

[Greensleeve]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

 

As the others said, I will expect exploits and bugs to be fixed out.

However "balancing", no.

 

This is a singleplayer RPG, not a MMORPG. Inherent inbalance between classes is what makes games such fun. There's no need to turn everything into carbon copies and whatever you chose, your power-level is similar. I'm not quite sure why some developers strive for that, since it's utterly boring and a waste of the class system.

 

Better than to make classes 'equal' there should be monsters around to test you. A mage may be powerful, but there's a monster there that spells will heal rather than damage. You're in trouble. Of course, since you have a party of 6, your other members time to shine is there. That's more better balance I want that 'balance amongst classes, equality amongst classes'.

 

Classes being balanced doesn't mean they are all the same.

 

Balanced means that the classes are (very much subjectively) considered, on average, equally powerful. That's it.

 

If most players refuse to play a druid because druids are generally considered useless, there's an inbalance that, in my opinion, should be fixed. If everyone always maxes out Intelligence on every class because it's just so damn useful, there's another inbalance that should be fixed.

 

Are those, in your opinion, inherent inbalances that "make games such fun"?

 

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the answer to that question is going to be "yes." 

 

On a related note, there has been a significant minority here on the forum who very vocally wanted mages to be the über-gods they were in D&D, saying that such class imbalance is an integral part of the experience. I consider such stuff to be bull**** and the epitome of a badly designed system. Everyone doesn't have to be equally good at all things (in fact, that's equally bull**** of a system), but I do want the game to support me in whatever build I wish to create and help me make it viable. Not make me fight against the system to do it, which is what happens in far too many games as is. So I suppose that I would be in favour of post-release balance patches to help rectify some of problems that made the system fight me in trying to build certain characters. 

[anameforobsidian]

Balance updates are fine. Sometimes certain weapons aren't as viable without them, or even worse, frequently the actual mechanics don't match the tooltip. It doesn't need dota style updates, but it should reach an area where the devs are happy. Je Sawyers mod of FNV was better than the base experience, and then he applied balance updates to that.

 

And don't forget, once the game is released devs have access to a wealth of playtest information that they did not have before, so they're making more informed decisions. This is whe the 4e mm3 is so much better than the mm1 with its pushover dragons and murderous swarms.

Edited December 23, 2013 by anameforobsidian