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What's the ONE Thing You've Wanted In RPG's Over The Past Decade?

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Last night, Baldur's gate; Area where Gorion gets killed.  Bear shows as blue til you're relatively close (within sling range).

I still wouldn't call that "up to" the bear, :)

 

Besides, the point wasn't that no game ever gets the range right. It's that there's more to just breaching some radius to an animal's behavior. Yes, eventually, if you get really, really close to it, it's probably going to get angry with you, no matter what, because it has no idea WHY you're so close, and opts to "shoot first and then ask questions" -- to err on the side of caution/survival. But quite often, an animal just hates the fact that you're encroaching on its space, and will simply chase you until you're sufficiently away from it. Not hunt you down forever.

 

It would be nice to see less-overly-simplified animal behavior in such games. 8P. That's all.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Last night, Baldur's gate; Area where Gorion gets killed.  Bear shows as blue til you're relatively close (within sling range).

I still wouldn't call that "up to" the bear, :)

 

Besides, the point wasn't that no game ever gets the range right. It's that there's more to just breaching some radius to an animal's behavior. Yes, eventually, if you get really, really close to it, it's probably going to get angry with you, no matter what, because it has no idea WHY you're so close, and opts to "shoot first and then ask questions" -- to err on the side of caution/survival. But quite often, an animal just hates the fact that you're encroaching on its space, and will simply chase you until you're sufficiently away from it. Not hunt you down forever.

 

It would be nice to see less-overly-simplified animal behavior in such games. 8P. That's all.

 

 

Exactly. Also, bears run away sometimes. Especially bears with less civilian interaction as such in those days. Most bears really aren't aggressive creatures. The only interactions you hear are when they are hungry or are expecting you to feed them.

 

In general, the most thought into reducing 'triggers' and adding real-world immersion in games the better. I've always hated in every game that you can run around from level to level in a tower making massive amounts of noise and no one would hear you from the room or floor right next to yours.

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I want a world that's fleshed out, in which I can do a full range of choices, good or bad, and suffer the consequences of these actions. A world with a variety of vistas, of believable storytelling within a fantasy setting.

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Golem building!

 

NWN and BG2 had some really interesting golem building quests, but I'd love to see more in depth artificer quests in upcoming RPGs, particularly Pillars and Torment.  I really enjoyed the way Legend of Mana allowed you to design a golem sidekick and have it tag along (same for NWN). A golem sidekick like the one in Dragon Age is a nice start,  but being able to play Dr. Frankenwizard and bringing your very own golem creation to life is much better.

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Philosophy.

 

I want my choices to be based on my character's values. I want to talk to companions and NPCs and feel like there is "meat" to the quandary. Ever since WOW introduced floating quest markers, I feel most quests have been "go here, do this, and then I'll be happy" or "give me X and I'll increase my favour to you by amount Y".

 

The game that had meaning in spades was Planescape: Torment.

Mask of the Betrayer also came close, but the substance was less fundamental.

 

I can still remember how absolutely floored I was the first time I spoke to Ravel, how clever and righteous I felt when I convinced Trias to repent and how fulfilling and rewarding it felt when I examined the bronze sphere at the end.

 

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Better character equipment design. Reducing the amount of equipment slots I have does not make me very happy. Particularly with every new installation of Elder Scrolls games I have access to less and less. Developing my character and piecing together an impressive suit of armor is something that should be rewarding. Having my character carve out his fame with an iron chest piece, leather pants, fur boots, a right steel gauntlet and a hat is one of the most entertaining aspects of my character development. Also having the choice of being a "Battle Mage" with a robe and ebony accents like a single pauldron and gauntlets is something I want very much.

 

I guess I could just say more choices in fashion please! :sorcerer:

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Single-player RPG with not just non-linearity, but with true branching storylines, kinda like VNs.

 

Most non-linear RPGs follow the formula of slightly different events during the course of the story depending on player choices and then comes the choice that affects the ending right before the "final boss" and those endings are usually not that different, most of them end with "final boss" defeated and one in which player joins "team bad guys". You still go from point A to point B. Even Witcher 2, that fancies itself a game with branching story still follows that formula: no matter who you side with, you still have to go to Loc Muinne in chapter 3.

 

Let's take Skyrim for example. You can be thane of every hold and head of every guild. "Realistically" that can't happen. What if you could choose only one home and one career? What if guild story arcs were more polished with their own twists and turns and friends/love interests and took about 10 hours to complete?

 

Whoa. That's a very good point, really. But it's hard to make such a game. Writing one really exciting storyline is a big deal itself, but writing five or six of them at the same time?.. That can be done, actually, I think Obsidian is one of the very few studios that can really do such a thing, but it would require far more time and much bigger budget to make different content for each storyline. I doubt such a project could be funded on Kickstarter. And even more I doubt that there is game publisher on our planet willing to sponsor one.

 

As for me, I miss well written stories with narrowed characters and a dose of philosophy. I know I'm not the first saying this and not even the one thousand first but it really would be great if game not only gave you some fun but made you think about something... spiritually important. Well, I think everybody understood which specific game I'm referring to.

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Last night, Baldur's gate; Area where Gorion gets killed.  Bear shows as blue til you're relatively close (within sling range).

I still wouldn't call that "up to" the bear, :)

 

IDK, I'd call "got within 30 feet" as "walked up to it" (30' seems a realistic distance for a bear to get angry with you) :).  Although, yeah, I could see "it gets spooked and runs away" happening too.

 

I'd like to see bits where you can make things go faster -> like in P&P RPGs.  Nothing major, but having to fight with the pathfinding AI because getting stuck behind a building is actually "faster" than walking around the stables is a pain.  Not to mention having to traverse the same stretch of ground 57 times because the arms & armor merchant is over here, but the temple (for potions, priest scrolls) is over there, and the mage's tower (arcane scrolls, wondrous items, etc.) is way over there... 

Edited by neo6874

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Whoa. That's a very good point, really. But it's hard to make such a game. Writing one really exciting storyline is a big deal itself, but writing five or six of them at the same time?.. That can be done, actually, I think Obsidian is one of the very few studios that can really do such a thing, but it would require far more time and much bigger budget to make different content for each storyline. I doubt such a project could be funded on Kickstarter. And even more I doubt that there is game publisher on our planet willing to sponsor one.

 

 

There are a few japanese RPGs that have true branching storylines, not just non-liearity, but unfotunately at their core they are more of VNs with RPG gimmick.

 

If we are not talking cinematic quality here, there is no need for big budget. Even 2d SNES-style graphics would be enough as long as every branch of the story is well written and gameplay doesn't come down to simply runnig around from dugeon to dugeon fighting monsters.

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Philosophy.

 

I want my choices to be based on my character's values. I want to talk to companions and NPCs and feel like there is "meat" to the quandary.

 

Yeah, I would also really like if characters (NPC or party) acted upon you if they think you're an a-hole. You know, actually putting what they believe into action, like real people do? There's few scenes in Dragon Age Origins where you can can straight up MURDER people who pose no threat to you, without trial or anything. As you do this, your companions just stand there like choads. You get a big "ALISTAIR DOESN'T LIKE THIS" message, but that's it. If you give Alistair gifts, or agree with him in conversations, you can restore a positive opinion with him, even though you're actively contradicting every single value he holds dear. He should at least make an attempt to restrain you when you freak out. Even in Baldur's Gate, characters would leave if they thought you were a murderous psychopath or a goody-goody champion of the meek, but if you committed random acts of kindness and evil, everyone would like you. That's not pragmatism, that's retarded.

 

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There are a few japanese RPGs that have true branching storylines, not just non-liearity, but unfotunately at their core they are more of VNs with RPG gimmick.

 

 

If we are not talking cinematic quality here, there is no need for big budget. Even 2d SNES-style graphics would be enough as long as every branch of the story is well written and gameplay doesn't come down to simply runnig around from dugeon to dugeon fighting monsters.

 

jRPG is a little different theme, it's almost separate genre. Japanese are weird guys from our point of view and they were always tend to storytelling in their games rather than gameplay. I think it's their habit or, speaking politely, tradition. On the other hand, eastern gamedevs are tend to put only one idea in one game (if put any at all) and focus on gameplay instead. So players just got used to it and don't ask for anything else, except for few like yourself, and it just doesn't make sense for developers to push themselves and write multiple stories for one game. They would better make a series of games from multiple stories, or bunch of spin-offs. Besides, one truly exciting story, linear or not, can outcome "true branching" story written in a rush in almost every way.

 

Of course, it's all just my personal opinion and nothing more.

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Besides, one truly exciting story, linear or not, can outcome "true branching" story written in a rush in almost every way.

 

 

I agree. Any strory that is thoroughly written and thought through from all angles is gonna be good. But it does not have to be made into RPG game. I can be made into a movie, TV series or even a book. I'm sure everyone has their own favorites in those categories.

 

The difference is games make the player directly involved in what's happening. Most of them force already premade decisions that could infuence the outcome and put words in protagonist's mouth (things the player often does not agree with) instead of giving the option to choose your own path. In the end all player is left with is a level full of monsers and a final boss to defeat. Since the player is already involved, he/she should be involved all the way, not just cleaning up the mess. Otherwise there is no need to make an RPG, just movie is enough. 

 

it just doesn't make sense for developers to push themselves and write multiple stories for one game.

 

 

It should or they are going to lose customers. I don't even buy linear RPGs anymore, they are no fun. Inability to influence events or anything really is simply frustrating. Just grind, gather loot and defeat the final boss. No, thanks. Done it all before many-many-many times.

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It should or they are going to lose customers. I don't even buy linear RPGs anymore, they are no fun. Inability to influence events or anything really is simply frustrating. Just grind, gather loot and defeat the final boss. No, thanks. Done it all before many-many-many times.

 

 

It occurs to me you kinda misinterpreted terms then. "Grind, gather loot, kick bosses' arses" sounds like typical Diablo-style game to me, and Diablo IS NOT AN RPG and never was one. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game and I love it very much, but it pisses me off when someone calls Diablo role-playing. It is action/adventure perfectly designed for rest playing with the brain switched off. So put aside MMOs, they have nothing to do with the story. Put aside countless Diablo-clones (you generally spoke about them, didn't you?). What will remain? Games PoE aiming at exactly. There are very few of such games, but they do exist, and they don't need true-branching story to get people playing them over and over again with exciting. I agree that such a story would be an advantage for them, but it's not essential.

 

As for losing customers, gamedevs aren't going to lose many customers for this reason. I don't mean to offend you, but your kind of tastes are somewhat rare among the gamers. Most of them (us) are okay with a story whatever it is, linear, branching or pseudo-branching, if it is well written. Sadly there aren't well written stories in games nowadays too! Witcher you have spoken off based on the book of pan Sapkovsky entirely, and this game has reasonably good story only because book author took great part in its design.

Edited by Yellow Rabbit

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It occurs to me you kinda misinterpreted terms then. "Grind, gather loot, kick bosses' arses" sounds like typical Diablo-style game to me, and Diablo IS NOT AN RPG and never was one. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game and I love it very much, but it pisses me off when someone calls Diablo role-playing. It is action/adventure perfectly designed for rest playing with the brain switched off. So put aside MMOs, they have nothing to do with the story. Put aside countless Diablo-clones (you generally spoke about them, didn't you?).

 

 

Again, that's exactly my point. Sadly, most of the developers (even japanese ones) nowadays seem convinced that this is the right RPG formula. They could not be further from the truth.

 

 

What will remain? Games PoE aiming at exactly. There are very few of such games, but they do exist, and they don't need true-branching story to get people playing them over and over again with exciting. I agree that such a story would be an advantage for them, but it's not essential.

 

 

And I'm pretty sure I've played them all since these are the only kind I play nowadays. However, as wrote in my first post, they have non-linear, but not true branching stories. You still follow more-or-less the same path, no matter your decisions, from the biginning to one same final boss or crisis point. Along the way some of the events may change, but you are still generally going from point A to point B.

 

And here we go full-circle back to my first post:

 

I want to see a game with a branching storylines that lead to different  places, not just to one same final boss. Doesn't even need to be a good vs evil type of thing. Life as swordsman/soldier would be different from life as a mage/scholar - the people in your immidiate circle, the things that you do and want to do would be different. Not just doing an origin story, throwing you in the world, role-playing a couple of converstions and running to defeat the "final boss". Careers of the swordsman and the mage have to be totally different stories and totally different expiriences. TOR mmo attempted to do it, but it is a very bad example since aside from picking your faction and career at char setup, it still followed "from point A to point B" formula, but true branching storyline is impossible with mmos anyway.

 

Witcher you have spoken off based on the book of pan Sapkovsky entirely, and this game has reasonably good story only because book author took great part in its design.

 

 

I've been criticising it, actually.

 

As for losing customers, gamedevs aren't going to lose many customers for this reason.

 

 

Well, they've already lost one. If RPG developers stick to the same old, sooner or later thay are going to lose others. The same formula with improved graphics won't work forever especially with all the competion on the market, including indie devs, some of which can literally give those "pros" a run for their money.

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How to pick only one thing when there are so many things you have missed? =p

 

Well I think there are loads of great opinions here already, and I could easily choose one of them, but.... Just to say something different that I have been missing other than Arcanum 2...

 

I would say I would really love to see a new rpg (that has you to create several party members, like icewind dale series) have the ability for you to choose them a voice and kind of a personality like you can do in Wizardry 8. If you do not know what kind of customization for voices that game has you really should check it out, that alone made the game so much more repayable. Even when you created all of your party members, they still felt like personalities, and it was fun hearing them comment during your travel on different things.

If there is going to be rpg game where you create more than one main character, I really really really would love to see that.... Or actually hear.

 

And as said otherwise there's so many things I have personally missed that I could really be creating a long list here, but I think there's already been a lot of great points here before too.

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Overall, I just want a good engaging story where my choices make a significant impact. 

 

Oh, that and the ability to pause at any time.  If I can't pause the game it'll rarely get played.

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A thoroughly tested RPG that doesn't ship with a million bugs.

 

I'm hoping the QA staff that got hired at Obsidian find all the bugs so they can be fixed and the game shipped properly.

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A thoroughly tested RPG that doesn't ship with a million bugs.

 

I'm hoping the QA staff that got hired at Obsidian find all the bugs so they can be fixed and the game shipped properly.

 

A lot of backers will be in the early beta test for the game so i suspect that final bug count will be minimal at the release. Just look how long WL2 is getting delayed because of this kind of testing and KS approach, and backers do not have much problem with that (at least I get this feeling). If I am not mistaken, originally WL2 should be released in 2013 and its not going to happen ;)

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Well, they've already lost one. If RPG developers stick to the same old, sooner or later thay are going to lose others.

 

Not a chance. Gamedevs make games people want (e.g. buy) from them, not the contrary. One person in the scale of industry means nothing. There are very few people like you demanding really exciting story. There are not much people like me demanding reasonably exciting story. Most of the people demands something with next-gen graphics and as simple in gameplay ways as possible, nothing more. So developers just need to work out something like Skyrim and they will have profit. So they do. Time is changing, people don't. Even PoE wouldn't exist without great passion of Obsidian guys for making games of such type (for that they will have my eternal appreciation) and possibilities of crowdfunding.

 

It seems to me I've already said a bit too much, so I'm going to shut up for a while. I would be happy if there was a game with the story you want. But I doubt that is going to happen. Cheers!  :thumbsup:

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And by the way The Stanley Parable, even if in no way a roleplaying game was a fun game kind of exploring the choice in games. Or how a narrator one point would say (do not want to say too much, so for not spoiling that game, but, saying below if you want to read)...

"Do you see, do you see that Stanley was already dead when he pressed start". Which as such is true, because there is still the path laid out for you, even if you have the illusion of choice. So in fact all the possibly choices are already laid in front of your eyes. So how much choice do you actually have?

 

But as said there are million things I have been missing, I am just glad I am finally starting to get some of these aspects in new games, because there was a really dry time for me before regarding games.

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There are very few people like you demanding really exciting story. There are not much people like me demanding reasonably exciting story. Most of the people demands something with next-gen graphics and as simple in gameplay ways as possible, nothing more.

 

I'm going to disagree with this statement.  I think there are a lot of people demanding RPG's with a great story and I would point to the amount of highly funded kickstarters that promised just this as evidence.  You can even look to the mainstream games such as Bioshock and Mass Effect and their success to see how popular a good story can be (or Mass Effect 3's ending for how disappointed people can get when their story expectations are not met). 

 

I do agree publishers are too focused on the next-Gen graphics and games that can bring in hundreds of millions in revenue.  I think if a publisher opened a department willing to create lower budget (5-10 million dollar) rpg games that are well polished they could have a really popular (and lower risk) arm of business.  It would also allow them to have a side of their business that could create new brands with minimal risk instead of always having to expand on existing brands.

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Not a chance. Gamedevs make games people want (e.g. buy) from them, not the contrary.

 

 

Didn't get the meaning here...

 

 

Most of the people demands something with next-gen graphics and as simple in gameplay ways as possible, nothing more.

 

 

Sounds like shooters. We are discussing RPGs and we previosly agreed that Diablo, it's clones and MMOs don't belong in that category.

 

One person in the scale of industry means nothing.

 

 

 If RPG developers can't even statisfy one passionate fan of the core audience, how can they statisfy millions?

 

There are very few people like you demanding really exciting story.

 

 

My demands are hardly unique in this topic (you DID read it, right?) and completely reasonable. True branching storylines have been done for years in VN/RPG hybrids, just not in pure RPGs. Your opposition to the concept is rather confusing. Just watch some movies if you are stasfied with decent linear storylines, there is no need to ruin branching storyline RPG concept.

 

So developers just need to work out something like Skyrim and they will have profit. So they do.

 

 

No, they don't: Kingdoms of Amalur, Two Worlds, Risen...

 

I talked about Skyrim in different context (once again back to my first post):

 

Let's take Skyrim for example. You can be thane of every hold and head of every guild. "Realistically" that can't happen. What if you could choose only one home and one career? What if guild story arcs were more polished with their own twists and turns and friends/love interests and took about 10 hours to complete?

 

Not talking Skyrim-specific here (just took it as an example, since most people probably played it), but that's the kind of RPG I want to see: a game with a branching storylines that lead to different  places, not just to one same final boss. Doesn't even need to be a good vs evil type of thing. Life as swordsman/soldier would be different from life as a mage/scholar - the people in your immidiate circle, the things that you do and want to do would be different. Not just doing an origin story, throwing you in the world, role-playing a couple of converstions and running to defeat the "final boss". Careers of the swordsman and the mage have to be totally different stories and totally different expiriences. TOR mmo attempted to do it, but it is a very bad example since aside from picking your faction and career at char setup, it still followed "from point A to point B" formula, but true branching storyline is impossible with mmos anyway.

 

 

Time is changing, people don't.

 

 

 

Couldn't be further from the truth. For the sake of argument, lets say you played Super Mario Brothers (I have not followed Mario since N64, so we are talking fictional world here) as a kid on NES and you loved that game. Nintendo kept throwing remakes with extra levels, improved graphics etc at you and you were happy for a time. But as you grow up sooner or later you are gonna get bored. Nintendo keeps throwing spin-offs at you with different characters like Wario and supposedly different stories, but you go "Jeez, it's like I'm playing the same game every time, isn't there another one out there?" You switch to Sonic series and after a while realise that SEGA is doing the same thing. And now you either keep paying them (as you suggest to us) your hard earned money and they keep repeating the same mistakes, cause they get payed and they don't care OR you stop being their cash cow, go to their forums and tell them exactly what you want and stop paying them (not talking about myself and Osidian here, since they are one of the few pro developers I still support) until they smarten up, because new delepoers are slowly poping up, who have the right idea that gaming has to change, to evolve and maybe you start supporting them.

 

People DO change with the times and gaming does too.

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Geez, looks like we completely misunderstanding each other's points. I'll try to be a little more specific, but that gonna require more words. Oh my...

 

 

For the sake of argument, lets say you played Super Mario Brothers

...

People DO change with the times and gaming does too.

 

It would be stupid to argue with that argument of yours, so I won't do this. And never did, surprisingly, you just got my point a little wrong. I'll try to explain. 

 

RPG genre became a mainstream not so long ago. What does completely ordinary guy want from RPG-game? He realizes that there must be some story, maybe big one, some quests, some fighting and stuff like that, but he doesn't like reading or figuring things out, he just wants some fun for his money. Maybe it would be better for him to choose shooter or something else in that case, but he doesn't want it, he was told that RPGs are cool games for real men, so he starts the game and gets bored with it in a few minutes because it's accidentally turned out that game's name is Planescape:Torment. And most of the people are of this type. You can say that such games are meant for people of the other type, and there is indeed a lot of people enjoying such games, there's plenty of them, and yet they're just minority. Majority doesn't like thinking while playing, and this is never going to change. That's what I was talking about. They don't want to think but still want to play RPG, they don't realize this genre requires brain using from player, and developers have to satisfy their needs for the sake of business. All for player's comfort, and genre's classic can go to hell, it's too old anyway.

 

That's why we have terrific hybrids of seemingly good ideas (attempt to give something worthy to "core audience") with drastic simplifications that kills all impression. Skyrim, for example. Or Dragon Age 2. It is likely that gamedevs don't like what they're doing themselves, but they haven't any other options, they must make games that are able to get sold to majority. So it's useless to wait real RPG-game from big studios nowadays, they don't want to risk their money with niche project.

 

And there are indie developers. They don't make game for money, they make game because they want to make a game, and they can afford to make niche game, but they're not professionals and can hardly provide quality we're used to. They have plenty of ideas and trying to get sponsors here and there, but usually fails.

 

That's why I'm incredibly happy with Pillars of Eternity and Tides of Numenera. It's so good that professionals still want to make games like this and niche audience are able to fund its creation, even if they are just minority.

 

Phew... There's a lot of letters up there, huh? I'm sorry for that. Just got a little too excited. But there must be some sense in all of this somewhere. And I'm sorry about mistakes I could've made, I'm still not good with English.

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