InExile is plotting to ruin Torment by making it turn-based

[IndiraLightfoot]

BruceVC: In a sense, you're absolutely right, as they are full-on built on turn-based PnP RPGs.

 

And I went over to the site just now, and read through all the arguments, especially weighing in InXile's pros and cons, and my vote landed on turn-based.

It's a very tight race right now, so keep voting folks!

[BruceVC]

BruceVC: In a sense, you're absolutely right, as they are full-on built on turn-based PnP RPGs.

 

And I went over to the site just now, and read through all the arguments, especially weighing in InXile's pros and cons, and my vote landed on turn-based.

It's a very tight race right now, so keep voting folks!

 

I agree, I did the same thing and read the official definitions and what they mean  for the game. I still voted for Turn-Based

 

Indira its clear "great minds think alike" in our case

[nikolokolus]

Replaying Temple of Elemental Evil right now. Man, talk about the best implementation of D&D in a CRPG ... Sure it's not some sprawling, epic story-line, but holy crap I forgot just how good the fights are in this game.

 

As for Torment being TB or RTwP, I don't care much one way or the other. But saying that Torment should be RTwP because the original game was done that way misses a very important point - Planescape Torment's combat was easily the weakest part of that game.

 

Off-hand I can think of a couple of reasons why turn-based fits better with Torment's design philosophy:

1. Focus on a narrative driven game with few, but meaningful combat encounters. RtWP could really muck up pacing in a game like that. With turn-based there would be less incentive to fill it up with trash-mob encounters to stretch out the gameplay.

 

2. It's supposedly going to be a very text heavy game where combat will probably not be at the center of the experience. Turn-based would seem to reinforce a "cerebral" game, where RtWP seems like a better fit for a game that is more geared for fast and furious combat as its centerpiece.

[BruceVC]

Just a call to action for any Project Eternity backers who also backed Torment. You better go checkout Torment: Tides of Numenera's Kickstarter page so that you can vote down the hordes of ToEE and Fallout fans who are trying to vote the game into being turn based instead of RTWP.

 

I know I wouldn't have backed it if I'd thought there were the remotest chance in hell of it being a turn-based game and I suspect a lot of Infinity Engine game lovers will feel the same way.

 

So I just thought I'd bring it up here on the off chance it helps turn out the vote a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And needless to say, if you actually would want a turn-based system, DON'T VOTE.  (Please?)

 

Sorry to do exactly what you asked us not to do but I did support this game through KS and I needed to vote for what I felt was the correct direction for the game, but I do feel bad as if it wasn't for your post I wouldn't have known about this poll

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I also voted turn-based, stupid question but why wouldn't you want turn-based?

 

Aren't all classic IE games and the original Planescape turn-based and those really worked well ?

 

No, all the classic IE games and Planescape Torment are RTwP. They are not turn-based.

 

So you don't know the difference and thought the previous games were turn-based? And therefore voted turn-based? wow.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Just a call to action for any Project Eternity backers who also backed Torment. You better go checkout Torment: Tides of Numenera's Kickstarter page so that you can vote down the hordes of ToEE and Fallout fans who are trying to vote the game into being turn based instead of RTWP.

 

I know I wouldn't have backed it if I'd thought there were the remotest chance in hell of it being a turn-based game and I suspect a lot of Infinity Engine game lovers will feel the same way.

 

So I just thought I'd bring it up here on the off chance it helps turn out the vote a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And needless to say, if you actually would want a turn-based system, DON'T VOTE.  (Please?)

 

Sorry to do exactly what you asked us not to do but I did support this game through KS and I needed to vote for what I felt was the correct direction for the game, but I do feel bad as if it wasn't for your post I wouldn't have known about this poll

 

 Same here, I'm afraid! Hehe, you shot yourself in the foot with this topic, as you brought attention to the vote for all that also would like turn-based, and there are plenty here, I think, who agrees with Niko's oh so valid points just mentioned above!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hiro: See my reply - in-engine, they were turn-based all the way. They are D&D-games, after all. No need to be snarky!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Hiro: See my reply - in-engine, they were turn-based all the way. They are D&D-games, after all. No need to be snarky!

 

 

They're RTwP games. Just because something is in the engine doesn't make it a turn based game.

[BruceVC]

 

I also voted turn-based, stupid question but why wouldn't you want turn-based?

 

Aren't all classic IE games and the original Planescape turn-based and those really worked well ?

 

No, all the classic IE games and Planescape Torment are RTwP. They are not turn-based.

 

So you don't know the difference and thought the previous games were turn-based? And therefore voted turn-based? wow.

 

 

Hiro if you carry on being cheeky I'll put you over my knee and give you a good spanking...you naughty boy !!!

 

But I did read the InExile definitions and I still voted turn-based...can you forgive me  

 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hiro: It's two systems clashing. The IE games were built on turn-based PnP D&D. Turns are at the core of the game system there. Most stuff revolves around that. You wouldn't be able to play BG, IWD or NWN games, if they weren't turn-based. The devs went to great lengths simulating your RT experience in combat in those games, but it's all for show, really. Like it or not, they are indeed turn-based games, disguised as RTwP, "Pause" being "act or let your party die" in certain situs.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hiro: It's two systems clashing. The IE games were built on turn-based PnP D&D. Turns are at the core of the game system there. Most stuff revolves around that. You wouldn't be able to play BG, IWD or NWN games, if they weren't turn-based. The devs went to great lengths simulating your RT experience in combat in those games, but it's all for show, really. Like it or not, they are indeed turn-based games, disguised as RTwP, "Pause" being "act or let your party die" in certain situs.

 

It's not about the engine. It's how you play the game. Rhetorical question. What is the default setting of the IE games? Turn-based or RTwP?  Answer: RTwP.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Hiro if you carry on being cheeky I'll put you over my knee and give you a good spanking...you naughty boy !!!

 

But I did read the InExile definitions and I still voted turn-based...can you forgive me

 

 

Definitions are pretty clear to me. They even list the IE games under RTwP.

[IndiraLightfoot]

^{Hiro: We're just pulling your leg here. Of course, BG, IWD and NWN were RTwP, speaking game lingo. But the point about them also being turn-based D&D-wide is a valid and quite important one. Believe me, I have modded a few myself. You could say that RTwP with D&D-turns in-engine is a gimped RTwP.}

[Mor]

The IE games were built on turn-based PnP D&D. Turns are at the core of the game system there. Most stuff revolves around that. You wouldn't be able to play BG, IWD or NWN games, if they weren't turn-based.

To be fair at the core all games revolve around "turns", nothing is really executed in Real-Time. The real difference is that in RT you give your orders and watch their execution(others can respond or interrupt your actions). While in Turn-Base each players has a turn during which his orders executed without interruption.

 

So which system the values used in the system has been adapted from, has very little todo with how the system works. It doesn't matter if you take the number of tics from a pnp guide books, its about the action taking place simultaneously or in turns.

 

 

Edited.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mor

[BruceVC]

 

Hiro: It's two systems clashing. The IE games were built on turn-based PnP D&D. Turns are at the core of the game system there. Most stuff revolves around that. You wouldn't be able to play BG, IWD or NWN games, if they weren't turn-based. The devs went to great lengths simulating your RT experience in combat in those games, but it's all for show, really. Like it or not, they are indeed turn-based games, disguised as RTwP, "Pause" being "act or let your party die" in certain situs.

 

It's not about the engine. It's how you play the game. Rhetorical question. What is the default setting of the IE games? Turn-based or RTwP?  Answer: RTwP.

 

 

Hiro I don't think you understand the difference, that's fine we all get confused at times. Let me know if you want me to explain

[Messier-31]

Voted turn based

 

I voted turn-based.

 

Thanks for the heads-up. Voted turn-based.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I will make sure to vote Turn Based.

 

Well, this thread made an unexpected turn, didn't it?

 

Poor OP, must be pissed. If it will make you feel any better *I* didn't vote - probably because I'm no backer for Numenera, but hey, at least I tried. Democracy is a bitch.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Messier-31

[Jarmo]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'd kind of like Torment to be turn based, so went in to vote so.

But then decided I'm not strongly in favor of it anyway,

so ended up voting indifferent.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Hiro if you carry on being cheeky I'll put you over my knee and give you a good spanking...you naughty boy !!!

 

But I did read the InExile definitions and I still voted turn-based...can you forgive me

 

 

Definitions are pretty clear to me. They even list the IE games under RTwP.

 

 

Correct, but I only read the definitions after I made my original post. Hence the usage of the word "EDIT" 

[Mor]

Those definition above seem to be bit motivated by the developers choice. Sure its easier for them to adapt the system from wasteland2 and less time to bother with companions AIs. But the biggest difference between the two is whether the actions executed simultaneously or in turns.

 

Thoughtfulness? With all my love to Fallout its turn based system has nothing to Baldur's gate RTwP* and while ToEE offer some great options, IMO it is also really out of the ballpark for a story based game such Planescape torment. You'll need more than few encounters to learn the system, and I don't see how it can be achieved without greater focus on combat.

 

Edit:

* I don't know why its even brought up, other than being a popular series, since its system doesn't have multi-turn actions, so for example you'd never be able to interrupt a spell.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mor

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hiro I don't think you understand the difference, that's fine we all get confused at times. Let me know if you want me to explain

 

I do understand the difference. However, why don't you explain it to me considering it was you who said the IE games were turn based despite the contrary and the definitions on the inXile website.

[JFSOCC]

hmm, what was my password again?

 

Hey OP, for 10$ I'll vote rtwp, otherwise it's going to be turn based

[Rabain]

To me it just seems wrong to sell something as a spiritual successor to PST and then want to go turn-based because you are already developing a game that is turn based.

 

The combat in PST was something that wasn't great but it was part of the game and it wasn't bad because of RTwP.  I'd be pretty sure that PST would have a completely different feel if it was turn based and not necessarily better, I probably wouldn't have even played it if it was turn based.  I liked Fallout 1 and 2 but to be honest turn based always felt slow and boring to me.  

 

If the bad combat in PST is a reason to consider something different then InXile's desire to use Wasteland2's combat system is something to consider too.  That alone might end up making TToN's combat just as bad as PSTs.

 

InXile should consider giving Obsidian a call and seeing if they can borrow the RtwP from PE if they really need to save some time.  This is the kind of cross-company interaction that could benefit players.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Voted turn-based. The best games with tactical combat are turn-based, turn based combat is easier to accomplish well, and InXile are already making a turn based combat game.

 

The KickStarter campaign proposed a spiritual successor in terms of theme and emphasis on story, it did not promise anyone a combat system similar to Planescape: Torment, and I'm wondering whether anyone actually would want that.

[Infinitron]

Uh, a moderator should probably move this thread out of the PE forums.

 

Also, voted turn-based.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Infinitron

[BruceVC]

 

Hiro I don't think you understand the difference, that's fine we all get confused at times. Let me know if you want me to explain

 

I do understand the difference. However, why don't you explain it to me considering it was you who said the IE games were turn based despite the contrary and the definitions on the inXile website.

 

 

Of course I understand the difference. I can't believe you are even suggesting that I don't know, what an insult to my intelligence !!!

 

Turn based is like....mmm...ermmm...a turn in a game of checkers and RT with Pause is like...a.....a visit to the doctor when someone is before you and you need to wait...  

 

Anyway I am really busy at the moment and can't go into more details than that