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Why hate BioWare?

Since they went the good way with DA:O, then wringed it's little neck.

Cause they turned KOTOR into a MMO. And celebrated KOTOR's 10th birthday with an outright insult.

Cause they force MP into ME3, and see what good that had done.

 

Why hate BioWare?

Since it's a shimmer of the RPG-god it once was. Actually, there's barely any residue left. And with a RPG environment already thin in good titles, such a loss can be very painful.

 

There was shimmering of hope at the horizon, with DA:O, and they shattered in into a million pieces. Of course RPG-fans are upset with that.

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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ME3's multiplayer was legit the best part about it and I have no god damn idea how that happened. It's like that small part of the game fell through a portal from a bizarre alternate universe where great multiplayer-focused games are getting watered down by cynical, shoehorned single-player campaigns.

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With a game like DA2, I could've playtested that thing and told them what all the reviews would say before they even released it. And speaking of DA2... what could they POSSIBLY have put into the game that was worth re-using 15 environments 5 times a piece? Honestly, that just seems like bad planning. It's one thing to decide "Okay, we're going to re-use some interiors," like... a cave here, or a house there (houses could feasibly look VERY similar, anyway)... but to just suddenly say "Agh! We're gonna re-use EVERYTHING about seventy times!"? If they'd never made a game before, I'd maybe attribute that to the complexity and difficulty of video game production. But... come on...

It wasn't bad planning, it was an insanely short development cycle with an unreasonable sense of demand to push the game out the door.  I have no clue why they did it, but they made DA2 in like... a year and a half?  That isn't much time for a AAA budget RPG.  Hell it takes Square Enix like 5 years to make 1 numbered Final Fantasy it seems these days.  In fact I am willing to bet that PE has already had as much or even a slight bit more dev time than that.

 

Personally the Bioware hate on these forums is getting pretty old either way.  I am sorry their games sell well, I am sorry Mass Effect is going to be on pretty much every "top 10 games of the last decade" list for anyone whose opinion matters, and I am sorry Dragon Age 2 kinda sucked.  That said if Dragon Age 2 is the worst game they ever make.... they still have a better roster of games than 90% of other developers out there.

 

 

It's worth noting that Fallout: New Vegas had a very short development cycle as well; many aspects of its predecessor were largely improved (most notably: writing). And it could be argued that it's a much more complex game.

 

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As for the second paragraph - it's a classical example of argumentum ad populum.

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How is the relationship(if any) between Obsidian and Bioware employees anyway? No particular reason, just curious.

 

 

Most of the old-gaurd that started Bioware when Black Isle was publishing their stuff is long gone ... so who knows?

Every third Thursday they brawl in Oregon.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Why hate BioWare?

Since they went the good way with DA:O, then wringed it's little neck.

Cause they turned KOTOR into a MMO. And celebrated KOTOR's 10th birthday with an outright insult.

Cause they force MP into ME3, and see what good that had done.

 

Why hate BioWare?

Since it's a shimmer of the RPG-god it once was. Actually, there's barely any residue left. And with a RPG environment already thin in good titles, such a loss can be very painful.

 

There was shimmering of hope at the horizon, with DA:O, and they shattered in into a million pieces. Of course RPG-fans are upset with that.

I understand, but the you should ask yourself why is that the RPG scene is so thin in good titles? and why all the big publishers move from RPGs to ARPGs? For example take: Fallou3 and Fallout: New Vegas. I suspect that most people here will pick the later as the better title of the two, and yet iirc it also the one that sold least.

 

I suspect that you are familiar with supply and demand... and that your love and hate relationship is not with Bioware decisions, but with our own hopes and dreams hit by a brick wall of reality. IMHO Best thing for old school RPG's is a mid size publisher.

Edited by Mor
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I don't know if you include the many FO3 fans, who never played the originals, and was less than happy about the title. However, I doubt that you are trying to claim that games such as FO3:NV are at least as profitable as FO3, in light of what we seen in the AAA RPG market in the last decades. But, who knows maybe everyone got it wrong.

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I suspect that you are familiar with supply and demand... and that your love and hate relationship is not with Bioware decisions, but with our own hopes and dreams hit by a brick wall of reality. IMHO Best thing for old school RPG's is a mid size publisher.

Actually, it's BioWare who should have seen the brick wall of reality I hope. What with DA2 sales plummeting so rapdily after word got out it was total ****.

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Are you kidding. Dragon Age: Origins was terrible - that and the original Neverwinter Nights were two of the most disappointing games I have ever played.

 

Yeah. Let's add Icewind Dale to the mix, and you pretty much have my personal top 3.

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Are you kidding. Dragon Age: Origins was terrible - that and the original Neverwinter Nights were two of the most disappointing games I have ever played.

 

Yeah. Let's add Icewind Dale to the mix, and you pretty much have my personal top 3.

 

ok, i add Icewind Dale to this mix. Story in this game is good, but gameplay is terrible due huge amount of boring combats. Combat's are bad (stupid AI, cheats, routine) in all  games with Infinity Engine,  but gameplay in IWD  consists only in combats.

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I suspect that you are familiar with supply and demand... and that your love and hate relationship is not with Bioware decisions, but with our own hopes and dreams hit by a brick wall of reality. IMHO Best thing for old school RPG's is a mid size publisher.

Actually, it's BioWare who should have seen the brick wall of reality I hope. What with DA2 sales plummeting so rapdily after word got out it was total ****.

 

Hope is a good thing ;)
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Are you kidding. Dragon Age: Origins was terrible - that and the original Neverwinter Nights were two of the most disappointing games I have ever played.

 

Yeah. Let's add Icewind Dale to the mix, and you pretty much have my personal top 3.

 

 

You poor soul.

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Are you kidding. Dragon Age: Origins was terrible - that and the original Neverwinter Nights were two of the most disappointing games I have ever played.

 

Yeah. Let's add Icewind Dale to the mix, and you pretty much have my personal top 3.

 

 

You poor soul.

 

 

Personal top 3 disappointments, if that was somehow unclear   :)

Edited by aluminiumtrioxid

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Ehh, DAO was pretty meh. Okay combat system, forgettable plot, generally poor encounter design, and a few good ideas that never really come to fruition. I find it passable with Combat Tweaks and a few mods to improve tactics, but the underlying problems still remain. I probably would have picked up a sequel if they had made a better combat system and included a better toolset.

 

However, it did sell well, so BW logically should have tweaked the original formula and put out a similar sequel. Don't know why they didn't, and don't really care. SWTOR was a poor substitute to a KOTOR3 and ME went from meh to **** with ME2.

 

On Topic: PE will likely have a few problems, but I think the combat system will be better designed than BW games, and the writing team assembled is fantastic, so I see little chance of PE being a cluster****.

 

...

 

What?

This is the appropriate response to all of Mor's posts.

Edited by KaineParker

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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It was. Gotcha.

 

Mine were

 

Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age: Origins, Diablo 3 and Mass Effect 3. Never buying another Blizzard or Bioware game, ever again.

 

Lol I actually liked Mass Effect 2. The combat was worse, but the cinematic side was improved IMO.

 

ME1 def had the best combat of all ME games, in the first game I got a shock reflex unscoped sniper shot from quite a fair distance away like I was playing Call of Duty 2, I was like AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!111 So good haha. ME1 had more maneuvering and moving around. ME2 went really big on the popamole, unfortunately.

 

All ME games have really horrible default mouse movement, requires a lot of tweaks to remove the horrible input lag and mouse smoothing.

Edited by Sensuki
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Ehh, DAO was pretty meh. Okay combat system, forgettable plot, generally poor encounter design, and a few good ideas that never really come to fruition. I find it passable with Combat Tweaks and a few mods to improve tactics, but the underlying problems still remain. I probably would have picked up a sequel if they had made a better combat system and included a better toolset.

 

However, it did sell well, so BW logically should have tweaked the original formula and put out a similar sequel. Don't know why they didn't, and don't really care.

 

 

Couldn't agree more, including the last sentence! DAO is far too often described as if it were a god-awful game, when it is actually pretty decent, albeit a let-down, for many reasons: It was far from the quality of BG2, it had no online persistent worlds capabilities a la NWN, and the toolset failed on many levels. It gets far too much hate, I reckon - and yes, I have been guilty too of hopping on the bandwagon sometimes. Well, it was bad enough for me not to buy DA2 - and I don't seem to have missed out, really.

 

IWD and ToEE, I think, must be taken for what they are: hack-n-slash, build interesting D&D parties games, and they are very good from that perspective.

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Icewind Dale has great atmosphere and environment art. Exploration within the levels is pretty good (despite the linearity). The combat overall is pretty easy, Malavon is the only fight I found 'tough'. The writing and story is a lot better than Icewind Dale 2 IMO.

 

There's not *too* many memorable encounters.

 

Off the top of my head - there's those trapped chests in Kresselack's Tomb which lock your thief inside a room with Skeletons for a period of time which can catch you out (for a mundane encounter).

 

The encounter with the Imbued Wights on the bottom of that can get a bit hairy if you're low on resources.

 

Dragon's Eye has those Priest chicks, the Bombardier Beetles, Presio and her zombies and then I have to say I enjoyed Yxzunomei's bottom level very much.

 

Some of the Shattered Hand encounters were okay, the ones where you clear the elf tower had some okay ones and some of the undead ones (with the Bone Reavers or whatever they're called) were alright as well.

 

Dorn's Deep also had a couple, but yeah the scale is REALLY low compared to the other games (BG2 for example).

Edited by Sensuki
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Icewind dale will always have a special place in my heart simply because of the awesomeness of Trials of the Luremaster, which Black Isle gave us for Free.

 

It was *free*. Yet it gave us a better story and better dungeon design than Heart of Winter

Edited by Stun
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Icewind dale will always have a special place in my heart simply because of the awesomeness of Trials of the Luremaster, which Black Isle gave us for Free.

 

It was *free*.

 

And much longer than most paid DLCs.

Edited by Karranthain
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