UK Muslims targeted for speaking out about terror

[Rostere]

Are you funting asleep?

 

These radicals <sic> are not immigrants. They are the sons and grandsons of immigrants.

 

Frequently the parents are quite nice, hard working people.

 

Consequently, none of your countermeasures apply.

 

Indeed, you would expect people who have paid a small fortune to smuggle themselves to a distant foreign nation to be hard-working, ambitious and respectful of the culture in their new home countries.

 

Still, I don't see how whether they have personally recently immigrated should be the only deciding factor. Surely anyone who holds citizenship in another nation can be deported?

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

[Walsingham]

In essence I do believe a lot of this was our own fault, we had mass migration and had seemingly no limits upon it and more importanatly no infrastructure to absorb it. Migrants barely speaking English were dropped off in grim northern towns, allready hard pressed by economic downturn, and with local populations who barely travelled and were not particularly friendly to each other never mind complete strangers from half a world away. Thus began the formation of ghettos and slums where unemployment and crime ran extremely high, and there was no integration.

 

A seemingly perfect breeding ground for radicalisation. I'm not trying to make excuses for the young men and women who choose to commit atrocities in the name of their non existent god, merely saying that we set up a perfect breeding ground for such behaviour, and now unfortunately we're stuck with it. One would agree however that the brave Muslim men and women who speak put against fundamentalism are the future hopefully, otherwise old Mr Powell may have been right, which nobody in their right mind wants.

 

I also agree. Whatever your stance on immigration from countries with developmental issues, it is just common sense to acknowledge that those immigrants have particular needs for integration and support in getting settled.

 

Probably my biggest bugbear with the Left in the UK, is not their helping the poor. It's their helping the poor so poorly.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

[Walsingham]

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

I could be wrong, but my feeling is that I've never had my own culture cheapened by a respect for (for example) Sikhs.

 

Any more than my like of red cheapens green.

[Hurlshort]

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

That's not accurate at all.  Multiculturalism works best when all cultures are being respected and celebrated by everyone in the community.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

I could be wrong, but my feeling is that I've never had my own culture cheapened by a respect for (for example) Sikhs.

 

Any more than my like of red cheapens green.

 

I don't have anything against Sikhs, but if they refused to participate in the surrounding culture, that would be ultimately be harmful both to them and the nation. I don't see multiculturalism as merely the retention of certain cultural aspects which are not in conflict with the prevalent culture, I don't see why anyone but hardcore racists would be opposed to that. I understand multiculturalism as a refusal to assimilate into the prevalent culture.

[Tsuga C]

...otherwise old Mr Powell may have been right, which nobody in their right mind wants.

When you invite the Third World in mass, you de facto become the Third World with all of its violence and social pathologies. Enoch's words were prescient and, were he alive and well today, I'd place him in charge of all issues concerning immigration and immigrants. It's simply time to deport all the non-Western rabble and shoot those who offer any resistance.

 

I don't hate Arabs in the Middle East, Hispanics south of the Rio Grande River, or Asians in Asia etc., but when they emigrate to the West and cling to the ways and mores of their country of origin while denigrating their newly adopted country my blood boils. Had I my druthers, they'd be shown no mercy. Well it would be to rid the West of the lot of them. We've already let too many of them in already here in the USA.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Hurlshort]

 

 

I could be wrong, but my feeling is that I've never had my own culture cheapened by a respect for (for example) Sikhs.

 

Any more than my like of red cheapens green.

 

I don't have anything against Sikhs, but if they refused to participate in the surrounding culture, that would be ultimately be harmful both to them and the nation. I don't see multiculturalism as merely the retention of certain cultural aspects which are not in conflict with the prevalent culture, I don't see why anyone but hardcore racists would be opposed to that. I understand multiculturalism as a refusal to assimilate into the prevalent culture.

 

 

Using the word assimilate always conjures images of the Borg for me.  

 

WoD aren't you in Texas?  Aren't you surrounded by a combination of Mexican, Native American, and Cowboy culture on a regular basis?  Which one is prevalent?

 

edit:  Tsuga, it's easy to just say get rid of the rabble, but it's pretty tricky to siphon out just the bad immigrants from the good.  Unless you are talking about closing the borders for good, in which case you don't understand how our economy works.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Hurlshot

[licketysplit]

 

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

That's not accurate at all.  Multiculturalism works best when all cultures are being respected and celebrated by everyone in the community.

 

 

And...where has this happened?

[Wrath of Dagon]

WoD aren't you in Texas?  Aren't you surrounded by a combination of Mexican, Native American, and Cowboy culture on a regular basis?  Which one is prevalent?

Native American and Cowboy culture? Lol, you don't know much about Texas. But yeah, we'll be part of Mexico again soon enough, you think that's a great thing? Nothing against Mexicans, but if I wanted to live in Mexico I'd move there.

[Walsingham]

I'm pretty sure Enoch is stilL very much alive. Isn't he?

 

edit:

 

Separate and distinct to me sounds like apartheid. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

When I've been travelling I don't compromise who I am ( I hope). Yet I equally try to display mutually agreeable sides to my culture. So, I have found myself capable of honouring and being honoured in kraals and cabanas and working men's clubs alike.

 

If I am talking to a Sikh elder I would refer to values of defending the weak. If he were to assert - for whatever reason - a view that women were automatically weak, then I would endeavour to persuade him that they were not by examples or by logic.

 

Each and every culture I've dealt with has points in common with the others. I haven't worked on a single list of these. But they do exist.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Walsingham

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

That's not accurate at all.  Multiculturalism works best when all cultures are being respected and celebrated by everyone in the community.

 

 

And...where has this happened?

 

 

All over the US?  I work at a school with any religion and ethnic group you could name.  Sikhs and Muslims, Persians and Jews, Japanese and Koreans, Indians and Pakistanis.  You name it, we got it.  They keep their cultures and traditions, I get a wide selection of dining choices.

 

edit:  For a bigger example, you can look at how Mexican-Americans thrive all over the US, or how Vietnamese-Americans adjusted after coming over in large numbers after the Vietnam War.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Rostere]

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

In my definition, multiculturalism implies full intermixture of the cultures in question. I don't really understand your statement at all. I think you're talking about some form of cultural apartheid. Multiculture is not where one homogeneous culture assimilates another homogeneous culture. Multiculturalism is where the meeting of two cultures allows intermixture where both access the full heritage of each other.

 

Of course, the Swedish culture will never be exactly the same as before, but neither will that of the immigrants. The point of multiculturalism is to achieve an internationally connected and extrovert ("cosmopolitan") society, which will augment relations (business and diplomatic) with foreign countries, accelerate the flow of ideas, make a potential hub for multinational companies and organizations, in a society which is ideally suited to make full use of the ever-increasing interconnectedness we see in the world today.

 

Through the connections with people from other parts of the world, I can have acute awareness of societies and events occuring anywhere. I can sit one minute and discuss the issue of Kurdish regional independence with my hairdresser who just a week ago was in Iraq caring for Kurdish Syrian refugees, the next hear first hand about recent changes to US society from an American stepmother. Then on TV I have a program where ambitious immigrants from South East Asia discuss recent changes, opportunities for business and investment in that region in Swedish. The multicultural society is a burgeoning meeting-place which is brimming with opportunities and inspiration for new expressions of art.

 

This is heavily emphasized also in education: Swedish children always learn at least three languages through school, and in secondary school there are lots of opportunities for learning multiple others. Exchange studies and more language studies are taken by a majority of engineering students where I live, in order to become a more valuable asset for multinational companies. Participation in humanitarian voluntary work in developing countries is very quickly becoming an important merit for business students hoping to gain vital experience in these countries before they work for companies establishing themselves there. Couple this with an almost perverse emphasis on international travel (which I admit I get sick of myself sometimes) where people think you must be poor and/or unambitious if you stay in Sweden during vacation. So multiculturalism is not an accidental circumstance - it is highly intentional and the focus of the entire goverment and society.

 

The opposite of a multicultural society would be where none of these connections would be available. You would only have the same people with the exact same background, incapable of learning or creating something truly new through exchanges with each other. Any type of exchange with other cultures would be tough due to the impossibility to bridge the differences. There would be none of the synergies or crucial connections which comes with a multicultural society. When abroad of meeting foreigners, monoculturalists would be unable to participate actively in the societies they visit and the exchange would be more akin to that between zoo animals and tourists than that between equal human beings. When people dismiss multiculturalism they don't often think about how horribly backwards and impossible the alternative would be. When you do so, opposing multiculturalism sounds about as futile as opposing science.

 

A lot of these thoughts are behind why I think that nationalism and intolerance are the most obviously outdated ideologies of the 21st century. When I said that I don't like the immigrants who won't accept our laws and culture, I meant the ones who refuse what is perhaps the core value of Swedish society - the tolerance, the will to include and accept, the appetite to take any element you like out from foriegn culture and make it your own; the paradigm of multiculturalism itself. That, in itself, is all that we must necessarily share in a multicultural world.

[licketysplit]

 

 

 

 

Once again I must say I'm very positive towards immigration and multiculturalism, but I don't like the elements who don't respect our laws and culture.

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Multiculturalism implies they don't have much use for your culture.

 

 

That's not accurate at all.  Multiculturalism works best when all cultures are being respected and celebrated by everyone in the community.

 

 

And...where has this happened?

 

 

All over the US?  I work at a school with any religion and ethnic group you could name.  Sikhs and Muslims, Persians and Jews, Japanese and Koreans, Indians and Pakistanis.  You name it, we got it.  They keep their cultures and traditions, I get a wide selection of dining choices.

 

edit:  For a bigger example, you can look at how Mexican-Americans thrive all over the US, or how Vietnamese-Americans adjusted after coming over in large numbers after the Vietnam War.

 

Well the glass is half full for you. My mother is an ESL teacher, and she can't say enough about how immigrants don't give a rat's ass about integrating, speaking English or embracing American culture. It's grab as grab can. If you think multiculturalism works, you are deluded. It has never fully worked, especially in modern times. Angela Merkel said it best: multiculturalism has utterly failed.

[Hurlshort]

 

Well the glass is half full for you. My mother is an ESL teacher, and she can't say enough about how immigrants don't give a rat's ass about integrating, speaking English or embracing American culture. It's grab as grab can. If you think multiculturalism works, you are deluded. It has never fully worked, especially in modern times. Angela Merkel said it best: multiculturalism has utterly failed.

 

 

 

My great grandmother was full blooded Italian.  My wife's dad is full blooded Mexican.  My wife has two grandparents that were full blooded French.  

 

My children dance ballet folklorico.  They attend Eid celebrations at local mosques.  We hang out with a family that runs a Japanese Grocery Store, and we go to Portuguese Crab Feeds with another.  Our babysitter has us over for dinners regularly, her mom only speaks Spanish and she makes the best salsa I have ever tasted anywhere.  My kids understand her perfectly.

 

Multiculturalism makes my world a beautiful place, if you don't think it works, I feel extremely sorry for you.  

 

 

 

Also German Chancellors don't have the best track record when it comes to multiculturalism, I'd hesitate to use that as your tagline.     

[NOK222]

My mother is an ESL teacher, and she can't say enough about how immigrants don't give a rat's ass about integrating, speaking English or embracing American culture.

 

And just what is american culture? 

 

This?

 

Because I'll embrace peyote and horse riding.

Edited October 20, 2013 by NKKKK

[Nonek]

Part of the reason why i'm personally more accepting of immigration is because as an Englishman I am one, allright my family were mentioned in the Domesday book and have been in England at least a millenia, but still this is rightfully the land of the indigenous stone age settlers who crossed the land bridge from the continent, and share a heritage with the Basque people of northern Spain.

 

Nothing against Denmark, but I don't want to go back there, i'm rather settled.

[licketysplit]

 

My mother is an ESL teacher, and she can't say enough about how immigrants don't give a rat's ass about integrating, speaking English or embracing American culture.

 

And just what is american culture? 

 

This?

 

Because I'll embrace peyote and horse riding.

 

 

For starters it's being fluent in English. Beyond that, I don't care what it is.

Edited October 21, 2013 by licketysplit

[NOK222]

 

 

For starters it's being fluent in English. Beyond that, i don;t care what it is.

 

To be fair, in God's country, English isn't the official language. We have no official language, unofficially it's English, but it's still unofficial. In fact two states have another language besides English which is part of the State's heritage or something. New Mexico and Louisiana. Take a guess at what the other language for those two states are. 

 

It's too late to try make it a official it at a Federal level as well. 

[licketysplit]

 

 

 

For starters it's being fluent in English. Beyond that, i don;t care what it is.

 

To be fair, in God's country, English isn't the official language. We have no official language, unofficially it's English, but it's still unofficial. In fact two states have another language besides English which is part of the State's heritage or something. New Mexico and Louisiana. Take a guess at what the other language for those two states are. 

 

It's too late to try make it a official it at a Federal level as well. 

 

 

Bull****. The least a person can do when immigrating here is learn the predominant language. That's English. Any other country expects the same.

Edited October 21, 2013 by licketysplit

[alanschu]

Just curious, any thoughts on learning the other language?

[licketysplit]

Just curious, any thoughts on learning the other language?

 

As soon as I move to another country, I'll learn that language. Hell, I'd even go out of my way to learn Canadian. It might take all the air out of my balls but I'd do it. 

Edited October 21, 2013 by licketysplit

[NOK222]

 

 

 

 

For starters it's being fluent in English. Beyond that, i don;t care what it is.

 

To be fair, in God's country, English isn't the official language. We have no official language, unofficially it's English, but it's still unofficial. In fact two states have another language besides English which is part of the State's heritage or something. New Mexico and Louisiana. Take a guess at what the other language for those two states are. 

 

It's too late to try make it a official it at a Federal level as well. 

 

 

Bull****. The least a person can do when immigrating here is learn the predominant language. That's English. Any other country expects the same.

 

But you first said to adapt completely to the culture, now just the language? Make up your mind. 

[alanschu]

 

 

As soon as I move to another country, I'll learn that language. Hell, I'd even go out of my way to learn Canadian. It might take all the air out of my balls but I'd do it.

 

After your previous diatribe towards me for failing to answer your question in a different thread, I find this response positively hilarious.

 

I'll take your answer as a "no."

 

 

Lets go on a journey with this.  Is it safe to say that you are a contributor to the "failure of multiculturalism?"

[ManifestedISO]

Hey, if you guys start moving goalposts again, do it over there out of the way ... trying to watch an epic regular season football game between real goalposts here.