About hate-mail and other online abuse.

[Malcador]

.....

 

And I'm posting this as a sort of public service announcement for civility and friendly debate.

 

.....

Doesn't make sense to me, though.

[Sarex]

Doesn't make sense to me, though.

 

It's a "what not to do" instruction for this board.

[Malcador]

Yeah, coming from essentially a nobody, big whoop.

[Sarex]

Yeah, coming from essentially a nobody, big whoop.

 

What does that have to do with anything? You are also, by that definition, a nobody, so I guess we should ignore you.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Sarex

[Chippy]

The latest Jimquisition deals with -Jennifer Hepler I think?- resigning because someone threatened her kids.  Just something to consider, I'm not making excuses for anyone, is that games have the potential to reach everyone on the planet and there are certain groups of people who only have a limited range of communication - anger management courses sometimes refer to the inarticulate person who has either 'silence or anger' - and in expressing anger, all they've got is "I'll kill you, your kids, etc" because it's all they've got - current high risk inner city gang members are a good example, it's rare that they make less than permanent threats; "I'm going to key your car and knife your tyres" isn't the kind of threat you'd get.

The other thing I don't think people bring up much is addiction.  Some of these reactions to developers changing a persons game is like what you'd get if you took a serious drug addicts gear away from them.  Doesn't change how disgusting it all is though.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...wow...good thing these bleedin' hearts wasna 'round on the ol' BIS boards, they'd 'ave been scarred fer Life...lads that work at Obsidz has thick skins, they can handle a bit o' shyte-slingin'...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Malcador]

 

Yeah, coming from essentially a nobody, big whoop.

 

What does that have to do with anything? You are also, by that definition, a nobody, so I guess we should ignore you.

 

If it were from a moderator then it'd have a reason for being in this forum (ultimately Infinitron's question) as a what to do, but considering the source of it, it's not a surprise. As it stands, was this subforum really awash with abusive posts and hate mail before hand to elicit this?

[JFSOCC]

 

just because it's the internet doesn't mean that one should just suck it up

The world is well populated with a large number of mentally unstable people. There is nothing any particular individual can do about that.

 

The problem I have with the sentiment of "it's the internet, grow a thicker skin" is that it casually dismisses the horrible things people say and do when there are no real repercussions for them.

And individually one such person could probably be handled. But some people have to deal with this every day, day in and day out.

And some handle it better than others, for sure.

 

But it is the callous indifference, the shrug of the "that's just internet culture, deal with it" that bothers me.

Just because it seems to be endemic doesn't excuse it, doesn't make it normal.

You don't treat others like that.

Regardless of how you feel about them, their work, their views.

There is no "He had it coming". Not for Phil Fish and not for someone else. Because such behaviour is ALWAYS inexcusable,

 

Because it's lazy. It's saying "it's not my problem" which is the mentality by which many great evils persist.

People get up in arms when I use the term victim blaming, because they don't like the victim.

But that's not my problem, I don't care if you like the victim or not, you simply don't send hate filled messages to others.

And yes, there are things we can do about it.

First and foremost, we cannot tolerate it when we see it, ever. We can't create an environment in which vitriol flourishes by turning a blind eye, shrugging our shoulders and saying "Oh well, it's not really ok, but the guy was a ****, and really, what can you expect, it's the internet."

Newsflash, it's people doing this, not an abstract like "the internet"

And clearly, it is affecting peoples lives.

 

AS for being a nobody. Well, yes. I am. But I'm a nobody whose thread somehow did manage to reach 7 pages with very little prompting from himself. I'm a nobody whose views are shared on a board where you too, are sharing your views. And it is the good debates which I will gladly continue, on small topics and big, with fellow nobodies like yourself. As for your dismissive terms like "nobody" or "bleeding heart", these are terms which you use because it is easier to marginalise the messenger than the message.

 

@Malcador, does the source of the post matter that much to you? So it wasn't by a moderator, if any had a problem with my thread it was well within their power for the past few weeks to close it.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JFSOCC

[Malcador]

It being of devoid of need, more than anything else, even considering this forum's nature.

[Agremont]

 

just because it's the internet doesn't mean that one should just suck it up

 

The world is well populated with a large number of mentally unstable people. There is nothing any particular individual can do about that. When you enter the public frame of reference you are in all likelihood going to attract the attentions of a small fraction of the pool. Is this fair? I don't know. I do know that world doesn't abide by any commonly accepted standard of "fair". 

 

Requiring that this not happen is like standing with our collective hands on our hips demanding an immediate cessation of all hostilities and a return to good cinema. 

 

 

So we should just accept it because it happens? What a terrible attitude to have,

 

Just because there are threatening idiots and always will be doesn't mean one shouldn't be allowed to speak up against them and their threats.

 

But yeah lets give the victims of that sort of crap a hard time instead. Makes sense.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Agremont

[rustypup]

Because it's lazy. It's saying "it's not my problem" which is the mentality by which many great evils persist. 

No. Because it's the healthy response. What exactly are you proposing here? "Cleaning up" or "policing" the internet? Really? 

 

 

Just because there are threatening idiots and always will be doesn't mean one shouldn't be allowed to speak up against them and their threats.

At no point was it suggested that we should tolerate it. Anywhere.

 

But getting our collective knickers in a knot of impotent hand-wringing accomplishes nothing. Hormone addled gits behave like hormone addled gits. Socially disruptive throwbacks relish negative responses.

 

You cannot win.

 

Accept this and ignore it *or* waste stomach lining and time fretting about it. Which is the correct approach? 

[Agremont]

 

At no point was it suggested that we should tolerate it. Anywhere.

 

But getting our collective knickers in a knot of impotent hand-wringing accomplishes nothing. Hormone addled gits behave like hormone addled gits. Socially disruptive throwbacks relish negative responses.

 

You cannot win.

 

Accept this and ignore it *or* waste stomach lining and time fretting about it. Which is the correct approach? 

 

 

The thing is, it isn't always ignorable. Unless you're suggesting getting off the internet and never using it again, or not using various social sites that you should be able to use without harassment.

 

I'd say the correct response varies. Some things are certainly better to ignore, others are difficult to do so.

 

Stop getting offended and just ignore doesn't cut it as an answer in some cases.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Agremont

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

You cannot win.

 

Accept this and ignore it *or* waste stomach lining and time fretting about it. Which is the correct approach? 

 

 

"You cannot win" is such a nebulous and ineffectual statement

 

Its not about winning, it never is. Its about doing the right thing and not accepting blatant rudeness and bigotry. Its about you posting your disapproval when someone is clearly offensive. Its not hard to do once you get use to it.

[Felonious]

Is this truly a problem here?  I understand that there are and should be limits to the abuse that people can get away with just because it is an internet message board, but you also do not want to curtail simple expression, a la the Bioware Social Network.

[rustypup]

not using various social sites that you should be able to use without harassment.

 

or... stop posting personally identifiable/trackable information in clear-text like some mindless dolt? ... It just makes it so much easier for the crazies to move from spouting brain-farts to acting out whatever cognitive dysfunction is assailing them. 

 

We've had the Internet for a while now. How is this not the default no.1 rule. Yet there we go, spamming every orifice of social media with the minutiae of our daily activities like some faceless, adoring audience out there is gagging to hear about our last meal, bowel obstruction or hedonistic binge whilst expecting nothing bad could possibly happen. 

 

It's like watching a someone hug a lion. The butt-hurt post the mauling is always so dramatic and completely divorced of context. 

 

 Its about you posting your disapproval when someone is clearly offensive. Its not hard to do once you get use to it.

First off, we are now completely OT.

 

Secondly, engaging trolls is the last thing we should do. 

 

You cannot win. Anyone who is actively displaying anti-social behavior is not going to play nice because you've taken the time to berate them. They've already demonstrated they lack any concept of social nicety, thus argument from decency is wasted effort. Given that this behavior is rarely self-correcting the *only* response is to ignore it. 

[BruceVC]

 

not using various social sites that you should be able to use without harassment.

 

or... stop posting personally identifiable/trackable information in clear-text like some mindless dolt? ... It just makes it so much easier for the crazies to move from spouting brain-farts to acting out whatever cognitive dysfunction is assailing them. 

 

We've had the Internet for a while now. How is this not the default no.1 rule. Yet there we go, spamming every orifice of social media with the minutiae of our daily activities like some faceless, adoring audience out there is gagging to hear about our last meal, bowel obstruction or hedonistic binge whilst expecting nothing bad could possibly happen. 

 

It's like watching a someone hug a lion. The butt-hurt post the mauling is always so dramatic and completely divorced of context. 

 

 Its about you posting your disapproval when someone is clearly offensive. Its not hard to do once you get use to it.

First off, we are now completely OT.

 

Secondly, engaging trolls is the last thing we should do. 

 

You cannot win. Anyone who is actively displaying anti-social behavior is not going to play nice because you've taken the time to berate them. They've already demonstrated they lack any concept of social nicety, thus argument from decency is wasted effort. Given that this behavior is rarely self-correcting the *only* response is to ignore it. 

 

I agree that you shouldn't engage Trolls, but I am not talking about that. I am talking about people that believe what that saying when they make offensive and bigoted comments. So I stand by what I say, you need to challenge this type of opinion. I can give you many examples that demonstrate what I mean. You will see that this is not people trolling but really what they mean

 

For example " Bioware games suck because they force homosexuality down our throats"

 

Now we all know any Romance option in a Bioware game is optional and even then gay Romance is part of the choices and therefore that view is clearly wrong. So I would challenge anyone who made that comment as its smacks of homophobia

[Malcador]

Indeed, you have to make everyone fall in line.

[BruceVC]

Indeed, you have to make everyone fall in line.

 

Thanks Malc, once again its good to see you firmly on the side of people who are opposed to discrimination

 

[Malcador]

Yeah, because offensive comments are really evil.

[rustypup]

Yeah, because offensive comments are really evil.

"Offensive" is not universally applicable. Who are we to draw the magical line?

 

Suppressing *everything* I may find personally offensive based on my cultural frame of reference is nothing other than small minded fascism. Freedom of expression should not fall victim to a minuscule population of vitriolic gasbags. 

[Malcador]

"Offensive" is not universally applicable. Who are we to draw the magical line?

 

Suppressing *everything* I may find personally offensive based on my cultural frame of reference is nothing other than small minded fascism. Freedom of expression should not fall victim to a minuscule population of vitriolic gasbags.

That was my point. I suppose I should just cease trying to be sarcastic. But, oh well, enforced civility is the rage these days.

[Agremont]

or... stop posting personally identifiable/trackable information in clear-text like some mindless dolt? ... It just makes it so much easier for the crazies to move from spouting brain-farts to acting out whatever cognitive dysfunction is assailing them. 

 

We've had the Internet for a while now. How is this not the default no.1 rule. Yet there we go, spamming every orifice of social media with the minutiae of our daily activities like some faceless, adoring audience out there is gagging to hear about our last meal, bowel obstruction or hedonistic binge whilst expecting nothing bad could possibly happen. 

 

It's like watching a someone hug a lion. The butt-hurt post the mauling is always so dramatic and completely divorced of context. 

 

 

Except that that's not always the case. For example if you're a somewhat public person. Just look at Scooby (internet fitness dude) who had to get off the internet because of death threats. And he hadn't shared any information he shouldn't have. People found out where he lived anyway. If people really want to they will.

 

You are really oversimplifying things and are being very dismissive. There is a point where it's past ignoring. Where it's past simple rude or derogatory comments. There's a point where it's criminal, and that should never be ignored.

 

People can and should speak up about without getting crap from it. Simple as that.

 

Then there's of course a good and a bad way of doing it, just like everything else. But I really cannot understand why some people find it so provocative.

[rustypup]

For example if you're a somewhat public person.

 

There is nothing novel about this. You appear to be suggesting that stalking, harassment and death threats are unique to the Internet? 

[mcmanusaur]

[Agremont]

 

For example if you're a somewhat public person.

 

There is nothing novel about this. You appear to be suggesting that stalking, harassment and death threats are unique to the Internet? 

 

 

Am I? Because I don't think I am.

 

Also, the difference is that people who are victims of this outside the internet usually don't get told to shut up and take it because "it's life".