Update #60: Camaraderie

[Adam Brennecke]

No update tonight folks! We are working on one for next week

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm going to cry myself to sleep now.

 

Or watch the Wire.

[ryukenden]

No update tonight folks! We are working on one for next week

 

Can you hint us on when the vertical slice is coming?

[Oner]

No update tonight folks! We are working on one for next week

Sadpanda.

[Morgulon the Wise]

Thanks for telling!

[Lephys]

No update tonight folks! We are working on one for next week

Waiiit a minnnnute... you just updated us by telling us there isn't an update. I CALL PARADOX!

[Archmage Silver]

Love the update illustrations... Kickstart an art book?

 

I'd back it.

[Lord Panda]

Is there going to be a system of commerce and/or a way to negotiate sexuality like we have seen in arcanum? I think environment driven by economics would be something RPGs have yet to master... I'm a complete noob to some experts and pro gamers but I think it would be refreshing to build in this complexity. How about extending isometric capabilities of township AI?

[Archmage Silver]

Maybe it's the phrasing that's putting me off, but you're not a bot are you?

[Lord Panda]

Yes I am

[Archmage Silver]

Lol. Nice answer.

[Faerunner]

Looks like my original reply didn't go through. Boo. =(

 

Well, just wanted to say I love the idea of companions who are well-written and have opinions and agendas of their own like real people. Yet, who also showcase the themes of the game, as well as exemplify the society and culture around them (and allow us to explore various socio and cultural conditions through our interactions with them and the world around us). I also love the idea of them showing up early because I tend to get attached to early characters very quickly. It all sounds very well-written and believable at the same time.

 

I greatly look forward to these! <3

Edited August 7, 2013 by Faerunner

[Geldridge]

I has assumed (from the Sawyer interview on RPG Codex) that the 8 "hirelings" were characters you could recruit to help in the Stronghold.

 

In that way you have

 - 8 Obsidian NPCs that travel with you

 - 8 hirelings (maybe with personalities and quests) that live in your Stronghold but can't adventure with you

 - Unlimited characters you can create yourself in the Hall of Heroes (although only a maximum of 5 in your party at any one time).

 

/quote The party size can never be larger than six standard characters, but some quests may have NPCs who come along with the party or arrive at a location when the party does. Additionally, the stronghold design currently features hirelings that help protect the stronghold and offer additional benefits, but they do not accompany the party out in the wild. /quote

 - Josh Sawyer

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9059

[Lephys]

I has assumed (from the Sawyer interview on RPG Codex) that the 8 "hirelings" were characters you could recruit to help in the Stronghold.

 

Ahhh. I was a bit unclear on the hireling thing. Totally missed that, 8P. Thanks!

 

*Has an excite*

[vonbleak]

Cant wait

[Luckmann]

Only 8? With a party of 6, that doesn't leave much for variety. Planescape: Torment had 7, for reference, and I think a lot of people remember how little variety there were between playthroughs as to who you ended up taking with you. Even Knights of the Old Republic had 9, and they only allowed you to take 2 at a time!

Baldur's Gate II had 17(!) and still suffered greatly from a lack of varied combinations that you could do, with anything resembling a themed party being all but out of the question.

So really.. only 8? :|

[rjshae]

Write them a check for $1 million and I bet they'd be able to add enough writers to increase the number of companions...

[Luckmann]

Write them a check for $1 million and I bet they'd be able to add enough writers to increase the number of companions...

Har. You're so funny.

[Hormalakh]

Quality not quantity. The 17 bg chars were not quality. You can get hirelings for the rest of your parties.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Hormalakh

[Luckmann]

Quality not quantity. The 17 bg chars were not quality. You can get hirelings for the rest of your parties.

You seem to be confusing Baldur's Gate 2 with Baldur's Gate. Both had quality, though, although the characters in Baldur's Gate 2 clearly had more substance. However, there's a balance between quantity and quality that is important.

 

It is very easy to regurgitate the old "Quality over quantity" argument, but quantity is a quality on it's own. While no-one would advocate having 70 nameless, genderless and identity-less nobodies, I do not think that you would find many people that would find it interesting to have a set 6-person party that can never be changed, with the argument that "Oh, but the characters are really, really well-developed". Or, to take the argument to it's logical extreme, 3 really good characters.. in a 6-person party.. of 3 persons.

 

The fact of the matter is that we want both. We want an adequate amount of characters with an adequate amount of character development and interaction. What signifies "adequate" is different to each person, but saying "Quality over quantity" as a winning oneliner as if someone is disagreeing with that, or saying the opposite, is just silly and infantile.

 

With only 8 available characters in the game and a party-size of 6, there just won't be any interesting combinations that you can make; it leaves exactly 3 characters to fiddle with, for whatever purpose. No themed parties, no RP-centric choices without risking to deeply cripple yourself (unless you're roleplaying someone that is willing to take on just anyone), no meaningful variety between playthroughs.

 

The lack of companions has far-reaching consequences in how the game is played and experienced, and what choices you have available. It is not a simple question of "Quality over quantity". I very much enjoy having a good range of choices when it comes to characters and my party, party interaction, and my party structure, something no game has been able to really fulfill for what now amounts to decades.

 

As for hirelings... soulless automatons need not apply. I'm obviously talking about actual characters here. I thought it was obvious from what I wrote, but perhaps I should've clarified that.

[Malekith]

 

Quality not quantity. The 17 bg chars were not quality. You can get hirelings for the rest of your parties.

You seem to be confusing Baldur's Gate 2 with Baldur's Gate. Both had quality, though, although the characters in Baldur's Gate 2 clearly had more substance. However, there's a balance between quantity and quality that is important.

 

It is very easy to regurgitate the old "Quality over quantity" argument, but quantity is a quality on it's own. While no-one would advocate having 70 nameless, genderless and identity-less nobodies, I do not think that you would find many people that would find it interesting to have a set 6-person party that can never be changed, with the argument that "Oh, but the characters are really, really well-developed". Or, to take the argument to it's logical extreme, 3 really good characters.. in a 6-person party.. of 3 persons.

 

The fact of the matter is that we want both. We want an adequate amount of characters with an adequate amount of character development and interaction. What signifies "adequate" is different to each person, but saying "Quality over quantity" as a winning oneliner as if someone is disagreeing with that, or saying the opposite, is just silly and infantile.

 

With only 8 available characters in the game and a party-size of 6, there just won't be any interesting combinations that you can make; it leaves exactly 3 characters to fiddle with, for whatever purpose. No themed parties, no RP-centric choices without risking to deeply cripple yourself (unless you're roleplaying someone that is willing to take on just anyone), no meaningful variety between playthroughs.

 

The lack of companions has far-reaching consequences in how the game is played and experienced, and what choices you have available. It is not a simple question of "Quality over quantity". I very much enjoy having a good range of choices when it comes to characters and my party, party interaction, and my party structure, something no game has been able to really fulfill for what now amounts to decades.

 

As for hirelings... soulless automatons need not apply. I'm obviously talking about actual characters here. I thought it was obvious from what I wrote, but perhaps I should've clarified that.

 

They said they want PS:T depth of companions. And PS:T had just 7. Feargus said that a single companion at that level of interactivity takes Avellone one full month. There is no way for them to have more companions without extra money and delaying the game for six months. And still 12 companions would be few by your standarts.

You will have to wait for the expansion and maybe DLCs for more

Edited August 20, 2013 by Malekith

[Lephys]

Insisting that the current number of companions is "too low" is quite silly. That's like saying "there should be like 7 more classes in the game, and they should all just be less unique and have fewer skills." Equally un-based. If a class isn't substantial enough to bring something different to the table, why even have it as an option? If your options are diluted tot he point of having hardly any significant difference, then why insist on the choices in the first place? What good is an additional choice if it detracts from the existing choices? The only circumstance in which that's better is if you just so happen to hate all the existing choices, but you love the new one.

 

What are the odds that, if they include 20 companions instead of 9, you're going to find an ENTIRE team of companions out of that 20 that you love AND don't wish had been injected with as much quality as if the game only had those 5 people?

 

In other words, everyone keeps saying "of course quality's important!", but then pretending that there's no absolute effect from spreading your resources out between 15 or 20 characters rather than 9. When you find the characters you DO like, you want them to still be as quality as possible, ideally. So, I just don't get the seeming contradiction. Is anyone going to say "Yay! I sure am glad I got these 5 people who react to only about 10% of the narrative, as opposed to being restricted to only 9 choices that react and intertwine with about 85% of the whole game!"?

[lolaldanee]

every time i see the "infernal harness of unrelenting might" next to those rather common other signature items i just have to start giggling :D

Edited August 31, 2013 by lolaldanee

[Mor]

So what is the final verdict on the difference between companions and Adventurers?