BruceVC Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 It would also be a problem for them with their EU membership. I'd just like to say that I have nothing against Turks in general. I thought it might be best to say that so no one gets the wrong impressions. I don't think anyone thinks you are anti-Turkish, you are merely giving your honest perspective I do feel that any country needs to take historical responsibility for its actions. Or at least accept they did it. For example European countries are constantly reminded of Colonialism. They don't deny it. Turkey needs to do the same especially when the evidence around the genocide of the Armenians is irrefutable. And for the record I consider Turkey a very important secular, Muslim country in the region. But they still need to accept what they did during WW1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Turkey, like Croatia in WWII, got off easily because the focus was elsewhere in both post-war situations. I wouldn't say Croatia got off easily. It has been at the butt end of everyone and taking it in the ass for centuries. Thankfully the WWII NDH thing was very short-lived (about a year I belive), and no one here is disputing what happened. * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Bruce will save me the trouble of describing what a necklacing is if anyone is interested. But logically speaking it could be fixing a person's roof for free. I saw evidence of black people doing it in South Africa. It doesn't shape my expectations of black friends and colleagues. There is some ****ed up **** out there right enough. But it's down to crises in organisations and individuals, not down to easy to apply labels. 1 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Bruce will save me the trouble of describing what a necklacing is if anyone is interested. But logically speaking it could be fixing a person's roof for free. I saw evidence of black people doing it in South Africa. It doesn't shape my expectations of black friends and colleagues. There is some ****ed up **** out there right enough. But it's down to crises in organisations and individuals, not down to easy to apply labels. Yeah, "necklacing" was a terrible way to die and a method of executing people who were considered traitors to the various people who fought against Apartheid. Its not used anymore of course You take a car tire and fill it with petrol, you then put it around the person who you want to kill while they are alive. The tire is lit and the person burns alive as the tire slowly consumes them with flame and hot rubber. As I mentioned a barbaric and excruciating way to die Edited May 29, 2013 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Walsie I'm trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive any items? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Walsie I'm trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive any items? Need to clean out the inbox, old son. Will get on it tomorrow. No time now. 1 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So don't go looking for necklaces in South Africa then. 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Walsie I'm trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive any items? Need to clean out the inbox, old son. Will get on it tomorrow. No time now. okay "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So don't go looking for necklaces in South Africa then. I lol'd.. Then I serious'd. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So don't go looking for necklaces in South Africa then. I lol'd.. Then I serious'd. Yeah it was quite funny "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga C Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's still quite disturbing and troublesome that *any* nation within Europe can parade around with a Swastika on a flag and not receive EU sanctions public international scorn in return. Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! 2 http://cbrrescue.org/ Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forests and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoors experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person.----Fred Bear http://michigansaf.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's still quite disturbing and troublesome that *any* nation within Europe can parade around with a Swastika on a flag and not receive EU sanctions public international scorn in return. Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) It's still quite disturbing and troublesome that *any* nation within Europe can parade around with a Swastika on a flag and not receive EU sanctions public international scorn in return. Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. Its also used in Hinduism, IIRC. And of course was a symbol of good luck in the west up to the adoption by the Nazi party, first use documented in Greece IIRC in the 8th century . Amazing how easily a symbol can be perverted in many ways. Edited May 29, 2013 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Native Americans as well which I know from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infantry_Division_%28United_States%29 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Speak of the devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's still quite disturbing and troublesome that *any* nation within Europe can parade around with a Swastika on a flag and not receive EU sanctions public international scorn in return. Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. I agree with Hurlshot on this one, there is too much negative association historically and currently with the Swastika for it to be anything but a symbol of fascism. "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 How the **** did we go from beheadings to Nazis? "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 How the **** did we go from beheadings to Nazis? You know how we like to jump around on topics on these forums "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drowsy Emperor Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's still quite disturbing and troublesome that *any* nation within Europe can parade around with a Swastika on a flag and not receive EU sanctions public international scorn in return. Hitler is long dead. It's time to reclaim the symbols that his regime perverted instead of engaging in Politically Correct self-flagellation. Go, Finland! No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. Its also used in Hinduism, IIRC. And of course was a symbol of good luck in the west up to the adoption by the Nazi party, first use documented in Greece IIRC in the 8th century . Amazing how easily a symbol can be perverted in many ways. And a tile design in Roman houses. History has a sense of humor too. И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,И његова сва изгибе војска, Седамдесет и седам иљада;Све је свето и честито билоИ миломе Богу приступачно. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) How the **** did we go from beheadings to Nazis? Godwin's law? Also, prospective defence from a colleague: "An extremely fragile and misshapen childhood results in a volatile adulthood. Already from the crib my client was grossly cheated of his rights and devoid of privileges, kindness and caring. Not to mention they didn't have soap." I assume there's an original source for this, but I've had a pop culture fail. Edited May 30, 2013 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 How the **** did we go from beheadings to Nazis? Godwin's law? Also, prospective defence from a colleague: "An extremely fragile and misshapen childhood results in a volatile adulthood. Already from the crib my client was grossly cheated of his rights and devoid of privileges, kindness and caring. Not to mention they didn't have soap." I assume there's an original source for this, but I've had a pop culture fail. Sounds like Rumpole to me. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. Yes. Just yes. You don't get to disallow and villify a symbol jsut because you don't like it. Hitler was a bad man. Yes. The swastika is just a symbol and as such has no morality. The only baggage it has is hte one you bring with you. And personally I'm kinda tired of WW2 and all of it's luggage. I agree with Hurlshot on this one, there is too much negative association historically and currently with the Swastika for it to be anything but a symbol of fascism. In Europe (or should I say West?). And only becuase such associations are contiunously re-inforced by some. It's not the world and it has no right ot try to push it's view on the rest of the world. And europe is NOT the world. Edited May 30, 2013 by TrashMan * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 No. Just no. Hitler was a gigantic monster, and the swastika is a symbol of that. It should continue to remind us of how important it is to be vigilant against evil. You also still have extremist groups using it to spread their hateful messages. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. If there was some big Buddhist movement to reclaim the symbol, I might get behind that. But I doubt you are Buddhist. Yes. Just yes. You don't get to disallow and villify a symbol jsut because you don't like it. Hitler was a bad man. Yes. The swastika is just a symbol and as such has no morality. The only baggage it has is hte one you bring with you. And personally I'm kinda tired of WW2 and all of it's luggage. Do you honestly believe what you post sometimes or do you just like making controversial points so people will argue with you? I'm not trying to be rude I just don't understand some of your comments The reality is the Swastika symbolizes something to the world at the moment, its irrelevant if you personally believe it symbolizes these things. Its a sign of bigotry and fascism. In certain countries you will be arrested for showing this symbol and it won't matter if you say " but the Swastika actually represents Gummi Bears to me" You understand the point around what the Swastika represents in our modern world? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's faintly amusing that you're 'tired' of WW2 and all it's baggage. You want to pretend it never happened and won't happen again? I suppose you could argue that the poor little thing has a right not to be used as a symbol of race hatred and organised cruelty. But I don't think it does. I think the absurdity of cursing a few right angles is just one of the many things we need to remind us of what happened so that the World never goes down that road again. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 It'll never go away as a symbol of all that came with it, the Jews and white supremacists will see to that. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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