So, about priests...

[Fashion Mage]

I find the description of them to be rather vague right now. Are they more like the typical clerics (heavy armour close-ranged casters with maces), or are they more like white mages ala FF (long-ranged squishy wizards with powerful holy magic)?

I'm aware that the classes are supposed to be quite customizable (one of the updates mentioned it I believe), but just how customizable is the priest? Perhaps the kind of priest is dependent on his or her deity?

 

I find myself wanting to play a white mage-type in rpgs, but it is often the case that the only available class is something more along the lines of a cleric.

[Leferd]

PE Clerics are actually patterned after DnD Paladins.

[Fashion Mage]

PE Clerics are actually patterned after DnD Paladins.

Oh, I see. Good thing there aren't any clerics in this. ;D

Seriously speaking, how are priests patterned after DnD Paladins if Paladins are already in the game?

[Somna]

 

 

PE Clerics are actually patterned after DnD Paladins.

Oh, I see. Good thing there aren't any clerics in this. ;D

Seriously speaking, how are priests patterned after DnD Paladins if Paladins are already in the game?

 

 

Because Project: Eternity Paladins are patterned after Warlords. You get healed by a drill sergeant yelling at you to get your lazy ass off the ground and MOVE IT.

[Nonek]

In my own pen and paper games my Clerics had one purpose, to spread the word of their god, and thus Charisma was their all important stat and was used for little miracles and strengthening their smiting arm. On the flip side evil Priests were usually demon summoners, using their charm and charisma to make infernal bargains with malefic beings. Spreading the faith is something i'd hope to see more of from a roleplaying standpoint, as it's so often overlooked for the Cleric, and how else would one rise up in the heirachy of their church.

[Leferd]

In my own pen and paper games my Clerics had one purpose, to spread the word of their god, and thus Charisma was their all important stat and was used for little miracles and strengthening their smiting arm. On the flip side evil Priests were usually demon summoners, using their charm and charisma to make infernal bargains with malefic beings. Spreading the faith is something i'd hope to see more of from a roleplaying standpoint, as it's so often overlooked for the Cleric, and how else would one rise up in the heirachy of their church.

That's my hope as well. Considering Sawyer's fascination with medieval history and religion, I'm keen on seeing how he'll approach the subject since PE won't be hamstrung by IP owners' sensibilities.

[Nonek]

Considering the very real benefits of rising to the zenith of the clergy, sainthood and immortality like Waidwen, one can only speculate on how byzantine the power games, pretense and politics being played out in the quiet cloistered halls of the church might become. I picture something reminiscent of the Name of the Rose, with a prize that is worth achieving through any means necessary.

[Fashion Mage]

Upon closer inspection of the PE Wiki, it would seem that a priest's abilities and weapon proficiencies are dependent on their deity.
Would I be correct in assuming that a priest would be more magic-centric if he were to use a grimoire (for example)? It seems logical considering the direction that they're taking the classes in, I don't see the reason why priests would be excluded.

 

In my own pen and paper games my Clerics had one purpose, to spread the word of their god, and thus Charisma was their all important stat and was used for little miracles and strengthening their smiting arm. On the flip side evil Priests were usually demon summoners, using their charm and charisma to make infernal bargains with malefic beings. Spreading the faith is something i'd hope to see more of from a roleplaying standpoint, as it's so often overlooked for the Cleric, and how else would one rise up in the heirachy of their church.

Personally, I'd think that what a priest/cleric does is more dependent on the faith that they follow. A priest/cleric of the god of magic and knowledge very may well be more concerned with expanding his knowledge and furthering his research, than simply converting others to their deity.

[Nonek]

Gods need worship and followers to remain potent, even if their metaphysical strength is not derived from belief, the strength and wealth of their church and the number of followers who uphold their dogma is a key aspect of faith, if they are to remain a force to be reckoned with in the world. There might well be wildly varying orders, but even they will hold that turning an unbeliever to the true faith is a divine duty, never to be overlooked. Thus there are even more willing souls to do the deities bidding in his sphere of influence, and their god is proven to be paramount and true.

 

Political and secular power can also not be forgotten, one assumes that faith is an intrinsic part of government and everyday life in Eternity, rather than being carefully segregated from statecraft by law as in most western democracies. Indeed Saint Waidwen seems to have weilded almost a nations strength from the descriptions, and the fallout from his death is bound to have real consequences for the faith. The weakest gods cause is strong if the whole world follows him and his doctrine.

[Lephys]

Upon closer inspection of the PE Wiki, it would seem that a priest's abilities and weapon proficiencies are dependent on their deity.

Would I be correct in assuming that a priest would be more magic-centric if he were to use a grimoire (for example)? It seems logical considering the direction that they're taking the classes in, I don't see the reason why priests would be excluded.

 

I don't know for certain (I'm not even sure it's been officiated yet), but I believe the grimoire will be exclusive to Wizards/mages. It's been sort of worked into their class mechanics. That isn't to say Priests might not also be able to utilize books in some form or fashion, but I do not think they will carry around a spell-listing book that allows them to cast the spells listed within it.

 

It isn't my intention to argue semantics, but merely to make sure my answer is clear in the way that "grimoire" is being used by Obsidian here.

 

That being said, based on the design intentions they've expressed, I'd say there will be equal opportunities for people who want to make a sort of "battle Priest" who "fights" more than he magifies, AND for those who want to make a more magic-centric Priest who magifies more than he "fights."

 

You know, kind of the "my faith in my god has allowed me to become the general of her army" versus "my faith in my god has made me into an avatar and conduit of her more-than-earthly powers that function remarkably like magic." 8P 

Edited April 8, 2013 by Lephys

[Fashion Mage]

It'll be total lamesville if grimoires are exclusive to wizards, but I guess I'm fine providing that priests can be primarily magical. Thanks for the clarification. :D

 

Gods need worship and followers to remain potent, even if their metaphysical strength is not derived from belief, the strength and wealth of their church and the number of followers who uphold their dogma is a key aspect of faith, if they are to remain a force to be reckoned with in the world. There might well be wildly varying orders, but even they will hold that turning an unbeliever to the true faith is a divine duty, never to be overlooked. Thus there are even more willing souls to do the deities bidding in his sphere of influence, and their god is proven to be paramount and true.

 

Political and secular power can also not be forgotten, one assumes that faith is an intrinsic part of government and everyday life in Eternity, rather than being carefully segregated from statecraft by law as in most western democracies. Indeed Saint Waidwen seems to have weilded almost a nations strength from the descriptions, and the fallout from his death is bound to have real consequences for the faith. The weakest gods cause is strong if the whole world follows him and his doctrine.

 

I don't find it terribly strange that a priest would work towards his god's goal directly as well as converting others to help, for three reasons:

1: The priest must set an example

2: The priest would obviously follow his own faith and it's commandments, trying to be a good follower

3: The priest would typically be more highly trained in the arts required to pursue his god's goal than others.

 

For example, a priest of the god of knowledge would himself be a researcher (perhaps in addition to a converter) in order to set an example and make sure he is a proper devout follower (it would be strange for a catholic priest to not help the needy himself for example). As a follower of this god you would expect him to be a pretty smart cookie and therefore a more important person in the pursuit of knowledge than some recently converted barbarian.

 

So you see a priest should not have conversion as their sole purpose. A priest is a devout believer and how can a devout believer in the god of knowledge live with himself if he is ignorant and not actively pursuing increasing his own knowledge and discovering new things through research? A priest of the killing god who does not himself kill simply seems like a bizarre thing. For a priest to convert someone to said faith, one would assume the priest to be a proper follower of that faith to begin with.

 

In addition, a priest can do more to further his god's goal than converting and to convert effectively he would have to follow his god's ways himself. Also, there would be times where his god's goal would be better served by working towards it directly than by converting others (for example, a priest of the knowledge god stuck in a town of manboons half-orcs would better serve his god's cause by researching instead of wasting time converting).

[Lephys]

It'll be total lamesville if grimoires are exclusive to wizards, but I guess I'm fine providing that priests can be primarily magical. Thanks for the clarification. :D

For what it's worth, they might be exclusive in a very specific manner (sort of in name alone). What I mean is, other classes might, indeed, get some form of book as equipment, but they will probably not be called "grimoires" (to prevent confusion, since there's already an announced ability exclusive to Wizards called "Grimoire Slam," for example), and they will probably work a bit mechanically differently from Wizard's grimoires.

 

I could totally see Priests wielding holy tomes, a la Warhammer (40K),

[rjshae]

It might be interesting if priests and druids always magically interacted through intermediaries. When they "cast a spell", what they're doing is asking some spirit to perform a task for them. That could have several effects: first, there is less of a range penalty since the intermediary will be implementing the effect at the corresponding location; second, the completion of the task would depend on the willingness of the intermediary to perform it; and the third is that the effect would appear to emanate from a semi-random point in space rather than from the priest or druid. The last may allow the character to hide more effectively and reduce their vulnerability. It would also eliminate many of the casting obstacles faced by wizards, since all a priest or druid needs to do is transmit their request to the intermediary, rather than channeling the power. The effectiveness of their soul is what determines the type of intermediary they can call upon.

[Tsuga C]

...to spread the word of their god,...

And in mine as well, but I've noticed a paucity of believers on this and the BioWare forums and I think that this lack of faith manifests itself in the cleric-as-medic syndrome you find in many games, both tabletop and cRPGs. I'm hoping the scenario proves different in P:E.

[Nonek]

I'm not asking for conversion to be the sole purpose of Eternity's priests Fashion Mage, but to be a holy duty that no faithful son of the church can overlook, and as Tsuga says even a little acknowledgement of holy responsibility outside being a healbot would be nice to see for once.

 

A priest of knowledge in a den of Half Orc illiteracy and barbarism, you beard the smart, wily old Shaman and teach him the power of words and knowledge. He'll soon see the beauty of holding secrets and the power one may wield when one knows more than others, self interest leads him and his tribe to your god. Tithes for the church, an increase in its sphere of influence, the smartest of the tribe sent to study with your church so that they too may go out to spread the word. A priestess of the killing god, a little old woman who mostly sits at a desk and scribbles orders and missives all day, her hands have never known the touch of anything heavier than a quill. She is a gifted orator and fine administrator however and thousands have been drawn to her god by the dark charisma she commands, the passionate fervour with which her hands fly in mid speech. Her orders have mobilised entire armies, the faithful crusaders of mother church and prompted the shedding of blood across entire continents, what are a few murders when compared to the genocides she has ordered.

 

The church is the means to an end, the empowerment and domination of its god, and his revelation as the one true divinity. For that to come to pass, all must acknowledge his glory.

 

I'd also like to see holy strictures of mundane nature brought into the game, fasting on holy days, feasting on others, labour being outlawed for the duration, peculiarities of clothing and diet to be adhered to etcetera, etcetera. A list of saints and angels for every religion might be going a little far however, imagine the work.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Nonek

[Fashion Mage]

I don't really think the whole "clerics are healers" thing would be a problem if there was an arcane caster class which could utilize healing/holy magic ("holy" as in "extremely good/sacred", not "divine"). I'm sure many people are looking for a healer in clerics (myself included), not a worshipper of divinity. Sadly, these two things tend to be bunched together.

I recall seeing a custom class someone created for D&D appropriately named the "White Mage", which was an arcane caster class that could mimic divine magic via a trait named "False Divinity" (or something like that), but the magic type was still classified as arcane. A class like this would seperate the concepts of "healer" and "cleric"/"priest", not that such a class will come to be I'm sure. Another example is the "Archivist" class from D&D, which is pretty much a wizard who uses divine magic. The key differences between archivists and clerics being their magical potential, armor, and their devotion to their deities. Archivists were typically more concerned with lore and knowledge than their deity, had greater magical potential (they used a spellbook instead of a mace I believe), and wore lighter armor.

My point being that this would let the people who want healers have their white mages, and the people who want clerics have clerics. Once again, I'm not really expecting much in this particular aspect.

[Lephys]

^ I'd just like to point out that:

 

A) We don't know that there isn't a "deity" in P:E who's actually just an ancient, powerful entity who bestows arcane abilities to the priests who follow it (just as an example of ways in which the Priest class might already fulfill your "cleric but not divine caster" role),

 

and B) We don't know that Wizards won't have some sort of healing specialization skill/ability grouping.

 

Hell, there could even be a deity who represents Selfishness or Self-Empowerment or something, and who grants power to those who essentially worship themselves or don't really care for any particular deity. So, a Priest's power could come from it, but not from directly worshipping it. Hatred would be another example. The more powerfully you hold to hatred, the more power you draw from the deity of hatred, even though you go about garnering hatred and not kneeling and worshipping the deity of Hatred all day long, or spreading the word of hatred. *shrug*

 

I don't think your Priest necessarily has to be the kind who goes to church every day and burns incense and lights candles, or reverently visits a temple on a regular basis, as all the deities most likely aren't going to be the same in what they represent and what they want in their "followers."

 

Just for what it's worth.

[Fashion Mage]

I agree, in fact I couldn't have said it better myself. What a priest does is very dependent on the kind of deity that they worship.

As for wizards and healing, you have a good point. I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions so swiftly. Of course, judging from trends in games styled after D&D, wizards aren't likely to have healing, but this is all up to the developers I suppose. Here's hoping they do. :'P

Edited April 16, 2013 by Fashion Mage

[cleric Nemir]

Hi people. My name here really says all,so I would like to share what I aim for and hope for as a cleric/priest/callitwhatUlike,it may be useful coming from a dedicated player. Know that I am a cleric strictly in all games,other classes only if the game tempts me to replay it. And I hate paladins.

 

What I like is the concept of cleric we had so far - a demifighter and a healer that is allowed extra talent trough domains and a deity.

I do not wish to play this priest class as something overly different to this concept. I like playing cleric as is,other classes are not my thing. This doesn't mean I like every detail about clerics so far,as I will explain.

 

First of all,deity. I would love to see more display of zeal that my character shows towards anything concerning his god/goddess.

So far,clerics cast divine magic (any speculation on how come the druids also cast divine can lead to a lot. I find it amusing that nature and god are,this way,a same thing.. but let us not go there ). As I see it,it is a power bestowed upon them in return for their worship. This contact must be a part of every cleric's action. As for domains,I would prefer them limited and in tight connection to the deity. Ex: Priest of Bane? Domains Law/Evil/Destruction/Tyranny/Hatred. Choose two.

Deities that deal in arcane should not make anything different, the priest receives power to cast from deity - it is a category labeled divine. I thought this to be common knowledge,now I know. So,step two.

 

Healing or harming,as I like to understand it,is chanelling of vast energy,obtained trough deity,for it's name's purpose. I like the rest of the spellset to deal in buffs/debuffs with extra spells in regard to domains,nothing more needed there. Sometimes I feel the sets I saw in games so far are a little overfilled. Nevertheless: healing and harming are on the must list for a priest as far as I am concerned. I am speaking as all-games cleric after all,and I like the job. Wizards and such can benefit with vampiric spells,as before,so no heal spell for them,thank you.

 

Lastly,the weapons and armor of a cleric/priest/whatever. As much as I wan't to justify the standards we have saying things like "of course he will be armored well,he's fragile,and he needs to buff the muscle rather than self" or "mace and morningstar are perfect weapons for him,sword needs training-club needs be only swing'd",I am open to new standards. A priestly robes and a deity's symbol or a tome in the offhand is fine by me,but I prefer the warpriest version. I like shields,but never seen any with a deity symbol on it lately,so I would prefer a holy-symbol-on-a-chain/book instead,whatever this priest class turns out to be.

 

There goes my opinion. Feel free to ask or comment,as of other clerics out there-do report in.

Edited May 23, 2013 by cleric Nemir

[bonarbill]

Honestly, I'm just hoping priest end up similar to D&D 3.5 clerics instead of 3.5 Paladins.   I think anyone who play 3.5 or any of the Neverwinter Nights Games know the exact reason. 

[Fashion Mage]

I think it would be an interesting option to be able to play a priest but not follow any deity at all. I believe in D&D it was described as following an ideal instead of a deity, so kind of like buddhist priests, or holy priests from WoW. Considering that the power of priests' magic in PE doesn't really come from their deity, this option wouldn't be quite as ridiculous as it would seem.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Fashion Mage

[rjshae]

I think it would be an interesting option to be able to play a priest but not follow any deity at all. I believe in D&D it was described as following an ideal instead of a deity, so kind of like buddhist priests, or holy priests from WoW. Considering that the power of priests' magic in PE doesn't really come from their deity, this option wouldn't be quite as ridiculous as it would seem.

 

Okay, but let's call them Wizards instead.

[Tsuga C]

I think it would be an interesting option to be able to play a priest but not follow any deity at all.

I never warmed up to that concept and I never allowed that option when I was the DM back in my tabletop D&D days. It always struck me that the player was trying to enjoy the usefulness of clerical powers without having to earn them by towing the line of a specific deity (adhering to religious doctrine, making offerings/sacrifices, proselytizing, etc.). Such liberalities cannot be allowed if the cleric class is to have any meaning and be anything other than a sorceror with a different spell list and better hit dice.

[Woldan]

I imagine that priests draw their power and abilities from their faith and fanatic worship of a deity - a godless priest would be little more than a spellshaper with some mediocre combat abilities. 

[Nonek]

One of my players back in the day was writhing on the crux of this dilemna, he liked the skillset of the Cleric class but was disdainful of organised religion, deities and faith, his modern sensibilities at war with his roleplaying persona. I advised him to go with a Druid, as my iteration were guardians of life and dealt with healing and the natural world, rather than a deities dogma. I don't know whether Eternities skin shifters will be so inclined to healing, and a less faith intensive approach.

 

My paladin player however (a very ferociously atheistic gentleman) simply roleplayed a believer, hyping himself up through gregorian chant, the beautiful architecture and artistry of the renaissance and the more lyrical and touching passages from the good book, such as 1 Corinthians 13.