Limited gold for merchants

[rifqi]

It's already been mentioned but I thought I should add my voice as well.

 

I've never really understood the joy of looting every little knick-knack you run across. If I was out adventuring I wouldn't bother picking up a sword unless it was exceptional in some way or an improvement on what I was using at the time. It just doesn't make any sense from a role playing perspective.

 

Instead, what I would love to see, would be for money to actually have value to the player. So, after clearing a dungeon, why not let the reward be a chest of gold? It makes sense. Then make it possible to use that gold to buy actually useful stuff from merchants. Have them sell weapons and armor that are as good or better than what you find on your average adventure. Make it exciting to find gold, instead of having it be a useless resource that you just keep gathering, never to use. Maybe that reward from the next quest will be enough to buy that sword you've been saving up for, how's that for incentive? It would also make it easier to role play more pragmatic characters who aren't interested in doing good just because it's good. Giving gold actual value would give those characters a reason to take on a certain quest.

 

I really don't think your main income should be from selling loot, except for the occasional, rare, epic sword of badassary or things like gems. In short: wether merchants have unlimited gold or not shouldn't matter, as long as the whole economics system is implemented in a smart way.

[Jarmo]

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

That works unless leaving the stuff cripples you financially.

Suggesting the root cause is the mechanic where hauling loot is the wealth generation mechanic.

 

Two (of the many) things I dislike.

 

Adventurers main source of income: Selling bloodied trousers in town market.

Adventurers main source of experience: Delivering inane messages and packages around the continent (Avatar mail service).

[Somna]

It's already been mentioned but I thought I should add my voice as well.

 

I've never really understood the joy of looting every little knick-knack you run across. If I was out adventuring I wouldn't bother picking up a sword unless it was exceptional in some way or an improvement on what I was using at the time. It just doesn't make any sense from a role playing perspective.

 

Instead, what I would love to see, would be for money to actually have value to the player. So, after clearing a dungeon, why not let the reward be a chest of gold? It makes sense. Then make it possible to use that gold to buy actually useful stuff from merchants. Have them sell weapons and armor that are as good or better than what you find on your average adventure. Make it exciting to find gold, instead of having it be a useless resource that you just keep gathering, never to use. Maybe that reward from the next quest will be enough to buy that sword you've been saving up for, how's that for incentive? It would also make it easier to role play more pragmatic characters who aren't interested in doing good just because it's good. Giving gold actual value would give those characters a reason to take on a certain quest.

 

I really don't think your main income should be from selling loot, except for the occasional, rare, epic sword of badassary or things like gems. In short: wether merchants have unlimited gold or not shouldn't matter, as long as the whole economics system is implemented in a smart way.

They don't do it out of joy. It's precisely because so much emphasis is placed on money that people are selling everything with a vendor value.

 

It's when you see something nice for sale for 10000 gp and you only have around 200 gp that triggers people's inner pillager, willing to sell anything that's lootable to get to that goal, just to get there slightly faster.

[rifqi]

 

It's already been mentioned but I thought I should add my voice as well.

 

I've never really understood the joy of looting every little knick-knack you run across. If I was out adventuring I wouldn't bother picking up a sword unless it was exceptional in some way or an improvement on what I was using at the time. It just doesn't make any sense from a role playing perspective.

 

Instead, what I would love to see, would be for money to actually have value to the player. So, after clearing a dungeon, why not let the reward be a chest of gold? It makes sense. Then make it possible to use that gold to buy actually useful stuff from merchants. Have them sell weapons and armor that are as good or better than what you find on your average adventure. Make it exciting to find gold, instead of having it be a useless resource that you just keep gathering, never to use. Maybe that reward from the next quest will be enough to buy that sword you've been saving up for, how's that for incentive? It would also make it easier to role play more pragmatic characters who aren't interested in doing good just because it's good. Giving gold actual value would give those characters a reason to take on a certain quest.

 

I really don't think your main income should be from selling loot, except for the occasional, rare, epic sword of badassary or things like gems. In short: wether merchants have unlimited gold or not shouldn't matter, as long as the whole economics system is implemented in a smart way.

They don't do it out of joy. It's precisely because so much emphasis is placed on money that people are selling everything with a vendor value.

 

It's when you see something nice for sale for 10000 gp and you only have around 200 gp that triggers people's inner pillager, willing to sell anything that's lootable to get to that goal, just to get there slightly faster.

Then I don't think we've been playing the same games I don't remember ever spending a large amount of money in, for example, BG and BG2. It just kept piling up and ended up being useless.

 

If it is as you say, people looting everything because they need more money, then the whole system is inherently flawed. The main source of income should be actual money, gold and treasure, not daggers and shields. For me this is a question of immersion and being able to role play. Sure, if I know some rich dude has a sword covered with jewels, I'll try to steal it (provided it's in character, of course ), but I won't be picking up every dagger a bunch of goblins drop. It would probably take more time and effort than it would be worth anyway.

[rjshae]

Can I become a money lender then loan some money to a merchant so she can buy all my crud?

[Somna]

Then I don't think we've been playing the same games I don't remember ever spending a large amount of money in, for example, BG and BG2. It just kept piling up and ended up being useless.

 

If it is as you say, people looting everything because they need more money, then the whole system is inherently flawed. The main source of income should be actual money, gold and treasure, not daggers and shields. For me this is a question of immersion and being able to role play. Sure, if I know some rich dude has a sword covered with jewels, I'll try to steal it (provided it's in character, of course ), but I won't be picking up every dagger a bunch of goblins drop. It would probably take more time and effort than it would be worth anyway.

It probably depends on where you go in the games and when.

 

Re-using an earlier example, the Hand of Kazgoroth and Claw of Kazgoroth in Baldur's Gate are at High Hedge, which you can easily get to at level 1 (and may want to for potentially easy XP with Melicamp).

 

They're also > 10000 gp each. 

 

It's been a while since I played, but I know I've definitely made a point to get one of the two and used it through the game before.

[general_azure]

I don't think you could quite reach those 10k gold in BG1 from selling generic gnoll halberds anyways... the only non-magic stuff I looted with the express purpose of selling were heavy suits of plate armor. My actual income in that game was neither junk loot nor gold rewards, but all those magic baubles I picked up along the way.

 

Think we had a decent thread about the value of gold way back before they split the PE discussion up into subforums, I'll see if I can dig it up and link it here.

[Gfted1]

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

[maggotheart]

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I think all of those things you mentioned are great ideas that are much needed and will make the game better. I'm just as much of a fan of the IE games as you and I'm not a stupid idiot who can't control himself. From what I can recall from the individual threads for each of those ideas, there were a small handful of complainers and naysayers (whiners) who were consistently logically routed over many, many pages by nice folks who tried to explain why those mechanics are good. Rather than be passive aggressive about it here, how about going back to those threads and telling us again how you think those ideas and the people who like them are stupid? I'm sure there are lots of people willing to continue those discussions and explain how you are wrong.

[Amentep]

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I'm not sure I agree they're "healing the symptoms" since they are high level design decisions to reflect things the developers want to change (whether you think they're an issue or not).

 

A "healing the symptoms" would be to make a low level decision that only addresses the immediate issue (Making it so every rest outside of an inn spawns an auto-hostile encounter would be an example of "healing the symptom" for rest abuse, I'd think.  It doesn't change the system, only tries to punish the player for using the non-ideal system in non-ideal ways)

[Gfted1]

 

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I think all of those things you mentioned are great ideas that are much needed and will make the game better. I'm just as much of a fan of the IE games as you and I'm not a stupid idiot who can't control himself. From what I can recall from the individual threads for each of those ideas, there were a small handful of complainers and naysayers (whiners) who were consistently logically routed over many, many pages by nice folks who tried to explain why those mechanics are good. Rather than be passive aggressive about it here, how about going back to those threads and telling us again how you think those ideas and the people who like them are stupid? I'm sure there are lots of people willing to continue those discussions and explain how you are wrong.

 

 

I dont need to review them, they all come down to the same point, "I cant control myself so I need you to control me". Whats not to understand? Its a single player game and if a person want to "ruin" the experience for themselves by playing "degeneratively" then thats on them. Just as I replied to Trashman question. One way lets everyone play how they wish, the other way forced eveyone to play as Sawyer wishes. Instead of crying about being a poor misunderstood snowflake, perhaps you can explain why its everyone elses problem to hold your hand while you play.

 

 

[maggotheart]

 

 

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I think all of those things you mentioned are great ideas that are much needed and will make the game better. I'm just as much of a fan of the IE games as you and I'm not a stupid idiot who can't control himself. From what I can recall from the individual threads for each of those ideas, there were a small handful of complainers and naysayers (whiners) who were consistently logically routed over many, many pages by nice folks who tried to explain why those mechanics are good. Rather than be passive aggressive about it here, how about going back to those threads and telling us again how you think those ideas and the people who like them are stupid? I'm sure there are lots of people willing to continue those discussions and explain how you are wrong.

 

 

I dont need to review them, they all come down to the same point, "I cant control myself so I need you to control me". Whats not to understand? Its a single player game and if a person want to "ruin" the experience for themselves by playing "degeneratively" then thats on them. Just as I replied to Trashman question. One way lets everyone play how they wish, the other way forced eveyone to play as Sawyer wishes. Instead of crying about being a poor misunderstood snowflake, perhaps you can explain why its everyone elses problem to hold your hand while you play.

 

 

 

They do not all come down to the same point, that's just how it seems to you because you're being stubborn and narrow minded. Not that I would bother to debate you on that personally - it's just when you start calling me "stupid" and "a poor misunderstood snowflake" who is "crying" that I have a problem. I never said you should review those threads, I said you should go back to those threads if you want to debate those ideas, where you can continue to be wrong and have it explained in detail why. This thread is about merchants, not the stash mechanic or regenerating stamina.

[Gfted1]

 

 

 

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I think all of those things you mentioned are great ideas that are much needed and will make the game better. I'm just as much of a fan of the IE games as you and I'm not a stupid idiot who can't control himself. From what I can recall from the individual threads for each of those ideas, there were a small handful of complainers and naysayers (whiners) who were consistently logically routed over many, many pages by nice folks who tried to explain why those mechanics are good. Rather than be passive aggressive about it here, how about going back to those threads and telling us again how you think those ideas and the people who like them are stupid? I'm sure there are lots of people willing to continue those discussions and explain how you are wrong.

 

 

I dont need to review them, they all come down to the same point, "I cant control myself so I need you to control me". Whats not to understand? Its a single player game and if a person want to "ruin" the experience for themselves by playing "degeneratively" then thats on them. Just as I replied to Trashman question. One way lets everyone play how they wish, the other way forced eveyone to play as Sawyer wishes. Instead of crying about being a poor misunderstood snowflake, perhaps you can explain why its everyone elses problem to hold your hand while you play.

 

 

 

They do not all come down to the same point, that's just how it seems to you because you're being stubborn and narrow minded. Not that I would bother to debate you on that personally - it's just when you start calling me "stupid" and "a poor misunderstood snowflake" who is "crying" that I have a problem. I never said you should review those threads, I said you should go back to those threads if you want to debate those ideas, where you can continue to be wrong and have it explained in detail why. This thread is about merchants, not the stash mechanic or regenerating stamina.

 

 

I never called you stupid, you called you stupid, but I do have a hard time disagreeing.

 

I was responding to a query from Trashman about why mechanics like these spring into existance. You dont need to worry yourself about what I post.

[Amentep]

One way lets everyone play how they wish, the other way forced eveyone to play as Sawyer wishes. Instead of crying about being a poor misunderstood snowflake, perhaps you can explain why its everyone elses problem to hold your hand while you play.

 

Actually both ways allows everyone to play how they wish within the constraints created by the game's design.  The difference is that the IE games and PE have differing design philosophies as PE's design is being influenced by the developers looking at what they felt did and didn't work in the IE games.

[maggotheart]

 

 

 

 

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

 

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I think all of those things you mentioned are great ideas that are much needed and will make the game better. I'm just as much of a fan of the IE games as you and I'm not a stupid idiot who can't control himself. From what I can recall from the individual threads for each of those ideas, there were a small handful of complainers and naysayers (whiners) who were consistently logically routed over many, many pages by nice folks who tried to explain why those mechanics are good. Rather than be passive aggressive about it here, how about going back to those threads and telling us again how you think those ideas and the people who like them are stupid? I'm sure there are lots of people willing to continue those discussions and explain how you are wrong.

 

 

I dont need to review them, they all come down to the same point, "I cant control myself so I need you to control me". Whats not to understand? Its a single player game and if a person want to "ruin" the experience for themselves by playing "degeneratively" then thats on them. Just as I replied to Trashman question. One way lets everyone play how they wish, the other way forced eveyone to play as Sawyer wishes. Instead of crying about being a poor misunderstood snowflake, perhaps you can explain why its everyone elses problem to hold your hand while you play.

 

 

 

They do not all come down to the same point, that's just how it seems to you because you're being stubborn and narrow minded. Not that I would bother to debate you on that personally - it's just when you start calling me "stupid" and "a poor misunderstood snowflake" who is "crying" that I have a problem. I never said you should review those threads, I said you should go back to those threads if you want to debate those ideas, where you can continue to be wrong and have it explained in detail why. This thread is about merchants, not the stash mechanic or regenerating stamina.

 

 

I never called you stupid, you called you stupid, but I do have a hard time disagreeing.

 

I was responding to a query from Trashman about why mechanics like these spring into existance. You dont need to worry yourself about what I post.

 

"Dur, me cant control self"

 

^^^

That is you calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. (or retarded)

 

I don't care if you were responding to someone else, it was obnoxious and directly attacking everyone who disagreed with you, which I happen to be one. If you don't like getting a strong response, don't post such nonsense.

[Gfted1]

"Dur, me cant control self"

 

^^^

That is you calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. (or retarded)

 

I don't care if you were responding to someone else, it was obnoxious and directly attacking everyone who disagreed with you, which I happen to be one. If you don't like getting a strong response, don't post such nonsense.

I dont care about your level of response or your feelings. If you cant control yourself thats your problem, not mine. Well, I guess its mine now that the game has to cater to people like you.

[Somna]

 

 

"Dur, me cant control self"

 

^^^

That is you calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. (or retarded)

 

I don't care if you were responding to someone else, it was obnoxious and directly attacking everyone who disagreed with you, which I happen to be one. If you don't like getting a strong response, don't post such nonsense.

I dont care about your level of response or your feelings. If you cant control yourself thats your problem, not mine. Well, I guess its mine now that the game has to cater to people like you.

This is reminding me of a man telling a woman he was offended on behalf of lesbians about a phrase the woman used as a curse -- the phrase which she got from a lesbian friend. (The tongue lashing he got back was really funny and just too impossible to duplicate.)

 

That aside, a lot of the changes could also be summed up as "I don't see why you felt it was necessary to change this but whatever."

[maggotheart]

 

"Dur, me cant control self"

 

^^^

That is you calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. (or retarded)

 

I don't care if you were responding to someone else, it was obnoxious and directly attacking everyone who disagreed with you, which I happen to be one. If you don't like getting a strong response, don't post such nonsense.

I dont care about your level of response or your feelings. If you cant control yourself thats your problem, not mine. Well, I guess its mine now that the game has to cater to people like you.

 

I think you do care, and I can control myself perfectly well.

 

Serious question: how the hell did you become a moderator on these boards? You have a bad attitude and I'm fairly certain calling people stupid (you've done it twice now) is against the Forum Guidelines

[Amentep]

 

 

"Dur, me cant control self"

 

^^^

That is you calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. (or retarded)

 

I don't care if you were responding to someone else, it was obnoxious and directly attacking everyone who disagreed with you, which I happen to be one. If you don't like getting a strong response, don't post such nonsense.

I dont care about your level of response or your feelings. If you cant control yourself thats your problem, not mine. Well, I guess its mine now that the game has to cater to people like you.

 

I think you do care, and I can control myself perfectly well.

 

Serious question: how the hell did you become a moderator on these boards? You have a bad attitude and I'm fairly certain calling people stupid (you've done it twice now) is against the Forum Guidelines

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/55565-congratulations-gfted1/ - gfted's been around a long time and cares a lot about these forums (and previous ones). 

 

Also, to be fair, gfted has always used exaggeration for effect in his arguments; as someone who disagrees with him on these design changes, I certainly don't feel that he's called me stupid with his "Dur, me cant control self" Hulk-talk or his "pretty snow flake" bit.

 

That said if you feel strongly about it, report his posts to the mod team (I think even gfted would agree that that's a better path when confronted with any poster you feel has violated the boards rules than to try to take them on yourself and possibly end up violating board rules in frustration).  You can go to the moderator team section and PM a mod directly if you want to make sure a mod other than gfted looks at your concerns.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Amentep

[maggotheart]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/55565-congratulations-gfted1/ - gfted's been around a long time and cares a lot about these forums (and previous ones). 

 

Also, to be fair, gfted has always used exaggeration for effect in his arguments; as someone who disagrees with him on these design changes, I certainly don't feel that he's called me stupid with his "Dur, me cant control self" Hulk-talk or his "pretty snow flake" bit.

 

That said if you feel strongly about it, report his posts to the mod team (I think even gfted would agree that that's a better path when confronted with any poster you feel has violated the boards rules than to try to take them on yourself and possibly end up violating board rules in frustration).  You can go to the moderator team section and PM a mod directly if you want to make sure a mod other than gfted looks at your concerns.

 

Hmm, thanks for the link and the perspective. I don't really care that much, I was just honestly curious.

[rjshae]

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I don't get the sense that the current "engagement" mechanic is healing a symptom of game play behavior; it's more like a more realistic tactical element that you need to overcome.

 

The other mechanics just seem to be a method of providing verisimilitude while minimizing boredom. Walking back and forth to carry loot is dreary behavior and I'm happy to see that mostly go away. Frequent resting while inside enemy territory is dull and unrealistic.

[Amentep]

 

 

Then don't gather and lug around all the crap.

 

It's funny how people go around trying to heal the symptoms, while avoiding the actual cause.

 

Every single game mechanic released so far is "healing the symptoms". Rest too much? = Dedicated rest spots. Walk back and forth for loot? = unlimited inventory. Get sad because your level 1 toon misses sometimes? = only 5% chance to miss. Like to heal between fights? = No field healing mechanic at all. Grind for experience? = no kill experience. All of these (except missing) were controllable by the players themselves until "Dur, me cant control self" somehow became a legitimate excuse and requires programs to cater to their compulsive disorders.

 

I don't get the sense that the current "engagement" mechanic is healing a symptom of game play behavior; it's more like a more realistic tactical element that you need to overcome.

 

The other mechanics just seem to be a method of providing verisimilitude while minimizing boredom. Walking back and forth to carry loot is dreary behavior and I'm happy to see that mostly go away. Frequent resting while inside enemy territory is dull and unrealistic.

 

The impression I get is they're looking at the way people actually played the game and trying address emergent behavior that isn't intended in the design of the game.  I don't think anyone wants the player to have to carry junk around equivalent to carrying a VW bug on ones back and yet most early RPGs - because of scarcity of resources - encourages people to carry everything they find in the hope of getting a +1 longsword.

 

To my mind there's two way to deal with this - one is fairly complex (involving economy, merchant money, merchant inclination to buy used goods, item condition, creating a junk market, etc) and one is relatively easy (accept player hording and build hording as a viable mechanic that can then be penalized in specific ways to simulate a 'cost' associated with carrying that VW bug on your back but not necessarily a cost that limits the "fun" factor of playing the game).

 

[Gfted1]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/55565-congratulations-gfted1/

A trip down memory lane. Gorgon claiming to never be a mod in post 29 cracked me up.

 

 

I don't get the sense that the current "engagement" mechanic is healing a symptom of game play behavior; it's more like a more realistic tactical element that you need to overcome.

You are correct, the latest engagement mechanic doesnt seem to force a platstyle on anyone and for that Im eternally grateful.

 

The other mechanics just seem to be a method of providing verisimilitude while minimizing boredom. Walking back and forth to carry loot is dreary behavior and I'm happy to see that mostly go away. Frequent resting while inside enemy territory is dull and unrealistic.

One persons "boredom" is anothers preferred method. Whether youre bored or not was completely up to you to control. Dont want to walk back and forth? Then dont. Dont want to rest? Then dont. Dont want to...I think you see where this is going. Unfortunately, the "choices" everyone around here like to trumpet have been taken away and replaced with one and only one method of playing, Sawyers way. All to save people that cant control their actions.

[Amentep]

But - and this is where I'm getting lost in this argument - why do you want the game to encourage you to "walk back and forth" or to rest after every fight?

 

What about that particular mechanic is worth keeping?

[Ffordesoon]

This argument is dumb.