Planescape: Torment successor announced. Set in Numenera universe.

[alanschu]

Alan thats a little cynical. Fargo is making games for our entertainment, revenue is probably his last consideration. He is also doing it for the kids, its all for the kids and the enjoyment on there little faces when they see the words "Torment " on the game as they take it out of the wrapping paper.

 

It is cynical, but it's in large part fueled by listening to Fargo flood the world with Tweets about all the freedom and awesomeness that Kickstarter has allotted him and how he doesn't have to play the Publisher game anymore, only to then see him do the exact same things that big publishers do because it's safe and will bring in additional funding.  To be certain, the man definitely knows how to play the game (he's been on both sides of the coin).

 

With Wasteland 2 I at least give him a pass because he's clearly been wanting to make that sequel for over 20 years.

 

 

This whole thing about the importance of sequels can be confusing, but trust me if you worked for a large, international software company then you would see that its not just the fact that the game is a sequel but its the content that matters and resonates with fans 

 

Eh, call Modern Warfare something else, and I don't think you get record breaking day one launches (especially if something else is still called Modern Warfare).

 

I think what people like about sequels is that, just like publishers, it makes THEM feel safe and secure too.  Relic could make a completely new RTS, but if they make a Company of Heroes one, or even a Homeworld one, fans get those warm fuzzies they once got by playing the earlier game, and the feelings of nostalgia and emotional attachment that goes along with it.  People clamour for a sequel to the games that they love, because it's the greatest assurance, in their minds, that the game will deliver on the same awesomeness they got from the original.

 

The irony, and what I want to see out of Kickstarter, is that had a developer decided to make a sequel instead of the original IP that that person now loves, they would have never gotten that original IP that they now love.

 

 

I don't want to see Wing Commander 7 (or whatever) through Kickstarter.  I want to see a resurgence in new space sims that try something a little different with a different setting.  It's hard to pitch a game like "Torment 2" to a big publisher because it wasn't a big seller.  Thing is, it'd be even more difficult to pitch the original Torment today since there'd be virtually nothing to compare it to.

[cyberarmy]

 

 

 

I don't want to see Wing Commander 7 (or whatever) through Kickstarter.  I want to see a resurgence in new space sims that try something a little different with a different setting.  It's hard to pitch a game like "Torment 2" to a big publisher because it wasn't a big seller.  Thing is, it'd be even more difficult to pitch the original Torment today since there'd be virtually nothing to compare it to.

 

 

You are a bit late Star Citizen already become funded as a Wing Commander(or any good'ol space sim) spirutal successor via crowdfunding.

[alanschu]

 

 

 

I don't want to see Wing Commander 7 (or whatever) through Kickstarter.  I want to see a resurgence in new space sims that try something a little different with a different setting.  It's hard to pitch a game like "Torment 2" to a big publisher because it wasn't a big seller.  Thing is, it'd be even more difficult to pitch the original Torment today since there'd be virtually nothing to compare it to.

 

 

You are a bit late Star Citizen already become funded as a Wing Commander(or any good'ol space sim) spirutal successor via crowdfunding.

 

Haha, no I did know about that one

 

He's not just saying "here's a new Wing Commander" though.  I think that that messaging is important.  It gives him more freedom to try something new (which could be even more mind blowingly amazing).  It's what I want to see.  Chris Roberts clearly has a legacy and passion for making those types of games, and Kickstarter is letting him do that again.  That is AWESOME and great for the industry as a whole IMO.

 

 

I'm sure that Fargo is passionate about the PST game too, but he's creating explicit links to the other game.  That brings with it a lot of extra baggage, but without the additional u understanding that Wasteland 2 has as being a pet project that he has wanted to work on for decades.

[cyberarmy]

I just hope he won't start a new KS campaing before Wasteland 2 is up and running smoothly.

[BruceVC]

 

Alan thats a little cynical. Fargo is making games for our entertainment, revenue is probably his last consideration. He is also doing it for the kids, its all for the kids and the enjoyment on there little faces when they see the words "Torment " on the game as they take it out of the wrapping paper.

 

It is cynical, but it's in large part fueled by listening to Fargo flood the world with Tweets about all the freedom and awesomeness that Kickstarter has allotted him and how he doesn't have to play the Publisher game anymore, only to then see him do the exact same things that big publishers do because it's safe and will bring in additional funding.  To be certain, the man definitely knows how to play the game (he's been on both sides of the coin).

 

With Wasteland 2 I at least give him a pass because he's clearly been wanting to make that sequel for over 20 years.

 

 

>This whole thing about the importance of sequels can be confusing, but trust me if you worked for a large, international software company then you would see that its not just the fact that the game is a sequel but its the content that matters and resonates with fans 

 

Eh, call Modern Warfare something else, and I don't think you get record breaking day one launches (especially if something else is still called Modern Warfare).

 

I think what people like about sequels is that, just like publishers, it makes THEM feel safe and secure too.  Relic could make a completely new RTS, but if they make a Company of Heroes one, or even a Homeworld one, fans get those warm fuzzies they once got by playing the earlier game, and the feelings of nostalgia and emotional attachment that goes along with it.  People clamour for a sequel to the games that they love, because it's the greatest assurance, in their minds, that the game will deliver on the same awesomeness they got from the original.

 

The irony, and what I want to see out of Kickstarter, is that had a developer decided to make a sequel instead of the original IP that that person now loves, they would have never gotten that original IP that they now love.

 

 

I don't want to see Wing Commander 7 (or whatever) through Kickstarter.  I want to see a resurgence in new space sims that try something a little different with a different setting.  It's hard to pitch a game like "Torment 2" to a big publisher because it wasn't a big seller.  Thing is, it'd be even more difficult to pitch the original Torment today since there'd be virtually nothing to compare it to.

 

 

 

As usual you make some cogent  and convincing points. I also get your overall view, that KS should be about new IP and idea's for games. I guess I see KS as delivering both. Sequels and new concepts, and at the moment it does seem to be doing this to a certain degree.

[Malekith]

 

 

 

 

I don't want to see Wing Commander 7 (or whatever) through Kickstarter.  I want to see a resurgence in new space sims that try something a little different with a different setting.  It's hard to pitch a game like "Torment 2" to a big publisher because it wasn't a big seller.  Thing is, it'd be even more difficult to pitch the original Torment today since there'd be virtually nothing to compare it to.

 

 

You are a bit late Star Citizen already become funded as a Wing Commander(or any good'ol space sim) spirutal successor via crowdfunding.

 

Haha, no I did know about that one

 

He's not just saying "here's a new Wing Commander" though.  I think that that messaging is important.  It gives him more freedom to try something new (which could be even more mind blowingly amazing).  It's what I want to see.  Chris Roberts clearly has a legacy and passion for making those types of games, and Kickstarter is letting him do that again.  That is AWESOME and great for the industry as a whole IMO.

 

 

I'm sure that Fargo is passionate about the PST game too, but he's creating explicit links to the other game.  That brings with it a lot of extra baggage, but without the additional u understanding that Wasteland 2 has as being a pet project that he has wanted to work on for decades.

I get your overall view,but i have a question. How much do you think Fargo's team is restricted in this game?

 

New setting,new characters,new story. The only "restriction" i can see is to have a text heavy, interesting narrative direction and  philosophical themes. Thats not restrictive.

Yourself said that the things Fargo promised you, you wanted anyway and were vargue enough to not need a "Torment" in the title.

 

I agree that the word Torment is a marketing ploy. But its not so serious from where i'm standing. Also i'm positive about the Torment "fransise", because it will lead to a list of games that will prioritize things that we don't get from todays market.Will all of them  be great? Of course not. Or maybe yes. The point is that the intent  to make them "Torments spiritual successors" will be there

[Mamoulian War]

And I would love to see another Wing Commander, because I ****ing want to know the story about what happened to Blair after his abduction...

 

And of course made by Chris Roberts...

[alanschu]

 

I get your overall view,but i have a question. How much do you think Fargo's team is restricted in this game?

 

Infinitely more than the Planescape: Torment game.  The setting itself may be new, but it was validated by Fargo as being acceptable for a Torment game.  This means that the decision to go with it meant that the idea had to be related back to the original game, so that it passed the game's standard.  It won't just be "new characters" it will be "new characters that we feel are sufficiently Torment."  It's not just a new story, but a "new story that we feel is sufficiently Torment."  These restrictions don't exist with brand new game ideas, but in the big publishing world that also makes them more risky.

 

 

What makes Torment so fantastic isn't its game mechanics, or its isometric perspective.  It's the content contained within, and the things that they ended up doing.  Planescape: Torment is created with a fresh idea and the freedoms that that allows.  Torment 2 is created with the intrinsic restriction of "This must be a Torment game, and contain the same themes as Planescape: Torment."

 

For myself, the surprise is already ruined (I already have an idea what the game's content will be about, something I didn't have with Planescape: Torment), and it means that they will always have that niggling thoughts when new content is created of "Is this Torment enough?"  Every idea put forth will have to pass the "Torment filter."  When you're creating Planescape: Torment from scratch, this filter doesn't really exist.  Ideas put forth just have to work with the rest of the content going into the game itself, rather than worrying if it also satisfies external requirements that have been brought in.

 

 

I know first hand how customers will react if they don't feel that the product appropriately meets the expectations set forth by being a sequel.  There's a lot more "I would have liked your game more had it not been a sequel" type of feedback than "The only reason I liked this game was because it was a sequel."

 

I'm of the mind that, a good game that happens to be a sequel to a good game would be a good game regardless.  A great game that is the sequel to a great game would be a great game regardless.  A good game, however, that is a sequel to a great game, gets critiqued more harshly.

 

 

 

And I would love to see another Wing Commander, because I ****ing want to know the story about what happened to Blair after his abduction...

 

And of course made by Chris Roberts...

 

So you want Chris Roberts to make a sequel to a game he didn't even work on with who knows what sort of influence he had on the main plot of it?  Sounds like something I'm sure he'd just love to work on.

[Nonek]

I'm increasingly liking the setting, ripe with all kinds of possibilities, reminds me of a book I read ages ago though for the life of me I can't recall the title or author. Touch concerned that Mr Avellone is not on board, it was his writing in large part that drew me into the original Torment. Not really got an opinion on the name issue one way or the other, so long as it's a deep, philosophical and intrinsically personal narrative then i'll be content.

 

I would like to see how Wasteland 2 turns out before pledging however.

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

 

 

 

And I would love to see another Wing Commander, because I ****ing want to know the story about what happened to Blair after his abduction...

 

And of course made by Chris Roberts...

 

So you want Chris Roberts to make a sequel to a game he didn't even work on with who knows what sort of influence he had on the main plot of it?  Sounds like something I'm sure he'd just love to work on.

 

Chris Roberts has already stated, that he would like to work on new Wing Commander... Unfortunately your employer is sitting on the IP...

[alanschu]

Star Citizen seems better than Wing Commander at this point IMO.  Wing Commander is old news.  I have faith that Mr. Roberts will deliver on something just as great.  All goes well we're hoping for a Star Citizen 2, right?

 

 

It should be noted that, at the end of the day, whatever the heck Fargo and Co. end up doing, I hope it kicks ass because I always want more kick ass games.  I just think that naming it Torment 2 will make it more difficult for them to achieve that for me, Allan Schumacher.

Edited January 26, 2013 by alanschu

[Nepenthe]

 

I get your overall view,but i have a question. How much do you think Fargo's team is restricted in this game?

 

Infinitely more than the Planescape: Torment game.  The setting itself may be new, but it was validated by Fargo as being acceptable for a Torment game.  This means that the decision to go with it meant that the idea had to be related back to the original game, so that it passed the game's standard.  It won't just be "new characters" it will be "new characters that we feel are sufficiently Torment."  It's not just a new story, but a "new story that we feel is sufficiently Torment."  These restrictions don't exist with brand new game ideas, but in the big publishing world that also makes them more risky.

For reference, see the amount of people who said that they would have been perfectly ok with Dragon Age 2, had it been called something else. And if anyone says that DAO has anything of the emblematic value that Torment does, they're crazier than I am.

[Dream]

 

 

I get your overall view,but i have a question. How much do you think Fargo's team is restricted in this game?

 

Infinitely more than the Planescape: Torment game.  The setting itself may be new, but it was validated by Fargo as being acceptable for a Torment game.  This means that the decision to go with it meant that the idea had to be related back to the original game, so that it passed the game's standard.  It won't just be "new characters" it will be "new characters that we feel are sufficiently Torment."  It's not just a new story, but a "new story that we feel is sufficiently Torment."  These restrictions don't exist with brand new game ideas, but in the big publishing world that also makes them more risky.

For reference, see the amount of people who said that they would have been perfectly ok with Dragon Age 2, had it been called something else. And if anyone says that DAO has anything of the emblematic value that Torment does, they're crazier than I am.

 

 

Also if you look at what they've released about the game it's already looking like they just took a Torment shaped stencil and started copying ****.

 

Deep question at core of story? Check.

Weird sorta-alive city? Check.

Said city connected to other planes/dimensions throughout universe? Check.

Same composer (who was probably told to make it sound like PS:T)? Check.

[alanschu]

At the same time, I do resolve to not go Fallout style in terms of my vitriol.

 

I do hope the game is fantastic.  It's just that, paradoxically, the naming is making me be mentally more guarded against it.

[BruceVC]

http://www.formspring.me/ksaun/q/422168444062946670

 

Some information around the name "Tides of Numenera"