Criticism of the concept art shown so far

[Sacred_Path]

Well, if we take a look at Aragorn up until Return of the King, he could probably fit the profile of someone who's unassuming and keeps a low profile. And although he starts out as more of a Ranger archetype, by The Two Towers he could definitely be represented by a Fighter. So there you have a Fighter who is intelligent, not likely to get into drunken brawls, who has hidden secrets that will eventually be revealed, and who is reluctant to boss others around unless it's important.

 

But Aragorn shines when he sheds his cloak of humility. When he speaks up as a leader of men he becomes impressive and noteworthy, not to mention the quite literally is a sight to behold when he takes off his concealing outfit. Will Edair be the same? Personally I don't hope so, because it's unrealistic/ cheesy. Tolkien didn't manage to reconcile the both sides of Aragorn very well IMO (but the problem lies elsewhere probably. The idea of the Grey Company probably preceded Aragorn).

[Gumbercules]

Honestly...Edair exactly fits that description. I think you're looking at Aragorn from rose-tinted glasses. We have a bland looking guy without a personality to attach him to. Or are you asking for a scar across his face? How exactly would you make Edair unimpressionable but at the same time make him memorable? I think his memorable qualities come from when you deal with him in the game.

 

I actually REALLY REALLY like Edair's concept. He's the guy you don't bother because he's bland. He's got nothing that strikes out at you. It's done so perfectly that you don't even want to add him to your party. It's beautiful...*sniff*

 

Off the top of my head, they could make him:

• Scruffy and dirty, like Aragorn.
  
• Posh and well dressed, but not flamboyant necessarily. So we'd be able to tell that he's upper class, but he doesn't go out of his way to draw attention to it.
  
• Someone wearing a mix of styles from various cultures, indicating that he travels around a lot and tries to at least partially blend in anywhere he goes.
  
• Wearing common soldier's attire that's functional but not flashy.
  
• Wearing common soldier's attire that is flashy, because maybe that's how soldiers are in the Dyrwood.
  

Right now, like many of the PE designs, I can feel phantom traces of some of those ideas, but I think that they would be more interesting looking if they were more pronounced.

 

We pretty much know that Obsidian will do a great job writing his character, and all the others. We can also assume the overal story and the gameplay mechanics will be ambitious and memorable. Those are all things that Obsidian has a reputation for being great at. I would say that the things that they have a poor reputation for are bug-ridden games and ugly or unmemorable designs (at least since NWN2). They seem to be improving as far as bugs go, if Dungeon Seige 3 is anything to go by, plus it's way too early to worry about bugs. So all that's left to worry about is the art. I was happy to back the Kickstarter, and I'll gladly play the game even if the characters end up being stick figures, but if they look great then that's even better.

 

But Aragorn shines when he sheds his cloak of humility. When he speaks up as a leader of men he becomes impressive and noteworthy, not to mention the quite literally is a sight to behold when he takes off his concealing outfit. Will Edair be the same? Personally I don't hope so, because it's unrealistic/ cheesy. Tolkien didn't manage to reconcile the both sides of Aragorn very well IMO (but the problem lies elsewhere probably. The idea of the Grey Company probably preceded Aragorn).

 

But it still shows that you can have scruffy and dirty plus intelligent. Even when he was the mysterious Strider, it's not like he was rude or belligerent. And Edair doesn't have to reveal himself as the heir to a kingdom to still have an interesting secret.

[mstark]

The fact that they still haven't officially called them the Aumaua leads me to believe that even they aren't totally satisfied with their conecpt as it stands.

The images file names are AumauaWizard and AumauaBarbarian, that should be official enough? Or maybe I misunderstand?

 

Seems those who are happy about them are actually realizing it's WIP, and try to imagine their potential, whereas those who are unhappy are preemptively picturing a disappointing final result. I suppose that might be part of the purpose of showing WIP this early, to see what feelings the concepts elicit from the community. As far as line drawings go, they're pretty damn good, and they certainly managed to get a reaction.

 

I like how this thread has created a constructive discussion, hard to believe this is actually on the internet. Good food for thought.

[Hormalakh]

Off the top of my head, they could make him:

• Scruffy and dirty, like Aragorn.
  
• Posh and well dressed, but not flamboyant necessarily. So we'd be able to tell that he's upper class, but he doesn't go out of his way to draw attention to it.
  
• Someone wearing a mix of styles from various cultures, indicating that he travels around a lot and tries to at least partially blend in anywhere he goes.
  
• Wearing common soldier's attire that's functional but not flashy.
  
• Wearing common soldier's attire that is flashy, because maybe that's how soldiers are in the Dyrwood.
  

 

What if Edair likes being clean? What if he frequents the taverns in the slums (wearing rich clothes don't make sense - he'd be robbed)? Why would he dress any differently than anyone else around him (that would bring attention to him)? How do you know that the common soldier's attire isn't what Edair is wearing? Perhaps all common soldiers are given that attire. Or perhaps he doesn't want to be known as a common solider. Maybe he wants to be seen as "that goofy guy that nobody bothers" and has nothing to steal. He's not a guard or anything, so... He's just the dude that comes to the tavern. Nobody knows him. Nobody cares.

 

It's truly beautiful how low-key he is. He's quite well done. It's like the artist is playing mind games with us.

 

He's the only guy in the image, and people just pass his image by and look at the next guy. It's like meta-awesome... I don't know how to put it... The artist has done a great job. (Did you notice that he's got a whip? I don't think a lot of people have noticed that.)

Edited December 8, 2012 by Hormalakh

[mstark]

What if this is WIP, and this is the initial concept. And once his history & story is figured out, they will make sure to adjust this WIP art to fit his character better?

 

Try not to make up a story for a guy who doesn't have one, and then proceeding to criticize his looks based upon it. Don't compare him to other characters, because we don't know if he'll be anything like them (and I hope to god he won't, unless it's intentional).

 

Edited December 8, 2012 by mstark

[Sacred_Path]

Try not to make up a story for a guy who doesn't have one, and then proceeding to criticize his looks based upon it.

 

Uh, but that was the whole point. Otherwise there's nothing to talk about yet

[Hormalakh]

Edair is the Waldo of Project Eternity. You couldn't pick the guy out in a police line-up, he's so unassuming. That's freaking awesome. I want to know what that guy is hiding. You can see something in his eyes as he looks out into the distance... The first officially bland character that I've actually wanted to be in my party.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Sacred_Path]

Edair is the Waldo of Project Eternity. You couldn't pick the guy out in a police line-up, he's so unassuming. That's freaking awesome. I want to know what that guy is hiding. You can see something in his eyes as he looks out into the distance... The first officially bland character that I've actually wanted to be in my party.

 

But what if he doesn't willingly give up his precious secret? You could beat him up, he's not v. brawny after all. Or you could try to talk it out of him. But he grew up in reform school, so he knows all the tricks.

 

Well nothing to see here, move along

[Hormalakh]

You don't know what kind of body is underneath that armor (he could be jacked, extremely strong). Or what kind of tortured soul he has...

Perhaps, he could destroy you with his soul powers and knows the all the tricks indeed....

 

FREAKING AWESOME! So...this game is coming out when again?

Edited December 8, 2012 by Hormalakh

[mstark]

He's definitely jacked. I can tell from some of these pixels and from seeing quite a few WIPs in my time.

 

But you can also tell he's clearly ticklish. When I get my hands on this game his secrets wont be as safe as he thinks.

 

Ok, we're back on the internet.

[Hormalakh]

Is this Obsidian's site or Bioware? I'm lost....

[jezz555]

You don't know what kind of body is underneath that armor (he could be jacked, extremely strong). Or what kind of tortured soul he has...

Perhaps, he could destroy you with his soul powers and knows the all the tricks indeed....

 

FREAKING AWESOME! So...this game is coming out when again?

 

You keep posting about how awesome it is that Edair looks kind of boring and generic, because you assume he's hiding some kind of shocking secret...but what if he really is just boring and generic?

[Hormalakh]

We already know he's hiding some secret. This was told to us by the devs.

[Hormalakh]

Sawyer said in the Something Aweful forums, on 9/25/12, 2:33PM:

Edair is a man who does not want to draw attention to himself.

[Nonek]

Don't mind the restrained and subtle approach, for one things it's far more rare than the over stylised cartoonish approach, and secondly it makes the fantastical elements when they appear seem all the more...well...fantastic. I'm far more interested in the Aumaua's cultural background, societal mores and unique worldview rather than whether they are as outlandish looking as possible. Then again I thought the decision to add horns to the Qunari was somewhat of a mistake, they had a strong enough image in Sten, his slight but markedly different looks and his utterly alien philosophy.

[Osvir]

Pretty much a repeat of what I said on page 1, some clarification/different wording:

With the concept art that we've got thus far, we get a bigger picture of the world, and not just a bigger picture of the "Aumaua":

http://upload.wikime...rzog_Ludwig.jpg

 

If Aumaua had been more beast-y, or monstrous animalistic, the entire visionary and imaginary picture of the world of P:E that we can see now would have been completely different.

 

It really changes the setting doesn't it? "Goggles on, goggles off"

 

Before I would have said "I want Orlans and Aumaua to be animal inspired!" but seeing the Aumaua concept art I want Orlans to be more human tbh. For some reason (because of complaints or whatnot) I'm thinking Orlans might become more beastly.

 

Otherwise I feel that Godlike races could handle the "furry"/"inhuman" aspects.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Osvir

[rjshae]

Sawyer said in the Something Aweful forums, on 9/25/12, 2:33PM:

Edair is a man who does not want to draw attention to himself.

There are many possibilities. At first I took it to mean that perhaps he's a spy, or something comparable. The best agent is one that doesn't stand out. But, of course, he could just be a wanted man who is trying to hide in plain sight. Maybe he was the son of a noble who survived a purge or an invasion? He could be the bastard son of a deposed king. Shrug.

[Hormalakh]

^^It doesn't take away from the fact that the artist did an amazing job in making players completely write him off as being "boring." That's what I find so beautiful about it.

[Gumbercules]

Alright, I concede that if they really do a good job of tying Edair's seeming blandness into his story and if all the other characters end up looking more interesting and specific, it could work nicely.

 

Shifting the topic a bit, what modern games, if any, should they be aiming for the in-game characters to look like? I admit that part of the reason I've been down on the concept art is because I've been comparing it to what games like Dark Souls and The Witcher 2 have accomplished, but those are 3rd-person games that can and should be much more detailed.

I think that DOTA 2, although obviously much more cartoonish, silly, and pandering than what Obsidian's aiming for, does a lot of good work in terms of distinct silhouettes, color schemes, and areas of rest and detail. See their character art guide: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2CharacterArtGuide.pdf

[Prosper]

I am personally disappointed that my inspirational art isn't helping them more. I keep most the models that i think are good, so if what is holding back the concept artist is a look at the 3D model itself just message me.

[Hormalakh]

Your dedication to Project Eternity is both humbling and inspiring, Prosper.

[Gumbercules]

Agreed! Edair would look much better as a wobbly sludge monster

[Haerski]

To me it seems they are trying too hard to make the concepts look unique, but in process lost something more important. Somehow these characters just don't look likeable. There is something wrong in almost all of them, but it's really hard to describe it precisely enough. Only art I would approve right on is Aloth's concept and original painted Sagani. For now I wouldn't change anything in them.

 

My problem with Aumans is pretty much the same as OP's. They are humanlike, but still different enough to make you feel uneasy. Why not make them just big humans? After all Dwarves are just small and hairy humans and no one complains? But if they want to make them different then they should definitively do something more drastic than this. Second complaint: Costumes are terrible: Barbarian in belly shirt? Wizard in... I really don't know what that thing is, but it sure looks stupid. If these totally-not-orcs even have to have wizard-class available, it should wear something more practical. That kind of decorative clothes don't feel right on this race.

 

Then there is everyones favorite, Forton: Old, bald, shirtless man in 20-year-old bodybuilders body doing some kind of anime-hero pose... and of course the flip-flops. He's like mix between western medieval Catholic monk and Bruce Lee and I really don't like the result. I have this stubborn image in my head of him in robes taking quiet stroll on yard of monastery, when there is sudden scream for help and then he rips away those robes revealing that muscular body and runs off to fight crime on the streets. It's impossible to take him seriously after that!

 

Edair and Cadegund are both ok, but nothing more than that. They just don't raise any emotions. Even if Edair is supposed to act unremarkable to hide his secrets, there should be small hunch of that "real him" in his portrait. Cadegund is even more bland. So much so I honestly can't even suggest any improvements for her. Glad the boobplate is gone though.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Haerski

[Gyor]

How can one really gage the art direction of the Amaua when we don't know what the Amaua are supposed to be or thier background/lore, ancestory?

 

The pictures before the lore is explained is putting the cart before the horse. Are the Amaua aqua cat people, orc substitutes, Goliath substitutes, Whale/Dolphin people, a human off shoot, fish or from people, something else. Until I know that I have no reference with which to judge concept art.

 

So please we need a lore update for the races so we have reference points.

I don't think that they've nailed down the Aumaua lore yet. But good points.

 

They might not have all the subraces yet, but Imagine they've got the basics done, such as universal traits and origin/place in the world.

[Gyor]

I think Forton is awesome, him and Sagani and the Elf Mage are my favourites so far.

 

Maybe some soot from Cade muskeet on her cheek would make her more interesting.

 

I'd like to see the Amaua Companion, Orlan Companion and Godlike Companion.