Player Cap

[unundindur]

I think there shouldn't be any cap at all.

 

While the campaign could go to 20, or whatever other level, it will be much easier for Modders to adapt to an infinite system, than a capped one, which will later have a higher cap (as many cried over the fact that NWN 1 went 40).

 

Of course, the modders must be allowed to set a cap for their modules, but as with anything else, the engine should be with as few limits as possible (so everything is possible to thecrazy mind).

 

Even though the official team doesn't "support" epic play in the sense of the word, they don't have to, they just have to open the possibility to others. They don't need to create a single epic monster, just provide the SYSTEMS (class progressions, feats, spells etc.) from Epic handbook.

 

The second argument for an infinite scaling, if not as good, is that D&D supports it. Acording to the current rules, there is NO maximum level.

 

I doubt anyone can convince me to think otherwise, but please try B)

[Judge Hades]

This is not Dungeons and Dragons, but Star Wars d20 and Star Wars d20 does not support infinite progession.

[Zach Morris]

After reading some of the talk about who Sion is and about the other Sith Lords and how they are going to be very powerful, I now think it makes sense to go higher than 20. I always thought that Malak felt more like an apprentice than an actual Lord so him being at level 20 makes sense. But since the Sith Lords are probably going to be more scary in the story this time around they should also be more powerful stat wise as well.

[Leferd]

Back in the good ol' days of 2d graphics, I thought my Level 7 Ranger was a complete badarse machine of evil buttkickingness. Now I realize those days of low level dominance in crpg's is long gone. Good times.

[Blackbishop]

This is not Dungeons and Dragons, but Star Wars d20 and Star Wars d20 does not support infinite progession. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The system are there for guide lines only and the rules are no way set in stone,steal, datapad or what ever.

 

Ever heard of "house rules" when playing PnP rpg's ?

[TSAdmiral]

Another thing you guys are forgetting--this game is not based off Star Wars d20. The d20 system is used as a guideline only and if the devs feel that adjustments should be made in the best interest of gameplay then they need not hesitate to do so.

[Blackbishop]

Think I already said that about the d20 system as a guide line

[Azazel005]

The only thing that irked me about the levelling was the simplicity in which every game I played, I got to level 20 no sweat. I'd like to see a higher level cap purely to have my character with more powers and skills and ra ra ra, but I'd rather it be work to even get to level 20 and certainly not a give in.

 

If I spend and extra 10 hours wandering around with part time missions and wiping out Kath Hounds, I'd like to be rewarded with expierece that I can use, but I don't want to be max level just because I the game through.

[Archmonarch]

The problem with that is kath hounds (and all other spawning enemies) gave less xp as you leveled. If they gave 75xp at lvl 6 (my personal experience after killing a few) how much do you think they give at lvl 20? The amount of time needed to level would be enormous and few (though I wager some fanatic would) would put forth the effort necessary because it grew too tedious. Tedious=no fun. Obsidian wants to make an enjoyable game. Therefore, Im fairly sure they wont follow this method.

[TSAdmiral]

I do not see ANY problem with a level 40 cap IF the leveling is well implemented and consistent.

 

The enemies will always be as strong as you to give you your due challenge. HOWEVER, the major advantage is that although your enemies may not get easier as you get more powerful, your leveing up will allow you a greater VARIETY of ways to dispatch them. The leveling may also help open up additional side quests, say, if you have a higher charisma.

 

It fully allows your character to branch out better if you so desire and provide a fuller and more dynamic experience.

[Archmonarch]

You're right, Id forgotten enemies scale in difficulty with you this time. Ignore my earlier statement. It is now redundant.

[Azazel005]

I still really think it's important if you want to reach a damn high level, you should have to work for it, the natural course of the game taking you comfortably to the highest possible level makes you feel gipped if you spent a lot of time doing optional quests, hunting down loose enemies and such.

 

In Kotor, I never finished the game without reaching level 20 sometime on the forgotten plant, I just didn't deserve to be that high a level character in some cases and more than likely some of my builds would have leveled again before completion had it not been capped because I spent so much time doing other quests/combat.

 

The highest levels of character shouldn't just be achieved by a quick run through of te game.

[Sarkile]

Enemies shouldn't scale with you though. Unless this is going to be another cheesey ToB where every peasant is level 24 and with a +5 lightsaber.

[Blackbishop]

Agreed not every "enemy" should be scaled to your level...... should have "ranked" enemies ie Sargent, LT, Cheif. and what not with them mixed in with normal static enemies , sith gaurd, and what not.

 

IMHO

[Azure79]

I agree with not every enemy getting scaled.

 

It was getting pretty ridiculous in Throne of Bhaal, where every henchmen you went up against had awesome weaponry.

 

The level cap for the original BG2 was 17 or 18, and Bioware went overboard with the expansion pack when they set the limit to 40. (I still love Bioware though. I get wet dreams everytime I think of them......wait, what?!)

 

The problem with achieving too high a level is that even if the enemies scale with you, the game becomes too easy. Not to mention it'll get cheesy with every dark apprentice you come across wielding Force Storm and Kill.

 

In ToB with my party at level 35-40 almost every battle was easy, too easy, even the last one.

 

What we need are smarter enemies, though I don't know how viable that'll be in a RPG. In ToB David Gaider later released a small add-on called Ascension which considerably made the game more challenging without resorting to cheesy tactics.

 

Since KoTOR utilizes a 3D engine, enemies should use the terrain to their advantage, or like BlackBishop suggested, small contingents of troops might be led by a captain giving them orders.

Or how about dark side lightsaber users moving in sword formations? They would recieve bonuses to attack, defense and force powers while in the formation, but a crafty character might be able to detect a weak link and appropriately exploit it leaving the enemy in disarray and confusion.

[huey27]

I liked how it worked in planescape, where you could beat the game around 15 or 16, or you could hang around spawning areas, killing creatures into infiniti and become level 50ish. That keeps both powergamers and people who prefer realistic level characters happy.

[Morgan_Hearst]

Sorry, but BG2 had a "set hard cap".

 

Also, it's been stated numerous times by both the devs and the many many previews that you aren't Revan. It might be a good idea to read up on that.

 

It did? Hmm, I was pretty sure that it didn't. I don't mean that any level was acheivible but rather that there was no predetermined level where you would be unable to make use of an xp gain.

 

Out of interest, what was the hard cap as I mustn't have hit it.

 

As for Revan, I assume you are referring to some elses post as I have never intimated that Revan was a playable character in KOTOR2.

 

Thanks.

[Darth Ravok]

I tihnk unlimited leveling would suck...

 

20-30 sounds good enough for me although 30 isnt really right for KOTOR rules.

 

Getting unlimited leveling would give u the ability to make a super uber character.... they would also have to make areas that keep spawning creatures so you could actually get the exp.

 

I believe they said the level cap is going to be 25-30.. this is good because were getting those prestige jedi classes. You could go 15 Jedi G/S/C and then 15 in the prestige class so it balances out.

 

ALSO I'm not positive but I think that they made the enemies in KOTOR balanced sort of to your level but a little bit less so you couldn't defeat them with such ease. So maybe being level 60... ur enemies would be level 55-60 or something like that. I'm pretty sure that is how it worked. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[Archmonarch]

Id always thought enemies had a set difficulty in KOTOR. I know that for me at least they definitely became easier to defeat as I leveled. Also, I believe the devs intimated the cap would be 30-40 in one of the threads.

[Stargate: 2000]

I tihnk unlimited leveling would suck...

 

1) 20-30 sounds good enough for me although 30 isnt really right for KOTOR rules.

 

2) Getting unlimited leveling would give u the ability to make a super uber character.... they would also have to make areas that keep spawning creatures so you could actually get the exp.

 

3) I believe they said the level cap is going to be 25-30.. this is good because were getting those prestige jedi classes. You could go 15 Jedi G/S/C and then 15 in the prestige class so it balances out.

 

4) ALSO I'm not positive but I think that they made the enemies in KOTOR balanced sort of to your level but a little bit less so you couldn't defeat them with such ease. So maybe being level 60... ur enemies would be level 55-60 or something like that. I'm pretty sure that is how it worked.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) I think it has been mentioned by another member that the D20 rule set isn't cannon when it comes to games that it is only used as a guide line and that it could be changed in order to improve the game play should the Devs feel that it needs to be changed.

 

2) I agree that limitless leveling might be a bad idea because "they would also have to make areas that keep spawning creatures so you could actually get the exp." IMO I think that a level cap of 40 would be nice saying the game is longer than KOTOR because it would allow you to play around more with the customization of your charactors. I know in KOTOR I was kinda ticked that I couldn't use some the of the force powers I wanted because I didn't have enough level ups to get them to the third level.

 

3) I hadn't heard that they had stated what the level cap was going to be yet. As far as I had heard it was still up in the air but it would more than likely be between 30 and 40. If you have read it some place which stated what the level cap is going to be then can you please provide a link to it so I can read it.

 

4) I know before I went to the unknown planet there wasn't much I couldn't kill by myself so I would guess that they didn't scale the enemies like that, they might have scaled them but not to the point where they were even a challange in KOTOR. Even after going to the unknown planet and to the star forge I could kill most things in one or two swipes of my lightsaber and then move on to the next one.

[Archmonarch]

Finalised what wil be max level yet? If any...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think somewhere around 30 or 40. That may still be undecided at this point.

 

-Akari

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is from Weekend Programmer #2.

[JawaJoey]

If the game's going to have more feats and powers, and all of the old ones, then they have to increase the level cap. In the first one there were problems of not having enough levels to get some of the stuff you wanted. Also, I, like most people who played the game thoroughly I'd think, reached level 20 around the beginning of the unknown world. I'd rather get powerful and finish the game and know that I could have still gotten more level and become better, than become the best I can be a not improve for the rest of the game. I think 40 levels is excessive though, 25 or 30 sounds good to me, unless you don't start at level one or something.

[darth_habbo]

if you go higher than level 20 maybe even to level 30 does that mean you are going to be way stronger than revan? (stupid question) i just thought revan was supposed to be really really strong

[Zach Morris]

One thing I know they did in Kotor for scaling was in Tantooine. If you chose Tantooine first the sand people who ambushed you were normal. If you chose tantooine later the people who ambushed you were elite sand people.

 

With all those feats and powers to choose from this time around there are to ways to think about it. Either you give us like level 40 so we can have about 40 force powers (and even more for consular). Or you could still keep it at 20 and thus increase replayability. I don't know about you but in the original KOTOR when I went light side I chose only light or universal powers. When I went Dark I only choose Dark and universal powers. If the cap is 20, I'll just pick light side powers when i'm light and dark when I'm dark. I should still be able to see most of the force powers I want that way.