Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part III).

[Karranthain]

Previous parts :

 

1) http://forums.obsidi...designs-a-plea/

 

2) http://forums.obsidi...a-plea-part-ii/

 

Opening post :

 

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :

 

 

This

 

 

 

Certainly looks better than this :

 

 

Second example :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

 

And yes, I realize that the game is isometric, and we won't see arms and armour in great detail - but that'll only make the task that much easier.

 

While we're at it, please consider using something similar for item descriptions :

 

[Karranthain]

This topic has undergone some changes since it first appeared on these forums; it evolved to become a place to dicuss various influences for armour & weapon designs. Feel free to share artwork, pictures etc. that you find appealing. If there's something that you'd see/not see in the PE, join the discussion!

 

A clarification on my stance : I'm definitely not advocating complete realism. Historical designs are, I think, a good source of inspiration, but it doesn't mean they have to be copied slavishly - taking bits and pieces out of history and using them creatively can produce very interesting results. This post best describes my preference. Verisimilitude, not necessarily realism.

 

And to end this little introduction, here's a quote from one of the developers :

 

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits . In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Karranthain

[GhoulishVisage]

So, I personally would prefer Obsidian going about this in one of two ways.

 

One, they draw inspiration from historical sources for the armor and fashion types of various cultures and they adapt those in consistent ways into the PE universe, making each of their cultures feel unique and distinct but also familiar and somewhat relateable.

This is the Witcher 2 and Dark Souls method.

 

 

 

 

Two, they could design their own consistent armor and fashion senses for each of their cultures, making each one feel fresh and inspired whilst also practical and realistic. This however runs the risk of looking a bit daft if they don't nail it just right.

This is the Lord of the Rings (movies) method.

 

 

 

 

What they should NOT do is make the armor cartoonishly exaggerated (World of Warcraft), generic and without it's own flavor (Dragon Age: Origins) or just random designs thrown about willy-nilly with no unifying themes or cultural influences one might expect a logical world to have (lots of RPGs have this problem).

Edited November 17, 2012 by GhoulishVisage

[Karranthain]

So, I personally would prefer Obsidian going about this in one of two ways.

 

One, they draw inspiration from historical sources for the armor and fashion types of various cultures and they adapt those in consistent ways into the PE universe, making each of their cultures feel unique and distinct but also familiar and somewhat relateable.

This is the Witcher 2 and Dark Souls method.

 

Two, they could design their own consistent armor and fashion senses for each of their cultures, making each one feel fresh and inspired whilst also practical and realistic. This however runs the risk of looking a bit daft if they don't nail it just right.

This is the Lord of the Rings (movies) method.

 

What they should NOT do is make the armor cartoonishly exaggerated (World of Warcraft), generic and without it's own flavor (Dragon Age: Origins) or just random designs thrown about willy-nilly with no unifying themes or cultural influences one might expect a logical world to have (lots of RPGs have this problem).

 

Both methods have their merits - though the second, as you've noted, is particularly risky. I reckon combining these solutions (i.e. using historical influence, but only as a starting point) would probably yield the best results.

 

I also strongly agree that each culture in the game should (ideally) have a distinct (and coherent) visual identity.

 

E.g.

 

Vaillans would be partly inspired by Italian city states and the Renaissance fashion.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Karranthain

[Tamerlane]

I don't know that you could call all DAO armour "generic and without its own flavour".

 

Unless you meant their lighter armour, in which case holy ****, that stuff was generic and without its own flavour.

[Vargr]

Hmm, not much to add to this discussion that hasn't been said. And the dev quote puts my fears to rest.

 

They did say there will be more primitive cultures in the world. As primitive as bronze age, I think was mentioned.

I hope we will be able to adorn our characters in such gear too, and nicely designed such.

 

This isn't really bronze age, but found this great bit of art some guy did for one of his characters in a PnP RPG.

 

 

I hope there will be armors of *roughly* that style in P:E.

Of course, tied to one of the more primitive cultures.

[Merlkir]

That's Perkan, his stuff is awesome overall.

 

http://perkan.deviantart.com/

[Karranthain]

And here's another for the more primitive cultures, perhaps Glanfathan berserkers?

 

 

Gotta love those Saxon helmets.

[Darth Trethon]

 

 

 

^^^THIS!!! This is just perfect. The more PE's style resembles this image right here the better. Screw realism and screw being historically accurate. I do NOT play games/watch movies/read books because they resemble reality. F reality.....if I wanted that I'd go fall asleep in a history class or watch the news or something.

[Merlkir]

I think you could try a bit harder, not quite there yet.

[Vargr]

That's Perkan, his stuff is awesome overall.

 

http://perkan.deviantart.com/

 

Was looking through his art there. Definitely a very talented guy.

 

.............

 

...................

 

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Damn it! Now I want a Trudvang pc-rpg...!

[GhoulishVisage]

Gotta love those Saxon helmets.

 

As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

 

 

 

The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.

[Karranthain]

Gotta love those Saxon helmets.

 

As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

 

The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.

 

Definitely, I'm getting strong Celtic vibes just from the name. The artwork posted by Vargr fits the bill

 

This one does as well, it's a rather eclectic mix of various influences.

 

 

And another :

 

Edited November 18, 2012 by Karranthain

[Darth Trethon]

Gotta love those Saxon helmets.

 

As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

 

The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.

 

Definitely, I'm getting strong Celtic vibes just from the name. The artwork posted by Vargr fits the bill

 

This one does as well, it's a rather eclectic mix of various influences.

 

 

Meh, they look like drunks caught unaware at the bar or in their pijamas(lol at the first picture in the post above) that happened to find some sword/shield/whatever laying around.....hardly epic or worth bothering with.

 

For the most part uncivilized brutes are not really something worth placing much focus on.....yeah they usually appear in minor faction or minor NPCs and perhaps as a companion but not really much worth paying attention to beyond taking a couple of minutes out of your game to kill.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Darth Trethon

[Vargr]

@Karranthain

 

Love those! Don't like the head of the second one, but the overall vibe is great!

First one is absolutely spot on for how I hope barbarians/berserkers (the traditional ones at least) are realised in the game.

 

 

Not sure whether to bother replying to Darth Trethon or not... Is he trolling or is he not?

 

 

Ah well;

 

 

I think those barbaric images are epic as all hell. I wouldn't want to see them all over the place in P:E though. Only in more remote wilderness areas, being

removed from the civilized lands. But that's the point.

 

Maybe even have some nice, healthy, Howardian "Civilization vs Barbarism"- themes. That would make my day!

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

Well, for some reason I couldn't post pictures, but here's a few links to some kettle hat designs, something that I'd like to see:

 

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

4.

[Karranthain]

Well, for some reason I couldn't post pictures, but here's a few links to some kettle hat designs, something that I'd like to see:

 

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

4.

 

You'll like this one, I bet :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sallets are awesome.

[Elerond]

Russian lamellar armour

 

[Elerond]

16th century bullet proofed infantry half-plate from Majorca, which has nice conquistador feel on it

 

[Merlkir]

Russian lamellar armour

 

 

Bronze age Siberia iirc. There's a whole series of these paintings from a particular website, wonderful stuff.

[GhoulishVisage]

 

Huh, I never knew Ammon Jerro was Celtish.

 

But seriously though, I'm liking that design in particular, even though it's looking a bit more Scottish that Celtish.

A Scottish culture in the game would be pretty damned cool as well.

[Karranthain]

Huh, I never knew Ammon Jerro was Celtish.

 

But seriously though, I'm liking that design in particular, even though it's looking a bit more Scottish that Celtish.

A Scottish culture in the game would be pretty damned cool as well.

 

Now that you mention it, he does look like Jerro

Edited November 18, 2012 by Karranthain

[Darth Trethon]

Russian lamellar armour

 

16th century bullet proofed infantry half-plate from Majorca, which has nice conquistador feel on it

 

 

Do you guys realize how stupid these thing look? Not to mention that in a world full of dangerous magic the silly outfits provide as much protection as a paper towel and make as much logical sense as poking out your own eye.

[GhoulishVisage]

Do you guys realize how stupid these thing look? Not to mention that in a world full of dangerous magic the silly outfits provide as much protection as a paper towel and make as much logical sense as poking out your own eye.

 

Eh, the Russian armor looks a bit silly, but the Conquistador armor looks good.

 

Second part of your post makes less sense the more I try to read it. Need a bit of clarification on that one.

[Nonek]

Looking at the Celtic illustrations I wouldn't really mind if there were Glenfathan runes/tattoo's of warding or somesuch that protected the body like armour, though dispellable perhaps, like when Arnie storms Thulsa Dhooms lair in Conan the Barbarian. Something that's not in any way as good as stout plate harness but has the advantages of aiding stealth and being not so expensive, the poor barbarians choice I suppose when he can only afford an old padded vest or whatever as protection.