Fallout 4 Obsidian Petition

[NOK222]

Blah Blah I hate bethesda, we get it.

[WastelandShadow]

Blah Blah I hate bethesda, we get it.

 

If you aren't enjoying discussing the topic at hand, you are more than welcome to GTFO.

[Lorfean]

New Vegas is one of my all-time favorite games and I would love for Obsidian to make another Fallout title but this petition reads like a fanboy's rantings and is full of typos and grammatical errors to boot. It's not gonna help anyone.

 

Bethesda played to their strengths with F3 -- they created an atmospherically rich and impressive world, threw in a ton of content that they felt thematically fit the Fallout universe and gave players complete freedom to do whatever they wanted within that world. Of course it greatly lacked cohesion and its storytelling and C&C were weak compared to its predecessors (to say the least) but a LOT of people -- especially those who never played F1 and F2 -- loved it. Similarly, Obsidian played to their strengths with F:NV and created an amazing role-playing game that felt like a true successor to F1 and F2 but, of course, a lot of people who liked F3 disliked NV... Basically each game, perhaps unwittingly, appealed to a different type of audience (with some crossover between those audiences of course) and I think Bethesda is fine with that and will stick to whatever plan it has for Fallout 4.

[mkreku]

For the record, I thought Fallout 3 was good.

 

..but Fallout: New Vegas was ****ing spectacular.

[BladeO]

Is this the petition that says Bethesda did crazy retcons? I assure you, the "retcons", which were pretty much only plotholes, were a lot worse in Oblivion, a lot worse. Michael Kirkbride had to work his ass off to provide a reasonable explanation. In the end he managed to make Oblivion's lore look like it was deep and stuff, when it was pretty much the FOBOS of TES. In Skyrim they were a lot truer to pre-established lore (not counting Dawnguard). Sure, the writing ended up being crap but that is mostly because the idea they had about giving you the Daggerfall feeling of random skirmish like quests. Too bad that with the incredibly linear and dumbed down dungeons of Skyrim and with the limitations of their terrible engine this idea was doomed for failure. But you can definately see that they took ideas from Obsidian, especially looking at the idea of the Civil War which was rather badly implemented, sadly. The true writing capabilities of Bethesda will be shown by this Dragonborn DLC, that's what I'm thinking at least.

Still I would like Obsidian to have the Fallout franchise. I don't particularly hate Bethesda, at least not the devs and the lower ranking officials, I actually feel somewhat sorry for them. It must be terrible seeing all the corruption spreading in the place they worked at for a long time and having to suffer from terrible management. Looking at these facts and the rumors of the Boston setting, it's a gamble between F:BOS bad or passable. Also, did NMA really issue death threats? Wow, and I thought my opinion of that place couldn't get lower.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Also, did NMA really issue death threats? Wow, and I thought my opinion of that place couldn't get lower.

 

It doesn't. We actually have a policy against that stuff, but hey, feel free to lower your opinion! It's not like you'll actually check anyway.

[BladeO]

It doesn't. We actually have a policy against that stuff, but hey, feel free to lower your opinion! It's not like you'll actually check anyway.

Last time I checked the mods at No Mutants Allowed were only banning people who said that NMA's almost obsessive hating on Fallout 3 is more pathetic than Bethesda itself and for daring to argue for F3. The last time was today, btw. Don't get me wrong, I don't really like F3 either, ignoring the MQ and focusing on TES style exploration and side quests in a Fallout title is criminal to say the least, but what NMA does is not only pointless (if they did it at the Bethesda forums I would say it wasn't since the devs actually read the stuff there) but also over the top. The attitude presented at NMA and in that petition as well will only cement the rest of the gaming industry's belief that we're just stupid whiners and they'll give Bethesda the go-ahead for dumbed down games with main questlines so cringeworthy that there's nothing salvagable about them.

Edited November 15, 2012 by BladeO

[NOK222]

Also, did NMA really issue death threats? Wow, and I thought my opinion of that place couldn't get lower.

 

It doesn't. We actually have a policy against that stuff, but hey, feel free to lower your opinion! It's not like you'll actually check anyway.

 

So you're a member, makes sense.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Also, did NMA really issue death threats? Wow, and I thought my opinion of that place couldn't get lower.

 

It doesn't. We actually have a policy against that stuff, but hey, feel free to lower your opinion! It's not like you'll actually check anyway.

 

So you're a member, makes sense.

 

And this is why I wasn't replying to your allegation. When people aren't even willing to check the rules and believe you despite the fact that, when confronted, you never presented proof, what's the point of even discussing this?

 

You don't like that old-school fans dislike Bethesda's interpretation of the setting? That's fine. But it would be p. cool if you didn't make allegations like that. That's all I have to say about this.

[BladeO]

Oh my God. That site seriously needs to be taken down. Unfortunately, people associate Obsidian fans with NMA people.

[WastelandShadow]

Snip

 

The first two aren't anything to get excited about imo. "****suckers" is obviously not literal, and I actually wish Bethesda as a company would just die off as well. I see no problem with that. The other is obviously a joke based on actual evidence of developers paying off reviewers to give their games good reviews. A LOT of developers do this and IGN is one of the biggest culprits on the reviewer side. I wouldn't put it past Bethesda.

 

The last 2 are from a guy that looks like he has a huge superiority complex. If he's the owner of NMA, so what? His actions don't reflect the entire user base.

 

Oh, and once again, WHO THE **** CARES? If you want to make a thread about dissing NMA, go ahead but keep that irrelevant **** off this one.

Edited November 15, 2012 by WastelandShadow

[BladeO]

The first two aren't anything to get excited about imo. "****suckers" is obviously not literal, and I actually wish Bethesda as a company would just die off as well. I see no problem with that. The other is obviously a joke based on actual evidence of developers paying off reviewers to give their games good reviews. A LOT of developers do this and IGN is one of the biggest culprits on the reviewer side. I wouldn't put it past Bethesda.

Bethesda doesn't need to die, it just needs to be reformed. Hire back the people who worked on Morrowind, Daggerfall and the Pitt and somehow make them independent from Zenimax. Todd Howard also needs to be demoted.

And yes, gaming journalism is indeed corrupt, the whole ME3 thing showed us that. But it's not explicitly paying off people, just wanting the big companies to keep supplying them with premier stuff or whatever the hell.

[NOK222]

Snip

 

The first two aren't anything to get excited about imo. "****suckers" is obviously not literal, and I actually wish Bethesda as a company would just die off as well. I see no problem with that. The other is obviously a joke based on actual evidence of developers paying off reviewers to give their games good reviews. A LOT of developers do this and IGN is one of the biggest culprits on the reviewer side. I wouldn't put it past Bethesda.

 

The last 2 are from a guy that looks like he has a huge superiority complex. If he's the owner of NMA, so what? His actions don't reflect the entire user base.

 

Oh, and once again, WHO THE **** CARES? If you want to make a thread about dissing NMA, go ahead but keep that irrelevant **** off this one.

 

You seem to be part of that fan base.

[WastelandShadow]

Bethesda doesn't need to die, it just needs to be reformed. Hire back the people who worked on Morrowind, Daggerfall and the Pitt and somehow make them independent from Zenimax. Todd Howard also needs to be demoted.

And yes, gaming journalism is indeed corrupt, the whole ME3 thing showed us that. But it's not explicitly paying off people, just wanting the big companies to keep supplying them with premier stuff or whatever the hell.

 

If they can make a good TES game it doesn't mean they can make a good Fallout game. I don't see them getting any better in the future but I do hope I am wrong.

 

 

You seem to be part of that fan base.

 

Yes I am a fan of Fallout... Isn't everyone on this thread?

[BladeO]

If they can make a good TES game it doesn't mean they can make a good Fallout game. I don't see them getting any better in the future but I do hope I am wrong.

Still, I would greatly prefer Morrowind with guns, over Oblivion/Skyrim with guns. Also, I have this feeling that they're gonna do a "choose who you side with" MQ, because they're really trying to copy Obsidian. Have you heard about the Dragonborn DLC? It's about the first Dragonborn, and he has a temple, and presumably he hates the PC. Ring a bell? Good unoriginality is better than bad unoriginality imo, just a weak version of NV's MQ would be better than the terrible F3 MQ.

 

Yes I am a fan of Fallout... Isn't everyone on this thread?

He simply means you are too harsh on Bethesda. It's not really the average dev's or even Todd Howard's fault that Obsidian got screwed over, it's the higher officials', the people who make such poor decisions like hiring that Vogel dude who is responsible for TORtanic, from what I've heard. Now, take a look at Bioware, they're basically EAware now, that's an example of a developer team that needs to get wiped off the face of this Earth. Bethesda can still change, they just have to resist the higher-ups' bullying. Bethesda will only become a true "villain" if they stop modding support and things like that.

Edited November 15, 2012 by BladeO

[NOK222]

The one to blame is wonder woman's husband? +1 to whoever catches that

[Brother None]

The last 2 are from a guy that looks like he has a huge superiority complex. If he's the owner of NMA, so what? His actions don't reflect the entire user base.

 

Those posts are from Roshambo, famed grumbly old man who once cameod in Fallout: Tactics. He was never the owner of NMA, though he was an admin, and has been gone from the site since before Fallout 3's release. Using posts from him from 5 years ago to reflect on NMA now seems a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm an admin from NMA, and while not the owner I am in charge of the site right now. I can't answer for every singly post made by every singly user but we do have very strict rules against any kind of threats. It, like piracy, has a zero-tolerance policy. No threat has ever been uttered from NMA itself and any user uttering threats on the forums are given strikes or banned, with their posts removed. No doubt such posts have been posted at times, but NKKKK can't find them because they're gone, because we do not allow that behavior. We do have a more critical tone and that no doubt brings in some folk who think that kind of behaviour is ok, but they don't last, because we as mods are not ok with that behaviour, and have fostered a community that knows the limits of good behaviour. Just like we rooted out any kind of cross-community trolling. It's really that simple.

 

Everyone is welcome to join our forums. We have plenty of users who like Fallout 3 and/or New Vegas better than the classics. If you opt to base your opinions instead on spurious claims like "NMA issued death threats", then I probably can't convince you to give us a fair chance, and we'll go our merry ways.

 

but what NMA does is not only pointless (if they did it at the Bethesda forums I would say it wasn't since the devs actually read the stuff there) but also over the top.

 

What do we do? Post news and discuss it? Write articles? Doesn't seem so over the top. Also, the devs of Bethesda actually do read NMA, from lower down to higher up, and devs from Obsidian even more so, since many of them really like the site. But the function of the site is not really to try to convince Bethesda of anything, it's why we don't do or back petitions like this one. Bethesda will do what they want to do, we have never been their target audience and that's fine. But we do like to give fans of the old games and of certain "old-school" RPG styles a place to call home, and have been having a lot of fun supporting Wasteland 2. It's a good time to be an NMAer, really.

 

There, that's the NMA topic closer, I'm sure this thread will get back on topic now.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Brother None

[WastelandShadow]

If they can make a good TES game it doesn't mean they can make a good Fallout game. I don't see them getting any better in the future but I do hope I am wrong.

Still, I would greatly prefer Morrowind with guns, over Oblivion/Skyrim with guns. Also, I have this feeling that they're gonna do a "choose who you side with" MQ, because they're really trying to copy Obsidian. Have you heard about the Dragonborn DLC? It's about the first Dragonborn, and he has a temple, and presumably he hates the PC. Ring a bell? Good unoriginality is better than bad unoriginality imo, just a weak version of NV's MQ would be better than the terrible F3 MQ.

 

Yes I am a fan of Fallout... Isn't everyone on this thread?

He simply means you are too harsh on Bethesda. It's not really the average dev's or even Todd Howard's fault that Obsidian got screwed over, it's the higher officials', the people who make such poor decisions like hiring that Vogel dude who is responsible for TORtanic, from what I've heard. Now, take a look at Bioware, they're basically EAware now, that's an example of a developer team that needs to get wiped off the face of this Earth. Bethesda can still change, they just have to resist the higher-ups' bullying. Bethesda will only become a true "villain" if they stop modding support and things like that.

 

That is where I disagree. For me it's either Fallout or not. If they do another TES with guns I just won't buy the game. It's probably because I just don't like TES games. Oh, and that isn't ringing any bells... Could you explain?

 

It's both. I do feel that Zenimax is the biggest problem we have here, but the team at Bethesda is still not right for a Fallout game. From random interviews you can tell where their mindset is.

 

The last 2 are from a guy that looks like he has a huge superiority complex. If he's the owner of NMA, so what? His actions don't reflect the entire user base.

 

Those posts are from Roshambo, famed grumbly old man who once cameod in Fallout: Tactics. He was never the owner of NMA, though he was an admin, and has been gone from the site since before Fallout 3's release. Using posts from him from 5 years ago to reflect on NMA now seems a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm an admin from NMA, and while not the owner I am in charge of the site right now. I can't answer for every singly post made by every singly user but we do have very strict rules against any kind of threats. It, like piracy, has a zero-tolerance policy. No threat has ever been uttered from NMA itself and any user uttering threats on the forums are given strikes or banned, with their posts removed. No doubt such posts have been posted at times, but NKKKK can't find them because they're gone, because we do not allow that behavior. We do have a more critical tone and that no doubt brings in some folk who think that kind of behaviour is ok, but they don't last, because we as mods are not ok with that behaviour, and have fostered a community that knows the limits of good behaviour. Just like we rooted out any kind of cross-community trolling. It's really that simple.

 

Everyone is welcome to join our forums. We have plenty of users who like Fallout 3 and/or New Vegas better than the classics. If you opt to base your opinions instead on spurious claims like "NMA issued death threats", then I probably can't convince you to give us a fair chance, and we'll go our merry ways.

 

but what NMA does is not only pointless (if they did it at the Bethesda forums I would say it wasn't since the devs actually read the stuff there) but also over the top.

 

What do we do? Post news and discuss it? Write articles? Doesn't seem so over the top. Also, the devs of Bethesda actually do read NMA, from lower down to higher up, and devs from Obsidian even more so, since many of them really like the site. But the function of the site is not really to try to convince Bethesda of anything, it's why we don't do or back petitions like this one. Bethesda will do what they want to do, we have never been their target audience and that's fine. But we do like to give fans of the old games and of certain "old-school" RPG styles a place to call home, and have been having a lot of fun supporting Wasteland 2. It's a good time to be an NMAer, really.

 

There, that's the NMA topic closer, I'm sure this thread will get back on topic now.

 

Thanks for clearing all that up.

Edited November 15, 2012 by WastelandShadow

[Continuum]

I enjoyed BOTH Fallout 3 and New Vegas, although I did like New Vegas better. I don't get the Bethesda hate. If it was that they make buggy games, ok. But F:NV was just as buggy if not more so, since it used the same engine.

[mkreku]

The Bethesda hate is just ridiculous to anyone of normal intelligence or above.

 

You like the original Fallouts? Good for you, keep playing them.

You dislike the new Fallouts? Don't buy them, don't play them.

 

Without Bethesda, Fallout would still be in the hands of Herve and his rats. I am very grateful to Bethesda for buying the rights and resurrecting this awesome series.

[NOK222]

Fallout should be in the hands of the new Black Isle Studios

 

:D

[Farbautisonn]

Fallout should be in the hands of the new Black Isle Studios

 

:D

 

May a thousand firebeetles infest your breeches!

[BladeO]

Without Bethesda, Fallout would still be in the hands of Herve and his rats. I am very grateful to Bethesda for buying the rights and resurrecting this awesome series.

Or Bioware, which would be a lot worse actually. Even if the old Bioware got to do it - any semblance of moral complexity replaced with paladin good guy and stupid evil. At least Bethesda tried to do some gray and grey morality with some of the side quests and the DLCs.

 

That is where I disagree. For me it's either Fallout or not. If they do another TES with guns I just won't buy the game. It's probably because I just don't like TES games. Oh, and that isn't ringing any bells... Could you explain?

Have you played Morrowind and Daggerfall (or Redguard and Battlespire)? It's a bad habit of certain Fallout fans, judging Bethesda on their current stuff and saying that it's been always like this, while never even bothering to play the early TES titles.

Also, sorry I wasn't clear. They're basically doing TES: Lonesome Road. First Dragonborn, the original Courier Six; Miraak Temple, Ulysses' Temple... Probably the story will be quite different in the end, but the inspiration from Lonesome Road is very obvious. Of course it remains to be seen how they do it, but I have a feeling it's gonna be better than the core game.

 

It's both. I do feel that Zenimax is the biggest problem we have here, but the team at Bethesda is still not right for a Fallout game. From random interviews you can tell where their mindset is.

The Todd Howard interviews? I would argue that at points he seemed to be embarassed when being asked about the story and he also said that they're "not there yet" when it comes to characters with depth and choices with consequences. Also, I'm kind of hoping that some mid-level Bethesda people would try to fight for some more independence from Zenimax, they have to see that their fates basically hang upon how succesful the TES MMO will become. If TES Online becomes a WoW killer then BGS can kiss their jobs goodbye, they won't be needed anymore.

[alanschu]

Always a pleasure seeing people wish I was unemployed!

[NOK222]

Always a pleasure seeing people wish I was unemployed!

 

It's pretty funny.

 

If it does happen though, move to Cali and work here, I'm sure your talents would be appreciated.