How much is 4 million?

[Bryant]

Getting to 4 million was a great achievement but how much is it actually. What are the costs of modern day video game development, and will the game be hamstrung by the budget. This is a genuine question, I have no idea how much it would cost to make a game of this type.

[UncleBourbon]

There are a few discussions regarding this already, see:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61750-question-regarding-development-costs/page__hl__budget#entry1252569

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61919-break-down-of-funds/page__hl__budget#entry1260876

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61770-is-4m-enough/page__hl__budget

 

That should give you some idea.

[Sensuki]

Long story short

 

Edited October 27, 2012 by Sensuki

[BSoda]

GTA IV is believed to be one of the (if not the) most expensive (non mmo) video game made so far. It cost ~100 Million

A title in the sales-wise successful COD franchise goes for about ~30 million.

The Witcher 2 cost around ~10 million.

 

...and I think BG2 was around 5 million.

[C2B]

GTA IV is believed to be one of the (if not the) most expensive (non mmo) video game made so far. It cost ~100 Million

A title in the sales-wise successful COD franchise goes for about ~30 million.

The Witcher 2 cost around ~10 million.

 

...and I think BG2 was around 5 million.

 

The Witcher 2 is bad for a direct comparison. The same game made in the US would have probably cost a lot more.

[GuybrushWilco]

Those games would cost a lot more to make, because they were all utilizing the very latest graphics technology, with huge 3D worlds and were fully voiced. I would think that Project Eternity won't be seeking to use the latest and greatest tech, and won't be fully voiced, that it should be considerably cheaper to make.

[JOG]

Let's see:

4.1 million minus 10% Kickstarter+Amazon = 3.7 million

3.7 million minus 30% taxes = 2.6 million net income

2.6 million divided by 1.5 years developing time = 1.73 millions per year.

 

For 1.73 millions you can employ 23 people with 75k gross earnings.

 

Of course there is still other stuff to pay like rents or power bills and costs for external contractors like voice-acting, download services or pressing the DVDs.

Edited October 27, 2012 by JOG

[Sensuki]

There's also the cost of physical goods to deduct as well. No 10% deduction from Paypal funds either.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Sensuki

[Karranthain]

One good game. An extraordinary game. What levy must be paid for such a thing?

 

Apparently $4 million.

[markness05]

Considering they felt it was possible with 1.1 million, I'm not too worried.

[Osvir]

Considering they felt it was possible with 1.1 million, I'm not too worried.

 

I'm remembering seeing a Kickstarter, can't remember which one (couple of months ago... I think it was the spiritual successor to Space Quest?). They spoke of that they had to reach the goal, to get even more funding from some other established source (Investors). I don't know if this applies to P:E but reaching 1.1M might give them funding elsewhere?

 

I don't think the actual budget is much of a problem, but time. Time is what is going to make P:E good, and 18 months is a short amount of time. I would like to see Obsidian take more time, even up to 30 months, and they should plan accordingly in my opinion. The last update with Sawyer he speaks about these things, a really big world and 15 level mega dungeon. Albeit it is jokingly, there is seriousness in his tone as well, I felt that 18 months won't make it.

 

It seems to me that many fans agree with this too, and many even say they could wait 24-30 months. Some even suggest up to 3 years. Yes it's a pain in the A to have to wait longer, but it will be so much more rewarding (something many fans agree with too).

 

Update 28:

http://forums.obsidi...o/#entry1260691

Edited October 27, 2012 by Osvir

[Rabain]

Time is money, the longer you take to complete something, the more it costs. Pushing out the release date with a goal of producing a better game has the knock on effect of costing more and thus your budget is much more stretched and you are just restricted in a different way.

[Osvir]

Time is money, the longer you take to complete something, the more it costs. Pushing out the release date with a goal of producing a better game has the knock on effect of costing more and thus your budget is much more stretched and you are just restricted in a different way.

 

Of course, but if 1.1M (100%) was intended for 18 months, then I'm sure that 4.1M (~375%) would equal a longer production.

 

If it can be calculated as such (which I don't think it can be to be honest) it would be, just something to reflect on:

1.1M = 18 months (1 and 1/2 year)

2.2M = 36 months (3 years)

3.3M = 54 months (4 and 1/2 year)

4.4M = 72 months (6 years)

Edited October 27, 2012 by Osvir

[Sensuki]

Brent Knowles, one of the ex-BG2 developers said most of the development was done within a year.

 

http://blog.brentknowles.com/2009/09/17/bioware-brent-year-2-2000-2001/

 

"I really liked the ‘one year of development and then ship’ experience I had on Baldur’s Gate 2"

[Grand_Commander13]

Let's see:

4.1 million minus 10% Kickstarter+Amazon = 3.7 million

3.7 million minus 30% taxes = 2.6 million net income

2.6 million divided by 1.5 years developing time = 1.73 millions per year.

 

For 1.73 millions you can employ 23 people with 75k gross earnings.

 

Of course there is still other stuff to pay like rents or power bills and costs for external contractors like voice-acting, download services or pressing the DVDs.

The Kickstarter money is revenue, not income. I don't believe they need to realize it until they've shipped the game, after which it and the money from the sales will be combined together and compared against the cost of making the game.

 

Short version: they don't pay taxes on all of that money, and likely not right away.

[Ignatius]

A better question is: How much did Baldur's Gate 2 cost? Because this game is closer to that than to some mega production like Dragon Age or Modern Warfare.

 

Never mind, should read threads. lol Five million for BG2? Psh, then this'll be cake. Though this does feature quite a bit more content... Hmmm.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Ignatius

[Barrabus]

GTA IV is believed to be one of the (if not the) most expensive (non mmo) video game made so far. It cost ~100 Million

A title in the sales-wise successful COD franchise goes for about ~30 million.

The Witcher 2 cost around ~10 million.

 

...and I think BG2 was around 5 million.

 

Actually, I think Star Wars The old Republic is the most expensive video game ever developed (but it's mmo, so nevermind). According to wikipedia it cost 150-200 million to make.

 

On topic, 4million is enough for this type of game, imo.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Barrabus

[UncleBourbon]

GTA IV is believed to be one of the (if not the) most expensive (non mmo) video game made so far. It cost ~100 Million

A title in the sales-wise successful COD franchise goes for about ~30 million.

The Witcher 2 cost around ~10 million.

 

...and I think BG2 was around 5 million.

 

Actually, I think Star Wars The old Republic is the most expensive video game ever developed. According to wikipedia it cost 150-200 million to make.

 

On topic, 4million is enough for this type of game, imo.

 

I should think especially so given that PE is using an Obsidian original setting and ruleset, and a pre-existing engine that many of the developers have worked with previously.

[CheeseGraterSuicide]

So I found the question of taxes and Kickstarter somewhat interesting. I Googled around, and found out that Amazon immediately files a tax form to the IRS after a Kickstarter campaign is completed, and the money IS eligible to be taxed. As far as how much is taxed, some articles claim leftover money is taxed after the first year. Others say not. Some say it all depends, and none of it may be taxed whatsoever. So yeah...it's a bit of a legal maze. Bottom line is, anyone with a Kickstarter might want to have a good accountant(s).

[Zoma]

It was mentioned in interviews that Feargus was especially particular with the cost and budgeting of the game. I like to think he had already considered about the taxation issue.

[Grand_Commander13]

It's taxable, but only after their expenses have been paid out. Since it will likely cost more than four million dollars to make the game, I doubt they'll pay a dime in taxes on the Kickstarter funds.

 

Here's to hoping the Kickstarter money comes in rather early in Obsidian's fiscal year.

[CheeseGraterSuicide]

It was mentioned in interviews that Feargus was especially particular with the cost and budgeting of the game. I like to think he had already considered about the taxation issue.

I'm sure Obsidian knows what they're doing. I was just trying to get an idea of how much might be taken out of the 4.1 million.

It's taxable, but only after their expenses have been paid out. Since it will likely cost more than four million dollars to make the game, I doubt they'll pay a dime in taxes on the Kickstarter funds.

 

Here's to hoping the Kickstarter money comes in rather early in Obsidian's fiscal year.

Yes, this sounds like a fair summary of everything I read. Thanks.

Edited October 27, 2012 by CheeseGraterSuicide

[Chunkyman]

While I would have preferred a 40 million billion dollar budget, 4 million will be adequate to make a good game.

[Shoeless Joe Jackson]

So I found the question of taxes and Kickstarter somewhat interesting. I Googled around, and found out that Amazon immediately files a tax form to the IRS after a Kickstarter campaign is completed, and the money IS eligible to be taxed. As far as how much is taxed, some articles claim leftover money is taxed after the first year. Others say not. Some say it all depends, and none of it may be taxed whatsoever. So yeah...it's a bit of a legal maze. Bottom line is, anyone with a Kickstarter might want to have a good accountant(s).

 

I'd imagine the fees charged by Amazon and Kickstarter is liable to tax for those two in the current year given that their transaction ends once they receive their money.

 

As regards Obsidian, I would think the funds are considered deferred income until the game is actually released, at which point they get transferred to turnover and are taxable as income in the financial period in which the game is released.

 

However, the whole crowdfunding thing is a somewhat murky issue. People make pledges but they don't necessarily have to request the associated awards (the obligating event for revenue recognition) so to some extent they could be considered donations as Obsidian may not be required to give these people anything.

 

I suspect some sort of clarification from the appropriate tax authorities as to how to treat these funds will be given, if it hasn't been already.

[Archmage Silver]

GTA IV is believed to be one of the (if not the) most expensive (non mmo) video game made so far. It cost ~100 Million

A title in the sales-wise successful COD franchise goes for about ~30 million.

The Witcher 2 cost around ~10 million.

 

...and I think BG2 was around 5 million.

 

The numbers for Baldur's Gate II aren't official, and even then they wouldn't be inflation adjusted.