What is the Soul? Lore!

[Osvir]

So I've been thinking, what is the soul?

 

This topic might have popped up before (I didn't check all the pages). But I generally want to discuss what the soul is, not some mumbo-jumbo Magic system. But from a Lore perspective countered with a Real-Life perspective.

 

To me, Soul is everything that has to do with Music/Dancing/Laughing/Loving/Hating for instance (Breathing/Living... Being. "I Am"). Soul/Creativity is the same thing to me.

 

But in a fantasy setting, what kind of role could the Soul have? Would it be a ghostly Aura that encompasses every living being? (Plants, trees, heck even rocks, clothes, insects, humans. Life). Is the Ghost-mode in World of Warcraft an implication of "The Soul" and how it could be used in a game? (I think it is, and when World of Warcraft came out everyone was shrieking "YOU CAN BE A GHOST!! Awesuuum!!!". This might have degenerated over the years, but don't forget the shadows of the past).

 

What happens to the Soul when the "Vessel" is gone? Per say, if your character dies, could your Soul then move on and fit itself in a new character?

 

In case of a perma-death, could the Soul be the answer to the "New Game+"? xD lol

Would your 2nd character benefit from your 1st character dying? In a sense they already have the same Soul (You <3) but I am thinking if you could benefit from it in-game, having some sort of benefit to it.

 

EDIT: If you thought the above was Mumbo-Jumbo, the below is Mumbo-Jumbo Deluxe. I know I said I wouldn't get into those aspects but I'm just free-styling my posts. I might intend them to be something when I write the first paragraph, but it kind of transforms by itself. Flowin'

 

What the fuzz are you thinking Osvir?

 

I create a character, but I didn't make him proper. He be dead after the first two or three encounters.

Now I get the option to create a new character from scratch or create a new character with the same Soul as my previous character.

 

Eh, so what's the benefits?

 

Statistically your character could get +1 (or some other absurdly weak low number) to attack towards the creature/being that took you down. Heck maybe you won't even get anything at all except your own insight.

 

That's all?

 

Well, roleplaying-esque (depending on how far you get into the game) there could be rare banter's. Companions that you met last game that react "There is something familiar about you" type of deal~ Quests that react to you~ "Hmm strange, I was sure someone with a similar Soul like yours passed by here before to carry my message to [point B] before...".

 

In Planescape: Torment, if you died, you would always get back to the Mortuary (wrong? I only died early game a couple of times before I learned to do better, I don't know if this persists throughout the entire game). Could this be something that Obsidian is aiming towards? Where, when you die, the game doesn't restart but you restart from a "Checkpoint"?

 

With the Soul being in focus here in P:E, would it be unlikely to see something like this in the game?

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 5, 2012 by Osvir

[Osvir]

Can't edit first post but:

 

http://www.rockpaper...ool-innovation/

"and the concept of self in a world where souls transfer from being to being" - Avellone

 

Big give-away.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Osvir

[rjshae]

It's made of little bacteria called midichloria mitrochonrii. They surround us, penetrate us, and bind the universe together.

[Osvir]

It's made of little bacteria called midichloria mitrochonrii. They surround us, penetrate us, and bind the universe together.

 

Hahaha xD

[Flying Magician]

As Epicurus said, soul is an unknown thing made of unknown material needed for unknown purpose.

[Ieo]

There was a RipTen interview too:

 

 

RipTen: The Soul system/philosophy seems to underpin everything about what we know of Project Eternity (setting, society, etc). Can you talk a bit about how that will be woven throughout the combat and non-combat experience? In other words, how will souls link the narrative with the interactive aspects?

 

Chris Avellone: We don’t want to give too much away on the story and narration at this point. That said, the idea of souls persisting from being to being, and being reborn and finding homes in people is a concept that not only gives more strength to the world and connections between individuals, but the purest (unfragmented) souls are able to allow individuals to create tremendous displays of power… and even souls that have fractured and shattered over time are capable of magic as well, although in different respects. This directly fuels our combat and ability system, and it is the source of the player’s and companions’ power, for example.

 

Also, equally important, it factors into the cultures and theology of the world. The soul doesn’t die, there is proof it persists over time, and that in itself does a great deal to change people’s outlook and behavior… as well as those of factions, nations, and their rulers.

 

Interesting. Soul really touches on, well, everything substantive in the narrative and all combat mechanics, looks like.

[Humodour]

As somebody who is non-religious it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least a less irrational name?

 

I do not want to play a game that gives the stupid notion of 'souls' any air, especially not one whose entire setting is rooted in the concept.

 

Is this designed to be a religious game, Obsidian? Can you just straight-up tell us that you're catering to your highly-religious American kin?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Krezack

[Ieo]

As an atheist it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least name?

 

I'm atheist too, but I've studied some world religion and have many friends across different ones so my view is a bit different.

 

I personally treat "soul" as a spiritually secular thing--there are plenty of NON-religions (one can view that as "spiritualities" or philosophies) that adopt the concept of a soul, though the behavior and nature of 'soul' may differ among them. For example, Buddhism is a nontheist philosophy "religion," but it certainly revolves around a concept of soul.

 

This is in opposition to actual gods in the world and in PE's world. I see "soul" and godly religion as separate things, and gods certainly I treat as fantasy both here and in-game. Did you feel offended that PE would have gods at all? (If yes, you probably shouldn't back this... Just sayin'.)

[Osvir]

As somebody who is non-religious it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least a less irrational name?

 

I do not want to play a game that gives the stupid notion of 'souls' any air, especially not one whose entire setting is rooted in the concept.

 

Is this designed to be a religious game, Obsidian? Can you just straight-up tell us that you're catering to your highly-religious American kin?

 

Eeeeh, want to discuss, feel I shouldn't discuss, I'll just say "Not interested in discussing Religion"...

 

In some weird way I want to ask Obsidian Forums (Moderators/Developers w/e) for permission to talk about Religion here xD can I? (I'm non-religious so don't expect me being a Missionary of any sort... the topic of real life Religion could benefit thoughts on Souls in the game).

 

EDIT: More importantly, out of respect for those that might be religious, I want to ask you

Edited October 6, 2012 by Osvir

[Ieo]

As somebody who is non-religious it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least a less irrational name?

 

I do not want to play a game that gives the stupid notion of 'souls' any air, especially not one whose entire setting is rooted in the concept.

 

Is this designed to be a religious game, Obsidian? Can you just straight-up tell us that you're catering to your highly-religious American kin?

 

Eeeeh, want to discuss, feel I shouldn't discuss, I'll just say "Not interested in discussing Religion"...

 

In some weird way I want to ask Obsidian Forums (Moderators/Developers w/e) for permission to talk about Religion xD can I? (I'm non-religious so don't expect me being a Missionary of any sort... the topic of real life Religion could benefit thoughts on Souls in the game).

 

Such discussions tread a very fine line to breaking forum rules:

 

Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.

 

It's my recommendation that we try to steer clear of that when possible.

 

Edit: Well, academic informational discussion should be fine but only in third person--the way Krezack framed his opinion would basically be the firestarter.

 

P.S.: I don't see why you can't exercise suspension of disbelief for this as you would for a magic system.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Ieo

[NerdBoner]

I think the soul is a great way to hook into a sequel...transmigration anyone?

 

 

As somebody who is non-religious it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least a less irrational name?

 

I do not want to play a game that gives the stupid notion of 'souls' any air, especially not one whose entire setting is rooted in the concept.

 

Is this designed to be a religious game, Obsidian? Can you just straight-up tell us that you're catering to your highly-religious American kin?

...oh god...

 

this is why I keep my geek interests private, so I'm not in any way associated with morons like this...

 

 

it's a fantasy setting jackass!

Edited October 6, 2012 by NerdBoner

[Osvir]

Edit: Well, academic informational discussion should be fine but only in third person--the way Krezack framed his opinion would basically the firestarter.

 

P.S.: I don't see why you can't exercise suspension of disbelief for this as you would for a magic system.

 

Yes. Well, the problem I believe is that even an academic informational discussion could possibly turn into a firestarter too.

Faith is kind of like "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Baldur's Gate". Some prefer to pray in their way, some in another way.

 

If I would say I prefer Dragon Age: Origins over Baldur's Gate I'm sure... something... would happen? I guess.. it's a good example (and demonstration?).....?

 

*waits for it*

[Ieo]

Edit: Well, academic informational discussion should be fine but only in third person--the way Krezack framed his opinion would basically the firestarter.

 

P.S.: I don't see why you can't exercise suspension of disbelief for this as you would for a magic system.

 

Yes. Well, the problem I believe is that even an academic informational discussion could possibly turn into a firestarter too.

Faith is kind of like "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Baldur's Gate". Some prefer to pray in their way, some in another way.

 

If I would say I prefer Dragon Age: Origins over Baldur's Gate I'm sure... something... would happen? I guess.. it's a good example (and demonstration?).....?

 

*waits for it*

 

Heh.

Hm, the Chantry. I don't even remember it very well--I was pretty 'meh' about DA:O so I tried to scrub it from my brain.

 

Rather, I'm quite interested to see exactly how "soul," like a spiritual power bladder (lol), interacts with the mechanics alongside major narrative---not interested in the latter because that's all spoilery stuff.

[Osvir]

Rather, I'm quite interested to see exactly how "soul," like a spiritual power bladder (lol), interacts with the mechanics alongside major narrative---not interested in the latter because that's all spoilery stuff.

 

Same.

 

EDIT: My computer did freeze after I posted the previous post though. An omen?

 

I can't really wrap my head around it. Philosophically yes (lore, I can think of lots of stuff), but mechanically? I'm at a loss. My preference, or what I would like to see, is an improved Magic system akin to that of the Sorcerer in Baldur's Gate for all Magic/Mage's.

 

But apart from that, how does the Soul tie in? What is the purpose of the soul? "What is the meaning of life!?" xD haha

Someone mentioned something about "sickness" if casting spells/using abilities (an idea from one of the forum posters here). If you draw on power's of your own Soul, you would be at a disadvantage. I kind of like that idea.

 

P.S.

For the heck of it (and I don't really want to start anything), I really don't prefer Dragon Age: Origins over Baldur's Gate. I prefer good games (separating them, not comparing them with each other, I feel that both games are great. I had so much fun with DA:O, I had so much fun with BG too).

Edited October 6, 2012 by Osvir

[rjshae]

Jokes aside, a soul in this setting might be something connected with the world-origin story. The lore we've read thus far suggests they keep manifesting in physical bodies and can become broken along the way, but that implies an origin earlier than humankind and the other races. Hence, they may have been created by the gods, who allow them to periodically take physical form along the way. Speculating further, PE souls may actually be an expression of a deeper reality while the physical world is just a mapping of shape and form onto that reality. That is, souls occupy dimensions that are not apparent to the normal senses. Mayhap, when we dream, we linger for a time in that deeper reality where we see the various realms of possibility.

 

Does that sound plausible?

[Humodour]

I think the soul is a great way to hook into a sequel...transmigration anyone?

 

 

As somebody who is non-religious it actually kind of ****s me to see them putting 'soul' bull**** in the game.

 

Surely they could have thought of a more intelligent system, or at least a less irrational name?

 

I do not want to play a game that gives the stupid notion of 'souls' any air, especially not one whose entire setting is rooted in the concept.

 

Is this designed to be a religious game, Obsidian? Can you just straight-up tell us that you're catering to your highly-religious American kin?

...oh god...

 

this is why I keep my geek interests private, so I'm not in any way associated with morons like this...

 

 

it's a fantasy setting jackass!

 

Says the guy who wants the game to be full of scantily-clad women.

 

Yeah. OK.

[Aldereth]

It's made of little bacteria called midichloria mitrochonrii. They surround us, penetrate us, and bind the universe together.

 

Why open up this old wound and rub salt on it. You evil, evil man