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The Nexus

Query: Optional "ARPG" controls?

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Hello everyone! I don't like introductions so I'll just get right to the point :)

 

The main reason I couldn't get into Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale was the control method. I loved the setting and absolutely adored the story, even the little that I played of it. I just didn't like the floatiness of having to move the camera and the characters separately, plus the auto-attacks. Personally it didn't immerse me at all, quite the opposite actually. I understand that it wasn't their fault, they had severe hardware limitations compared to what we can do today. I don't know, maybe I'm just to young to understand the charm of it.

 

Something else I didn't quite like was the immense size of the party in those games. I understand that it made it a lot more tactical, and I appreciate that, but a lot of the time in certain games, having too many party members with you at all times makes your character feel insignificant. It's what I hated about DA:O, my warrior was nothing special aside from his title. So when Obsidian announced that Eternity would allow you to take as many members with you as you pleased, or go alone, I was overjoyed.

 

But why not take it a step further?

 

So my suggestion is this: Why not add an OPTIONAL control method? Something akin to Diablo or Torchlight. Holding in the mouse button to move instead of just individual clicks, individual clicks instead of auto-attacking, activating abilities with the keyboard etc. This, atleast to me, makes me feel like I'm in control of my character. Again, I'm not suggesting that Obsidian replaces the current system, because so many people love that system. I'm simply asking for an alternative control method activated in the options menu. I don't think this would change the core of the gameplay, since you would still be able to pause and switch between party members. There could be an option to make your party follow you when you walk with your selected party member, like in Dragon Age.

 

Now, I'm no programmer, but I don't think this would be too hard to implement. It would basically be tweaking to the way the mouse controls your walk and disabling auto attack to make it click based instead. Besides, the camera is already isometric, so it wouldn't change the way you view the battlefield. Only the way the camera follows the character, to keep him in the center. Maybe during pause mode the camera could "unhinge"? Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this though, as I said, I'm not a professional.

 

I will say it a third time: I'm not suggesting that you switch the current system, I'm just looking for an alternative to what we have :)

 

This could also become one of the stretch goals if you don't have the necessary room in the current budget to pull this off.

 

Comment and give me feedback on this suggestion please :)

 

(If you got the reference in the title, you are awesome)

Edited by The Nexus

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Hmm... I'm pretty sure this isn't going to happen.

 

Disabling auto-attack doesn't make much sense for example. The reason you don't have auto-attack in games like Diablo is because you are normally spending most of your time using specific abilities. This kind of game is fairly different as you have your auto-attack as your 'standard attack' which you supplement it with additional abilities every now and then.


. Well I was involved anyway. The dude who can't dance. 

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there really isn't much reason not to include a camera lock option honestly. The control changes I wouldn't expect to see

Edited by ogrezilla

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there really isn't much reason not to include a camera lock option honestly. The control changes I wouldn't expect to see

 

This. IE could already do this, but it was only used to control the camera in cutscenes (like the dream sequences in BG2). Not that I would use it, but it's no trouble to implement a switch for it.

 

(If you got the reference in the title, you are awesome)

 

I'm quite sure most of the meatbags in here have played kotor =P

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I'm not trolling -.-, how could this be a troll post?

because you have a different opinion than they do. you mentioned action RPGs in a positive light. Just be happy you didn't suggest anything like an MMO.

 

I'm serious. that's why.

 

really though, I do hope some of the newer camera options and keyboard controls are implemented. I hate not having a key to center my screen on different characters. Maybe some of the games had that, I don't remember. I know PST and IWD don't seem to. Holding in the mouse to continuously move makes sense too. I wouldn't hold my breath about the auto attack thing.

Edited by ogrezilla
  • Like 2

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I'm not trolling -.-, how could this be a troll post?

because you have a different opinion than they do. you mentioned action RPGs in a positive light. Just be happy you didn't suggest anything like an MMO.

 

I loved Times of Lore for the C64 - one of the first games I played where you could kill NPCs (including quest givers, making it impossible to continue on). Nothing wrong with action role playing games, IMO.

 

That said when I first played Baldur's Gate (the first PC game I'd played in a long, long time) I couldn't figure out how to move the characters for some time. Oops! Once I got used to it I had no problem. It was also relatively easy to highlight the party and move them all as a group, so once I got the hang of it, it was fine.

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I'm not trolling -.-, how could this be a troll post?

because you have a different opinion than they do. you mentioned action RPGs in a positive light. Just be happy you didn't suggest anything like an MMO.

 

I loved Times of Lore for the C64 - one of the first games I played where you could kill NPCs (including quest givers, making it impossible to continue on). Nothing wrong with action role playing games, IMO.

 

That said when I first played Baldur's Gate (the first PC game I'd played in a long, long time) I couldn't figure out how to move the characters for some time. Oops! Once I got used to it I had no problem. It was also relatively easy to highlight the party and move them all as a group, so once I got the hang of it, it was fine.

I had played Warcraft before any of the IE games, so I was good to go with movement. It was everything else that confused me because I'd never played any sort of D&D beforehand and my RPG experience was Final Fantasy games.

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I don't see what the problem is to be honest, if Obsidian doesn't want to do it, fine, but this is a suggestion for an OPTIONAL feature, exactly what is negative about it, is there any reason for them NOT to do it? Because I see none, and you guys haven't presented me with one.

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I don't see what the problem is to be honest, if Obsidian doesn't want to do it, fine, but this is a suggestion for an OPTIONAL feature, exactly what is negative about it, is there any reason for them NOT to do it? Because I see none, and you guys haven't presented me with one.

 

I think the only issue (assuming optional) would be if doing it wasn't easy (thus needing time/development/resources) to implement. And I don't think any of us can answer that.

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No idea how difficult it would be to code in. One thing I can think of with click-to-attack is, well, given the combat rules, the speed of your attack would be exactly the same no matter how fast you clicked, or whether you left it to auto-click. So.... what you'd actually be doing is replacing 50 clicks with 1 click, but not actually changing anythinjg about your guy attacking (unless you wanted to attack less frequently). Another thing is the perspective. KOTOR provided such 'action' controls, as did NWN, but that's because the 'default' camera view was tilted a lot closer to a 3rd person over-the-shoulder cam.

 

Anyway, yeah, I guess the main thing is if all you did was keep IE-style in everything then just added WASD controls, sure, you could, but only very few people would actually appreciate it.

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Outside of original Diablo, even D2 added in a hold-click to attack. Which... I mean its a suppliment for auto-attack in a game where you only control 1 thing and need to move around that single character then control a party of.. generally more then 1. I definitely get the 'hold click' to move and whatnot, PST actually had a camera lock to selected character but that just felt bad in those games to me. That said some kinda hold-click to move and have camera/party sort of follow along I think would work if they got it down right.

 

I think the OP is actually rather reasonable outside of click-to-attack constantly. Again that was literally a Diablo original that they half-dropped like a sack of moldy potatos with D2. You still get folks spaz-clicking like they hate there fingers but what're ya gonna do. Either way, it just wouldn't work very well since you are controlling more then 1 person. As for party size you don't actually have to have 6. I often only had about 4, sometimes 5 in those games. Was rare for me to talk around with a full 6. Part of that was XP gain just kinda flowed better when it wasn't split 6 ways but either way, it tends to support having a lower party just fine.

 

And hey, plenty of people managed to solo run em but I feel that kinda... I mean going through BG2 completely solo and never having the companions around is like watching a movie with the sound off. Companions make up so much of that game, there reactions to stuff, the conversations they them selves would spark up. BG series in general, PST? I just can't see PST with out Morte, or Annah. I get the challenge aspect of it if you've played through a few times and just wanna manage solo, but first few times? Insanity I say, insanity!

Edited by Adhin

Def Con: kills owls dead

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In theory it could make an useful feature. Not to make a Diablo controls, but eg. to move multiple characters simultaneously in one direction without changing their formation. The idea of Diablo- like attacks in a game similar to Infinity games is, however, complete nonsense. With a little luck maybe also incompatible with the combat mechanics.

 

edit:

My previous graphical depictions of what I think about OP suggestion were eaten by a dragon, so I must write it once again.

 

I completely disagree with what OP wrote. I assume he has either terribily bad taste or writes here with very, very bad intentions.

 

Besides, I admire the moderator and his efforts to keep this place clean from any impurity, he's like a mythic titan holding the heaven. Were I

woman, I'd love to have children with him.

Edited by Flying Magician
Roar angry

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What's wrong with move camera -> click -> move camera -> click?

 

Why does it have to be clickety -> click -> click -> click -> click -> hold -> drag -> click -> what the hell is wrong with this fricken mouse -> click?

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I have to say, I love the League of Legends option of holding in spacebar to keep the camera locked, but having it free any other time. I would great appreciate that feature. Since we have multiple characters, just have it center on the highest ordered character we have selected. If nobody is selected, have it go to the PC.

 

I'd also love a minimap that you can click to place the camera. Wouldn't let you see anything you couldn't normally see, just as an easy way to move the camera to different parts of the map.

Edited by ogrezilla
  • Like 1

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I have to say, I love the League of Legends option of holding in spacebar to keep the camera locked, but having it free any other time. I would great appreciate that feature. Since we have multiple characters, just have it center on the highest ordered character we have selected. If nobody is selected, have it go to the PC.

 

I'd also love a minimap that you can click to place the camera. Wouldn't let you see anything you couldn't normally see, just as an easy way to move the camera to different parts of the map.

 

Playing a really good game in League of Legends, it was flowing, I was rocking, afterwards just simply satisfied. Began playing Baldur's Gate multiplayer session with my friend and told him "Man, Baldur's Gate Story/Atmosphere/Depth with League of Legends gameplay would be awesome" he agreed "That would be awesome".

 

I am not suggesting anything here, just re-telling a story. But if done right, balanced and authentically to the IE old-school games (so that it doesn't overlap into a generic Diablo/Torchlight game), that would be awesome.

  • Like 1

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In general, I think control schemes and UI are the biggest advancements that would be able to improve the old IE games at this point.

 

Given there is a Hotkey customization you can bet QWER (if not factory default) will be found on my control scheme.

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In theory it could make an useful feature. Not to make a Diablo controls, but eg. to move multiple characters simultaneously in one direction without changing their formation. The idea of Diablo- like attacks in a game similar to Infinity games is, however, complete nonsense. With a little luck maybe also incompatible with the combat mechanics.

 

edit:

My previous graphical depictions of what I think about OP suggestion were eaten by a dragon, so I must write it once again.

 

I completely disagree with what OP wrote. I assume he has either terribily bad taste or writes here with very, very bad intentions.

 

Besides, I admire the moderator and his efforts to keep this place clean from any impurity, he's like a mythic titan holding the heaven. Were I

woman, I'd love to have children with him.

No, I don't write here with "bad intentions", and taste is entirerly subjective. The click to attack thing was covered by someone on page one, saying that it would screw with the attack speed, I hadn't accounted for that, which makes my suggestion in retrospect rather silly. I'd still like to move by simply holding the mouse though. Besides all that though, what you said was completely uncalled for, I would have thought the Obsidian forums would be a bit friendlier than your average forum. You can disagree however you like, just keep the personal attacks against "my taste" out of it.

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